[Archived] Election

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Great day today, special train, more than 500,000 from all walks of life on the streets in a march that will begin the movement that will remove this government from office. The right wing will sneer but protest works. Could write a thousand words but it's been a long, long day.

Im embarresed to be a public servant today

[broadsword]

The "black hole" was caused by the collapse in tax receipts from the worldwide recession caused by the financial / banking crisis of 2007 - 9. This has been explained many times before.

Labour raised the top rate to 50 per cent - not high enough in view of the damage caused by the wealthy and greedy.

If it's been explained many times before and people still don't believe it then it obviously lacks credibility.

Wealthy and greedy people ... like Tony Blair?

[adopted scouser]

Wealthy and greedy people ... like Tony Blair?

Exactly Bryan, but don't get Fred riled or he'll throw his teeth at you

So many jibes from the nursing home about Cameron's image, you know the thing - snobby, chinless, snooty public school boy (ermm, what do you make of Ed Milliband then ?)

Labour politicians are honourable and men of principle, not like the devious and evil conservatives. How is Lord Prescott these days ?

[thenodrog]

Wealthy and greedy??? Anybody know the score of the MP's charged with fraud? I'd imagine it's pretty much equal across all parties is it?

[jim mk2]

Im embarresed to be a public servant today

Why embarrassed ?

Half a million nurses, teachers, council staff, NHS workers, other public sector employees, pensioners, students and other campaign groups took part in the biggest union-organised protest for a generation to express their peaceful but powerful opposition to the government's deep, rapid and unfair spending cuts.

It was a good-natured and friendly event with small children and babies in prams, and lots of marchers sitting down having picnics, and the actions of afew "fascist agitators" (a "nasty bunch of black-shirted thugs'' according to London deputy mayor Kit Malthouse), did not detract from a democratic demonstration against policies that neither of the coalition parties put before the electorate at the last election.

Tories will ridicule and mock as can be seen by the inane comments of the lumpen Thatcherite right above but the protests are a legitimate way of showing the country that there is a better and fairer alternative to the cuts.

[rebelmswar]

Why embarrassed ?

Half a million nurses, teachers, council staff, NHS workers, other public sector employees, pensioners, students and other campaign groups took part in the biggest union-organised protest for a generation to express their peaceful but powerful opposition to the government's deep, rapid and unfair spending cuts.

It was a good-natured and friendly event with small children and babies in prams, and lots of marchers sitting down having picnics, and the actions of afew "fascist agitators" (a "nasty bunch of black-shirted thugs'' according to London deputy mayor Kit Malthouse), did not detract from a democratic demonstration against policies that neither of the coalition parties put before the electorate at the last election.

Tories will ridicule and mock as can be seen by the inane comments of the lumpen Thatcherite right above but the protests are a legitimate way of showing the country that there is a better and fairer alternative to the cuts.

Read something very similar to that from the 70's Soviet Union.

Down to the babies in prams.

[adopted scouser]

Trained police standing back while scum commit criminal damage. What has happened to this country ??

[Rover Down Under]

Trained police standing back while scum commit criminal damage. What has happened to this country ??

The behaviour of the police was utterly abysmal and cringeworthy.

What happened to a good ol' skull cracking, a heavy truncheon to the kneecaps and 48 hours on an overcrowded cell floor soaking in the urine of the 100's of other Commie-thug cellmates? Wait let me guess...Labour introduced OHS directives meaning police can only carry paper mache truncheons and not lift them higher than their waist and then ensured that any "victim" of police "brutality" could receive a million quid and a free house if they scraped their knee in a protest and the policeman would get 3 years and lose his job.

Why can't we enact a law to deport this scum to a sub-Saharan African or impoverished South-East Asian country and replace them with a family from those countries who would actually appreciate the extremely priveleged life we have in the West and contribute back to society instead of trying to rip it apart? Why do we choose to fund the endless breeding of brainless, moronic, retards whose only purpose is to seeth in bitterness and jealousy, fueled by a warped sense of entitlement and resulting in the rampant destruction of society? (It's rhetorical - I know the answer is so that Labour will have someone to vote for them.)

It's such a long time since I felt proud to be English I've actually forgotten what it feels like. People will dismiss it with the "it was just a small group" excuse - I remember hearing that in the 80's and 90's in reference to football hooliganism and I felt that same shameful feeling watching the news yesterday.

[Paul]

It's difficult. We live in a free and tolerant society where the vast majority behave in a civilised and acceptable manner. Sure people may upset each other through thoughtless actions, day to day irritations etc but generally we all rub aong quite happily. Then we have the extremes of society be they politically allied to the left or right, opposed to a religion or to certain religions, faiths etc. These small minorities frequently use langauge and words such as "hate," "scum," calling for violence to be used against those they disagree with, wishing them out of existence or at least out of sight.

