[Archived] Election

[thenodrog]

Dear Gordon

You admit "politicians and politics leave you cold" and you also claim not to vote so excuse me if I treat your Tory rantings with a large barrel of salt.

Here's something for you to mull over with your mates on the 19th hole as Labour extend their lead yet again in the latest polls.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

You have a remarkeable ability to airily ignore anything that is at odds to your thought processes. Anyway that pollings probably skewed given that we are only a few months into a new democratically elected government. If it isn't skewed then it's high time to take the vote away from non tax payers.

[FourLaneBlue]

'Odie' Millibands screwed up again. Does he ever stop to think before he opens his mouth?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/8302479/Ed-Miliband-young-have-it-harder-than-parents.html

Surely he must be aware that the kids leaving school this year were 3 when Blair's New Labour swept into power whereas their parents would have been leaving school in the mid 70's and been fortunate to have reaped the benefits and enjoyed the results and opportunities forged early in their careers by Margaret Thatcher's government.

Alan Milburn's words best highlight the counter productive conflicts generated during New Labour's period of office. A lesson to his colleagues (on both sides of the mace) in honesty and humility.

Alan Milburn, the former Labour cabinet minister who is advising the Coalition on social mobility, said last week that “clarity and consistency” had to be the foundations on which progress was achieved.

“For all of our good intentions — and many ground-breaking initiatives — Labour in government did not have sufficient of either. At some points the priority was social mobility, at others the eradication of poverty. Tony Blair spoke to aspiration, Gordon Brown spoke of equality,” he said. “But we failed to accurately define what we were trying to achieve – in part because we seemed to be pursuing two notions simultaneously and sometimes independently: one was equality of opportunity, the other equality of outcome.”

How is that messing up?

Surely it is better to address such a problem, regardless of whose watch it has been getting worse under, rather than putting their heads in the sand and ignoring it? Surely social mobility should be a cross-party concern? Seeing as we now have two parties in government, these are the perfect times to try and get all parties singing from the same hymn sheet on certain issues rather than constantly sniping and shouting down the opposition.

As it happens, social mobility has been progressively worsening since 1958. That period since covers many governments of both red and blue.

It seems to me too much of politics is the blame game, rather than concentrating how to make things better. No wonder so many voters cannot be bothered to vote...

[JAL]

Can anyone see the top end reducing their pay and bonuses, as I certainly cant.

So what is exactly the point of these cuts seems pretty transparent if the top end are unwilling to significantly reduce their pay and bonuses.

Looks like we will end up bust and everyone blaming each other.

with no moral or courageous leaders in our country then it looks like a one way ticket for more trouble.

Screwing you, screwing me, from the right honourable gentleman from every political party.

[thenodrog]

Screwing you, screwing me, from the right honourable gentleman from every political party.

Exactly JAL. btw Are you plagiarising Abba there?

To reply in similar vein ..... Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

The only advice that I can offer is ..... if you can't beat them then join them.

[JAL]

Hope jim mk2 was watching, cringing, at his man Jack Straw showing his true 'in it together' colours, over prisoner rights to vote this week in parliament.

[thenodrog]

Hope jim mk2 was watching, cringing, at his man Jack Straw showing his true 'in it together' colours, over prisoner rights to vote this week in parliament.

I'm struggling to comprehend why the right of scroats to vote is even being discussed. Europe can go and swivel.

1. People who are in the nick should have forfeited most of their rights.

2. There are far more important issues to debate.

[adopted scouser]

To reply in similar vein ..... Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

Using that quote in a thread about a bunch of Talking Heads, genius.

Won't be long before another one can be employed around the situation in Egypt.

[thenodrog]

Using that quote in a thread about a bunch of Talking Heads, genius.

Well spotted Nick.

....... wish it had been intentional.

[JAL]

I'm struggling to comprehend why the right of scroats to vote is even being discussed. Europe can go and swivel.

1. People who are in the nick should have forfeited most of their rights.

2. There are far more important issues to debate.

Europe is the saviour for the ordinary man, woman, and child in the UK Thenodrog.

For us, the UK, to come out of Europe, will only expose ordinary men, women and children to something that will be far more intolerable towards them.....from here within the corridors of power in the UK.

[thenodrog]

Hard on the heels of the daft human rights / convicts right to vote we are now to have another abomination forced on us.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12476979.

