[Archived] Election

[SouthAussieRover]

If a Tory gets up your nose,picket.

If I could vote again to send the landed classes back to the stoneage I'd be over there in a flash.

Thatcher = the hatcher.

[thenodrog]

If I could vote again to send the landed classes back to the stoneage I'd be over there in a flash.

Thatcher = the hatcher.

1. Whats a hatcher?

2. I'd wager the proper aussies the aborigines would vote just as vehemently about sending you newcomers back in time too.

[Paul]

? Common sense?

Paul the message in these posts is somewhat contradictory. You advocate going in one direction in theory and in practice go the opposite way. Which way is it to be?

No they are not contradictory. In the first I was stating I like the idea of cancelling Trident and saving £100bn when the Labour and Conservative parties are arguing about saving £6bn. Now I admit I'm not sure if the contracts are already in place and it may well be that cancelling the Trident upgrade could severly damage the defence industry. IF the the upgrade is only at the planning stage I'd have thought putting it on hold an excellent idea. Basically we need big savings not tinkering, but without threatening public services or jobs.

In the second the point was what the Conservatives call efficiency savings are in fact job cuts, pure and simple. The point being we have outstanding public services in this country which have improved significantly in recent years. To cut jobs and reduce the effectiveness of these services would be a backward step.

Clearly we have to find savings in government spending, surely better to do this by cutting a nuclear weapons programme we don't need than by cutting jobs and public services?

[broadsword]

I think Cameron is on record as saying that he won't cut jobs, he'll not fill vacancies as theyt arise. I have no idea as to the budget savings this will generate or how realistic it is.

I would be interested to see the statistics for public sector recruitment and staff numbers for the last 13 years. And additionally, what the % is of "frontline" public sector workers - police, fire, medical, social workers, binmen etc compared to the total in the public sector. I'd be surprised if no cuts could be made with no loss of service quality.

PS: At some point Labour will have to stop spending and tackle the deficit. They've just postponed budget cuts until after the election.

[thenodrog]

PS: At some point Labour will have to stop spending and tackle the deficit. They've just postponed budget cuts until after the election.

Taxation will be the likely option should they win and the only people they can tax are the wealth makers. Criminal really isn't it?

It's funny cos I thought that we all hated Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham when we were kids yet it appears a significant number must have been rooting for em.

[koi]

The Ernst & Young ITEM Club, which uses the Treasury's economic model for its forecasts, said the immediate prospects for the UK were "dismal".

That's cheered me up no end! I've spent the last two days looking at what April has been like for us, I used the word dismal last night!

Oh well.

[jim mk2]

Item Club chief economist John Gaster is a professional doomster and usually gets his forecasts wrong. All the latest data show the economy expanding at a faster rate than our main EU rivals and that of Japan, boosting government tax receipts and helping to reduce the deficit even faster than forecast. Many, many people have become extremely rich under this Labour government and some, according to Gordon the Tory, have had a "good recession". It is right and fair that these people who have benefited from the economic good times under Labour should pay moderately higher taxes to help the economy to recover. After all, most of the "wealthmakers" are still in jobs or walked away with multimillion pound pay-offs unlike many of their former employees who have had to pay with the loss of their jobs for the consequences of their employers' greed.

[koi]

I hope he is wrong.

LINK

[thenodrog]

Item Club chief economist John Gaster is a professional doomster and usually gets his forecasts wrong. All the latest data show the economy expanding at a faster rate than our main EU rivals and that of Japan, boosting government tax receipts and helping to reduce the deficit even faster than forecast. Many, many people have become extremely rich under this Labour government and some, according to Gordon the Tory, have had a "good recession". It is right and fair that these people who have benefited from the economic good times under Labour should pay moderately higher taxes to help the economy to recover. After all, most of the "wealthmakers" are still in jobs or walked away with multimillion pound pay-offs unlike many of their former employees who have had to pay with the loss of their jobs for the consequences of their employers' greed.

I hope he is wrong.

LINK

Well he must be. One of em must be wrong and it can't be Jim mk2 can it?

[Kelbo]

I bothered to save rather than fritter my cash away, under this government, those investments have lost me £1,000s of pounds in interest, now for someone who has millions, how much will they have lost?

And remember, under labour, we pay the highest taxes in Europe!!

Thats why the trustees cant put any money into Rovers any more, there is little interest on their capital!

Intersestingly, once the election was called, the pound strengthend with expectations of Labour to be defeated.

Other countries have no faith in a labour government as they are renowned for borrowing and giving money away.