Two things always strike me about this. On both sides the moment one begins to express hatred or to describe one's opponents in the language I'm reading in this thread and others one reveals oneself as no better than those one opposes. Any validity an arguement may hold is lost the moment one slips into this language as it reveals all the bias the user truely feels.

The other concern I have is the use of this word "hate." or similar expressions of feelings. When used towards people, faiths, religions, cultures it is, for me, incredibly strong. I think many who use it fail to understand the strength of this word and do not have the reason or life experience to appreciate it's meaning. I know I don't and I can truely say I don't hate anyone. I knew a man who hated, in the real sense, Jews, Russians and Germans. Coming from a very poor background in the Ukraine where Jews controlled all the money, he was taken from his family at 14-15 by the German army (Nazis if you like) and placed in Labour camps, after the war the threat of death prevented his return to the Ukraine, then Russians forcibly moved his entire village thousands of kilometres across the country. Very few people now alive in the UK, or the West I suppose, have such experience, have really suffered at the hands of those they profess to hate, those they describe as scum. We are very fortunate to live in a society free of such things; it doesn't make the actions of left or right wing extremists acceptable but needs to be put in perspective.

So the next time you feel like hating the scum you perceive in our society stop for a moment and consider if you have reason to hate. You might look at yourself using those words and consider how the rest of society reacts to such language.

[dave birch]

Well put, Paul.

I'd suggest though, that it's due to the watering down of the meaning of words in the English language.

[Paul]

I feel there is a lot in that Dave, in which case people should understand the meaning and passion of the words they use. Thinking before speaking.

[dave birch]

Can't disagree with you at all, Paul, however, our society these days seems to be based on who can get the upper hand, to be seen as superior.

I've got to the stage where, if someone wants to be the top dog, I'll let them, but quietly work at the way I want things to be.

[thenodrog]

Why can't we enact a law to deport this scum to a sub-Saharan African or impoverished South-East Asian country and replace them with a family from those countries who would actually appreciate the extremely priveleged life we have in the West and contribute back to society instead of trying to rip it apart? Why do we choose to fund the endless breeding of brainless, moronic, retards whose only purpose is to seeth in bitterness and jealousy, fueled by a warped sense of entitlement and resulting in the rampant destruction of society? (It's rhetorical - I know the answer is so that Labour will have someone to vote for them.)

It's certainly a problem. First we had the black death and a host of other fatal diseases, then we had Australia, then we had 2 epic world wars, now we have aids but unfortunately your average dolloper has survived em all. The likely answer imo will be conventional wars and civil wars based on global famine... and it's coming.

[thenodrog]

Just as an aside why are you so against the principles of democracy?

Tories will ridicule and mock as can be seen by the inane comments of the lumpen Thatcherite right above but the protests are a legitimate way of showing the country that there is a better and fairer alternative to the cuts.

You obviously have no answer as I anticipated. So let me answer for you. The truly legitimate way to do it is by way of a General Election? Remember we had one 9 months ago although you appear to have blotted it from your mind. Unfortunately your chums at Labour screwed it up by bankrupting the country, promising major spending cuts and losing the Gen Election. An outsider would almost swear they did it on purpose to get out of the hole they'd dug us all into.

Btw Speaking of which has Brown committed suicide by nicking a minor artery in one wrist and bleeding to death without leaving any bloodstains in the surrounding area somewhere miles from anywhere in the countryside? Somethings gone on cos he's completely disappeared from the radar.

[jim mk2]

The behaviour of the police was utterly abysmal and cringeworthy.

What happened to a good ol' skull cracking, a heavy truncheon to the kneecaps and 48 hours on an overcrowded cell floor soaking in the urine of the 100's of other Commie-thug cellmates?

It's such a long time since I felt proud to be English I've actually forgotten what it feels like. People will dismiss it with the "it was just a small group" excuse - I remember hearing that in the 80's and 90's in reference to football hooliganism and I felt that same shameful feeling watching the news yesterday.

"Good ol' skullcracking" took place during the miners strike in the 1980s when the Tories last declared war on the working class but thankfully even under this present government Britain is more pleasant place these days. Ted Croker famously asked Thatcher to "get her thugs ouf of our football grounds" which did nothing to endear him to the old bag but summed up alot of people's feelings about the 1980s underclass created by the Tories. The Tories are of course repeating the trick 25 years later by throwing another generation of youth on the employment scrapheap.

We used to send people with giant chips on their shoulders off to Australia and I'm glad to see you are carrying on that proud tradition.

[thenodrog]

We used to send people with giant chips on their shoulders off to Australia and I'm glad to see you are carrying on that proud tradition.

The irony is incredible!