I've said before that voting is now virtually pointless as whatever govt we elect is unable to govern as we would reasonably expect. So many decisions are made elsewhere it's ludicrous.

[Ozz]

The latest growth predictions are apparently a sign that M King is considering moving the interest rate up next month. That surely would complete the end of any chance of a recovery? Inflation on the rise, but mainly due to VAT and petrol prices, both under control of the govt.

[JAL]

Hard on the heels of the daft human rights / convicts right to vote we are now to have another abomination forced on us.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12476979.

I've said before that voting is now virtually pointless as whatever govt we elect is unable to govern as we would reasonably expect. So many decisions are made elsewhere it's ludicrous.

So why was the right to vote for prisoners so important for Parliament to rally together, when we are told the prison population is only around the 100,000 mark with about ten per cent supposedly non UK nationals. These would have be thrown into a voting population of around 40million so surely the impact here would have been very minimal.

Something isnt right here and its not the right to stop them the prisoners voting so just what is the motive behind this when as you pointed out there are far more important things to debate .

[den]

Clegg forgot he was in charge

Well, what exactly is he paid for?

It really doesn't go down well in the current climate, that he seemingly gets very well paid for doing very little.

[joey_big_nose]

How is that messing up?

Surely it is better to address such a problem, regardless of whose watch it has been getting worse under, rather than putting their heads in the sand and ignoring it? Surely social mobility should be a cross-party concern? Seeing as we now have two parties in government, these are the perfect times to try and get all parties singing from the same hymn sheet on certain issues rather than constantly sniping and shouting down the opposition.

As it happens, social mobility has been progressively worsening since 1958. That period since covers many governments of both red and blue.

It seems to me too much of politics is the blame game, rather than concentrating how to make things better. No wonder so many voters cannot be bothered to vote...

Totally agree with this. Declining social mobility is a major issue and one that effects both the rich and the poor. A dividing society does no one any good as itp romotes divisive and conflicting interests that can eventually have dire results.

As for the blame game I agree. But a large part of it is, in my opinion, not so much to do with the politicians but a prevailing atmosphere of public cynacism which does not really match up with the situation. There have been moments of political exploitation - the expenses scandal, the iraq invasion, the poll tax, the winter of discontent and its aftermath - and these are sad bits of history and are justly reviled.

However if you balance these failures against the successes - rising standards of living, huge increases in disposable wealth, freedoms of right, lack of conscripted armed conflict, peaceful end of the cold war, (hopefully) a resolution of the Northern Ireland question, increasing life expectancy, creation of the welfare state - then for the public to be so suspicious and disenchanted with the system that has provided the whole infrastructure of our highly developed and frankly dizzingly luxurious society (if you view it in a historical or global context) does just not make sense. It is out of proportion.

My personal opinion is that is loud dominant highly negative commentators in the press - similar in tenor to Jim and Thenodrog - who only care to attack and (very rarely) praise on a partisan basis that drive this cynacism and the blame game. Once the atmosphere is such then the politicians have to play to it, although certainly they have had their hand in it also, and it saps hope and ambition needlessly from the voters.

Sad.

[jim mk2]

Rovers aren't playing tomorrow so It's a great opportunity to get down to London and back another worthy cause - fighting this government.

March For The Alternative is a march through the capital starting at 11am on Victoria embankment to Hyde Park where there will be a rally from about 1.30pm including a number of speakers including Ed Miliband.

Details are here

www.falseeconomy.org.uk and www.tuc.org.uk/march

Time to stand and fight the unnecessary and unfair spending cuts and support Robin Hood taxes on banks and the super rich, the closing of tax loopholes and allowances, and policies for jobs and green growth.

This future of this country matters and there is an alternative to the Tory slash and burn.

Please be there.

[Paul]

Please be there.

Will you be? That's a real question not a sly remark.

[thenodrog]

Will you be? That's a real question not a sly remark.

I very much doubt it Paul.... He posts on here when Rovers are playing at home so I don't believe that he goes to Ewood these days.

btw Jim... 9 months into the new coalition govt 'Odie' Miliband's been criticising them today for all he's worth. I'd love to know what Labour would have done now that in Liam Byrnes parting note "all the money's gone". Note that Odie offers only criticism and no solutions for the mess his party left us in.

[jim mk2]

Will you be? That's a real question not a sly remark.