[Amo]

I don't see how anyone can vote Conservative. They care less about the working class than Labour do, and their stance on immigration is hysterical. Their stunts like capped immigration will appeal to those who believe all our woes are the work of (to quote Moe Syzlak) those nasty "immigants!" And David Cameron as the forefront of our country? Gaaah... It's enough to turn your stomach.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I don't see how anyone can vote Conservative. They care less about the working class than Labour do, and their stance on immigration is hysterical. Their stunts like capped immigration will appeal to those who believe all our woes are the work of (to quote Moe Syzlak) those nasty "immigants!" And David Cameron as the forefront of our country? Gaaah... It's enough to turn your stomach.

I don't see how anyone can vote for Lib Dem's. Regional immigration restrictions/limits that would be pretty much impossible to enforce, no replacement for trident when extremist countries like Iran are developing their own weapons, joining the Euro a complete farce that has been shown with the financial crises in many Eurozone countries and being part of a European army.

Some fickle voters out there watched one TV debate and like the salesman that is Clegg (something that people criticise Cameron for) but haven’t even looked at all at their policies.

It was in the papers at the weekend that Clegg is almost as popular as Churchill was in 1945 after the war, a complete Joke.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

The whole mantra of scrapping Trident on the basis of saving money is a somewhat contradictory policy. Yes it will initially make headlines, However, it doesnt take into account the 15-20,000 individuals that would lose their jobs and the fact that the sector (including R&D) contributes billions to the UKs economy.

Unfortunately ( the for anti-war brigade) the UK Arms sector massively contributes to wealth creation in our economy and keeps us on the political map, if the Lib Dems were honest, the argument they should be making on trident is ethical rather than economic.

A quick question ( and this is not rhetorical) if the UK did completely scrap its nuclear arsenal; what would happen to our permanent members seat at the UN?

[BuckyRover]

I like the fact that people seem to think that scrapping Trident will help cut the deficit (Bryan).

The savings won't be realised until 2016. Hardly going to help at the moment.

I think a hung parliament might be good, Brown still in charge and a run on the pound. The Tory's will be delighted that they didn't get elected. The next 5 years is going to be a car crash whoever is in charge.

[LeChuck]

Not sure that majority of people support nuclear weapons? I certainly don't, and I come from a town that would be severely effected if Trident was scrapped. They distanced themselves from joining the Euro a few years back by the way.

Increasing income tax thresholds to £10,000 and putting 'mansion tax' on properties above £2 million in value is going to appeal to a lot of people in the current climate, as will their more severe stance on the fallout from the expenses scandal.

I think the reason for the surge in popularity is that it's so damn difficult to vote for Cameron or Brown. As Topman states, the thought of Cameron leading our country makes my skin crawl. If the Lib Dems do end up having a major say in this election then it's completely down to the major failings of Labour and the Conservatives.

[Hughesy]

I think Cameron is on record as saying that he won't cut jobs, he'll not fill vacancies as theyt arise. I have no idea as to the budget savings this will generate or how realistic it is.

I'd be surprised if no cuts could be made with no loss of service quality.

If what he plans happens, then god help local authorities.....Tax payers wont be happy if their local services are cut will they? People will start to realise when their are no care workers to look after their elderly relations, or any bin men to come and clear up your trash....Cameron lives in his own bubble and needs to work out better policies than 'oh lets cut the public sector' etc.

One of the biggest cuts should be made to the NHS Admin.....they have masses of staff doing the same job, just in different locations when they could do it all in 1 central team - its crazy.

The NHS, Childrens Services & Adult Care all need linking together too - into 1 system, which the police would also link into! It would save them masses of money & it would also allow for natural wastage to go & their wouldnt be the same need to replace the admin functions of some organisation!!

I don't see how anyone can vote Conservative. They care less about the working class than Labour do, and their stance on immigration is hysterical. Their stunts like capped immigration will appeal to those who believe all our woes are the work of (to quote Moe Syzlak) those nasty "immigants!" And David Cameron as the forefront of our country? Gaaah... It's enough to turn your stomach.

Agree 100% - and as for their capped rules - how do they intend to make it work? You cant stop immigration as it has been shown for years!!

[Paul]

I bothered to save rather than fritter my cash away, under this government, those investments have lost me £1,000s of pounds in interest, now for someone who has millions, how much will they have lost?

But do you have a mortgage? How much does it cost you?