[sparkspakespoke]

Trained police standing back while scum commit criminal damage. What has happened to this country ??

There is always an elment of scum who will jump on any cause, the damage was no reflection on the event, which I found to be peaceful in genral.

However you raise an interesting pint, how can we expect the police to put themselves in the firing line when a huge majority of them are going to be hugely affected by the cuts themselves?

There were quite a few off duty police there on Saturday joining in the protests, its a really diffcult situation.

Its a shame the story has become the damage a few morons did, they are the idots who jump on the back of any protest just looking for trouble. The story should be the huge ammount of public servants and concerned citizens that turned up to make their feelign known.

[jim mk2]

There is always an elment of scum who will jump on any cause, the damage was no reflection on the event, which I found to be peaceful in genral.

However you raise an interesting pint, how can we expect the police to put themselves in the firing line when a huge majority of them are going to be hugely affected by the cuts themselves?

There were quite a few off duty police there on Saturday joining in the protests, its a really diffcult situation.

Its a shame the story has become the damage a few morons did, they are the idots who jump on the back of any protest just looking for trouble. The story should be the huge ammount of public servants and concerned citizens that turned up to make their feelign known.

I was talking to a few off-duty policemen on the march and they are very angry about the cuts which they say is bound to lead to an increase in the crime rate that has been in decline over the past 13 years.

The story of Saturday of the peaceful and democratic fight against the cuts has not been lost despite the attempts of the hooligan elements.

[arachnica]

The Tories are of course repeating the trick 25 years later by throwing another generation of youth on the employment scrapheap.

Factcheck: Long term youth unemployment doubled under Labour between 2001 and 2010 after crashing down between 1992 and 2000. And that was in a boom economy. What a legacy.

[sparkspakespoke]

I was talking to a few off-duty policemen on the march and they are very angry about the cuts which they say is bound to lead to an increase in the crime rate that has been in decline over the past 13 years.

The story of Saturday of the peaceful and democratic fight against the cuts has not been lost despite the attempts of the hooligan elements.

I hope you're right Jim but it was disheartening to get home and see the BBc leading with "violence erupts at protests" as the storyline.

[broadsword]

However you raise an interesting pint, how can we expect the police to put themselves in the firing line when a huge majority of them are going to be hugely affected by the cuts themselves?

WHAT???????????????????????

That's outrageous, the Police are there to prevent public disorder, they were on duty at the time. It would be reprehensible if any of them held back just because they sympathised with the aims of the main protest. In fact, these people weren't genuine protesters, but likely as not, sad little public schoolboys who fancied a bit of aggro.

They're paid to get in the ###### firing line, so get in there and sort the ###### out. Don't hold back because of health and safety or similar namby-pamby concerns.

[jim mk2]

Factcheck: Long term youth unemployment doubled under Labour between 2001 and 2010 after crashing down between 1992 and 2000. And that was in a boom economy. What a legacy.

Factcheck: "Unemployment is a price worth paying". Norman Lamont's mantra. The Tory legacy of the 1980s revisited in 2011.

[thenodrog]

However you raise an interesting pint,

Cheers

[Rover Down Under]

Factcheck: Long term youth unemployment doubled under Labour between 2001 and 2010 after crashing down between 1992 and 2000. And that was in a boom economy. What a legacy.

Factcheck: Jim doesn't do facts, or knowledge for that matter, based on his all too typical and predictably inane, uncalled for, nasty and nonsensical comment on the settlement of Australia.

[jim mk2]

Factcheck: Your warped view of the world culminating in an unjustified attack on this country.

The behaviour of the police was utterly abysmal and cringeworthy.

What happened to a good ol' skull cracking, a heavy truncheon to the kneecaps and 48 hours on an overcrowded cell floor soaking in the urine of the 100's of other Commie-thug cellmates? Wait let me guess...Labour introduced OHS directives meaning police can only carry paper mache truncheons and not lift them higher than their waist and then ensured that any "victim" of police "brutality" could receive a million quid and a free house if they scraped their knee in a protest and the policeman would get 3 years and lose his job.

Why can't we enact a law to deport this scum to a sub-Saharan African or impoverished South-East Asian country and replace them with a family from those countries who would actually appreciate the extremely priveleged life we have in the West and contribute back to society instead of trying to rip it apart? Why do we choose to fund the endless breeding of brainless, moronic, retards whose only purpose is to seeth in bitterness and jealousy, fueled by a warped sense of entitlement and resulting in the rampant destruction of society? (It's rhetorical - I know the answer is so that Labour will have someone to vote for them.)

It's such a long time since I felt proud to be English I've actually forgotten what it feels like. People will dismiss it with the "it was just a small group" excuse - I remember hearing that in the 80's and 90's in reference to football hooliganism and I felt that same shameful feeling watching the news yesterday.