Certainly.

To reply to Tory Gordon's sly remark, Labour saved Britain's economy from the combined effects of the worldwide recession and the collapse of the banks as he well knows.

Their solutions to the public deficit are widely available on the internet but the clues are in my post above.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Certainly.

To reply to Tory Gordon's sly remark, Labour saved Britain's economy from the combined effects of the worldwide recession and the collapse of the banks as he well knows.

Their solutions to the public deficit are widely available on the internet but the clues are in my post above.

What a strange remark, I’m guessing you blame the last Tory government for the largest national black whole in the modern western world?

Funny that you are now championing robin hood taxes and taxing the rich? How is it your tribe did nothing to reclaim these monies during their 13 years in power.

Also it was your tribe who bailed out the banks and forgot to attach any meaningful terms and conditions.

[thenodrog]

What a strange remark, Im guessing you blame the last Tory government for the largest national black whole in the modern western world?

Funny that you are now championing robin hood taxes and taxing the rich? How is it your tribe did nothing to reclaim these monies during their 13 years in power.

Also it was your tribe who bailed out the banks and forgot to attach any meaningful terms and conditions.

Easy boy..... Don't you realise that those Labour types have a memory slightly shorter than that of the average goldfish?

The financial melt down that has set us so far back and has sentenced our children to a life of pay back occurred after 11 years of Labour misrule of which 10 of those saw us under the control of the best Chancellor that the world has ever seen. Ever.

btw... Anybody seen if Jim is chained to railings somewhere or maybe even throwing fire extinguishers from rooftops? My money's on him watching the Football and cricket on his sofa in the old folks home whilst dunking hobnobs in his tea.

[thenodrog]

Will you be there? That's a real question not a sly remark.

Certainly.

btw... Anybody seen if Jim is chained to railings somewhere or maybe even throwing fire extinguishers from rooftops? My money's on him watching the Football and cricket on his sofa in the old folks home whilst dunking hobnobs in his tea.

Good grief! The very next thread that I read and Jim's posting at 1.44pm!!! What a bloody fraud you are Jim.... or was this sent from your blackberry? Wassup Jimbo? Nursey taken your zimmer off you?

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/24384-call-me-thick-p/page__view__findpost__p__1041630

[jim mk2]

New technology, Gordon. Not reached Pleasington golf club yet ?

Great day today, special train, more than 500,000 from all walks of life on the streets in a march that will begin the movement that will remove this government from office. The right wing will sneer but protest works. Could write a thousand words but it's been a long, long day.

Sent via pigeon post.

[jim mk2]

I'm guessing you blame the last Tory government for the largest national black whole in the modern western world?

Funny that you are now championing robin hood taxes and taxing the rich? How is it your tribe did nothing to reclaim these monies during their 13 years in power.

Also it was your tribe who bailed out the banks and forgot to attach any meaningful terms and conditions.

The "black hole" was caused by the collapse in tax receipts from the worldwide recession caused by the financial / banking crisis of 2007 - 9. This has been explained many times before.

Labour raised the top rate to 50 per cent - not high enough in view of the damage caused by the wealthy and greedy.

The bonus culture continues in the banks which is an indictment of all governments.

[sambo]

Not huge on all this political debate on here due to the snide, boring and 'us v them' nature of it, but I found Miliband's comments today, comparing the protests to the civil rights and apartheid marches baffling, and insulting to those involved at those times.

I'm rubbish at the political stuff. I'm at university, got two sisters and a Brother, my Mum works full time as a nursery nurse earning 13,000 a year raising us on her own. What consequence will the cuts have on me and my family? Struggling to link it all to my situation, as I don't deal with bills and such like. Will the budget leave us better or worse off?

Sorry if I seem stupid

[thenodrog]

New technology, Gordon. Not reached Pleasington golf club yet ?

Great day today, special train, more than 500,000 from all walks of life on the streets in a march that will begin the movement that will remove this government from office. The right wing will sneer but protest works. Could write a thousand words but it's been a long, long day.

Sent via pigeon post.

Packed your red flag and lump hammer away till the next time have you Jim? Card holding member of Network X are you? Go on be honest you never left the front room did you? Anyway here's a report and piccy of what you are busy condoning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8409263/TUC-march-The-militants-behind-the-violence.html

Just as an aside why are you so against the principles of democracy?