During the entire term of this government I haven't paid above 5% and that was always on a fix. Under the previous administration mortgage rates were constantly on the way up. You can't have cheap mortgages, which people want, and earn high interest on your savings, which everybody wants as well.

[koi]

The Trident reduction won't have any effect because it wouldn't happen, Clegg is using headline-grabbing figures. Amazingly, Labour have been very quick on this one, and I agree with what they say.

No one likes living with nuclear arms but you tell me the solution? Shall we and the rest of NATO nuclear nations give them up whilst rogue states such as Iran and N.Korea move ever closer to having them? And for those who say it'll never happen cast your mind back to the Falklands; the Navy was being down-sized at the time as a Naval battle was deemed unlikely. We don't know the future but whilst there's a risk we need the security.

Increasing the tax threshold sounds nice doesn't it? but what about those just above it? What about those who will be worse off if they work OT? The implications are massive and it will have a knock-on effect. Sure, no tax is a good vote winner and it'll attract those it's aimed at.

As someone mentioned earlier, whoever wins has a job on their hands there's no doubt about it.

[koi]

What people fail to grasp is that our public services have been funded with borrowed money, the government has been spending more than it's been taking since 2001. So yes, we have seen increased investment in our schools & hospitals but look at the cost - our debt is now double that of 1997 and is predicted to double again in the next 3-4 years. We having nothing left, it's a simple as that. The sooner we tackle the issue the sooner we can get back on track. It's painful of course but needed. Both the Labour and Lib Dem parties are proposing to spend their way out of it by using more borrowed money in order to make-up for the borrowed money they've used. The longer this goes on the more we will pay for it in the future. You think Greece & Ireland are in trouble, well just consider what is waiting for the UK.

[berkshireblue]

Good post. But be prepared for a slating from the loony right.

Jim - you appear to have a 1970;s 1980's fixation with stereotypes,I dont know your age but I presume its over 40yrs

You dont have to be right wing to agree with Conservative policies nor do you have to be left wing to agree with Labour, there appears to be only one extremist on here and that is you, your views are further left than left wing socialists which makes you looney left

[Amo]

I don't see how anyone can vote for Lib Dem's. Regional immigration restrictions/limits that would be pretty much impossible to enforce, no replacement for trident when extremist countries like Iran are developing their own weapons, joining the Euro a complete farce that has been shown with the financial crises in many Eurozone countries and being part of a European army.

Why would regional immigration be impossible? It works in other countries and would mean that immigrants can only work in places where they are needed.

[broadsword]

I like the fact that people seem to think that scrapping Trident will help cut the deficit (Bryan).

Eh?

[philipl]

There is a load of hype about Trident.

It is an American system sub-assembled in the UK operated by the RN who go around the bottom of the Atlantic bumping into the Frogs who have a somewhat more independent Frappe Nucleaire than we have.

We cannot even push the button without an OK from the US.

If we were to replace Trident with a like-for-like the spending commitments need to be factored into the deficit calculations because the numbers are so big. The UK is fortunate in that Treasury Bonds are long-dated. That is why making a decision now on cutting £100bn masturbatory spend on Trident replacement matters because it is a key influencer over the value of 2028 and 2034 bonds. If we are spending money on Trident rather than planning for when those huge bonds mature, then the risk on UK debt is seen as being much greater and the funding costs of Government debt today goes up.

On a separate note, here is a sideways argument for voting Lib Dem: It will nix Murdoch- if you believe a former Sun editor!

[jim mk2]

I bothered to save rather than fritter my cash away, under this government, those investments have lost me £1,000s of pounds in interest, now for someone who has millions, how much will they have lost?

And remember, under labour, we pay the highest taxes in Europe!!

You have a choice: low rates of interest on your savings and low inflation, or higher rates of interest and high inflation. Under Labour fortunately we have had 13 years of low inflation and high rates of economic growth that have made the country the prosperous place it is today.

With regard to taxes, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Netherlands, Austria and Belgium all have higher maximum personal income tax rates than Britain, Sweden, Portugal, Spain, Norway, France, Finland and Netherlands have higher corporate tax and Sweden, Slovenia, Austria, Croatia, Belgium, Czech Rep, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungary, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Russia and myriad others have higher rates of VAT.

Next.

[koi]

Taxation stats can be heavily manipulated. As Jim has found on Wikipedia, take the main taxes and we are average but start to add all the extras such as Road Tax, fuel duty, flight surcharge, inheritance tax, NI, council tax, Alcohol duty, stamp duty etc etc and the figures change considerably.