[Archived] Election

[cn174]

Yet more twisting of the facts from those on the right..

Doesn't that include the record number of people in higher education we have now?

By the way I'm not using the above as necessarily a brilliant thing since a lot of those are doing silly courses, but to come out with a statement like that ignores a massive amount of confounding factors, such as the number of students, the fact we most likely have a greater number of people working as carers than under Thatcher...

The current UNEMPLOYMENT rate right now is 2.5 million. The highest unemployment was under Thatcher was 4 million.

I think the number is somewhere between the two. There are 2.5m registered unemployed (i.e. claiming JSA). However there's another 2.61m claiming IB/ESA. Of course a number of these will actually be claiming IB/ESA for proper medical reasons, but in the past it has been a "policy" to put people on IB rather than JSA to keep the unemployment rate down. The bad thing about IB is that people are not obliged to do anything to carry on claiming that benefit so the vast majority of people on it, have been on it for years.

I don't think that students are normally included at all in the economically inactive figures (most cannot claim benefits), not official figures anyway.

[Ewood and I Would]

Nick Clegg has mentioned the audience member's name every time he speaks, just a bit cheesy and OTT but then I notice these little things

[jim mk2]

Question : would you buy a used car from David Cameron ? Watching him on TV tonight I don't believe a word he says.

[chaddyrovers]

I think Cameron is winning. It's also a better debate aswell. Also Brown has just say that after the election he will reform pensions. HE'S HAD 13 YEARS TO DO THAT!!!!

[jim mk2]

Brown has just say that after the election he will reform pensions. HE'S HAD 13 YEARS TO DO THAT!!!!

We've also had 11 years of uninterrupted economic growth followed by two years of global recession. Circumstances change.

[John]

Cameron doing well, actually think Brown is too.

Clegg's cheesy repetitive lines are cringe worthy....

[tcj_jones]

Cameron's turned it round completely. Clegg's coming out worst.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Cameron's turned it round completely. Clegg's coming out worst.

I agree, Brown doing a lot better as well.

[tcj_jones]

I think Brown and Cameron came out neck and neck, Clegg behind them. But Brown won on the issues that matter most to me.

The recession is my biggest concern, and I trust Brown far more than the others in moving past it.

[tcj_jones]

How the buggary did Brown come out last?! Clegg was certainly the weakest and Cameron was by no means a clear and outright winner.

[RibbleValleyRover]

How the buggary did Brown come out last?! Clegg was certainly the weakest and Cameron was by no means a clear and outright winner.

I thought Cameron came first tonight, followed by Brown and Clegg a bit further back. Surprised that YouGov thought Brown came third.

[JAL]

Yet more twisting of the facts from those on the right..

Doesn't that include the record number of people in higher education we have now?

By the way I'm not using the above as necessarily a brilliant thing since a lot of those are doing silly courses, but to come out with a statement like that ignores a massive amount of confounding factors, such as the number of students, the fact we most likely have a greater number of people working as carers than under Thatcher...

The current UNEMPLOYMENT rate right now is 2.5 million. The highest unemployment was under Thatcher was 4 million.

Dont be such a niave fool tony gale's mic.

[sleepyjack]

[BuckyRover]

I think the number is somewhere between the two. There are 2.5m registered unemployed (i.e. claiming JSA). However there's another 2.61m claiming IB/ESA. Of course a number of these will actually be claiming IB/ESA for proper medical reasons, but in the past it has been a "policy" to put people on IB rather than JSA to keep the unemployment rate down. The bad thing about IB is that people are not obliged to do anything to carry on claiming that benefit so the vast majority of people on it, have been on it for years.

I don't think that students are normally included at all in the economically inactive figures (most cannot claim benefits), not official figures anyway.

Thanks cn174.

I thought everybody knew that it is impossible to compare today's unemployment figures with those in the early 1990's because the way it is calculated has totally changed (a.k.a spin). The economically inactive figure is fairly constant.

[colin]

X-factor politics

Amanda Holden goes all weepy, as politician mentions our "brave" soldiers in Iraq.

Did anyone refer to Nurses as "Angels?"

Who wore the best suit & tie?

[Ewood and I Would]

X-factor politics

Amanda Holden goes all weepy, as politician mentions our "brave" soldiers in Iraq.

Amanda Holden is on Britain's Got Talent

[tony gale's mic]

Thanks cn174.

I thought everybody knew that it is impossible to compare today's unemployment figures with those in the early 1990's because the way it is calculated has totally changed (a.k.a spin). The economically inactive figure is fairly constant.

Unfortunately, Claire is wrong.

Economically inactive includes students, unpaid full time carers on benefits, those who retire early etc etc.

Here's my source:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7257667/Eight-million-people-economically-inactive.html

I don't think we need a source to state the number of students in this country is MUCH higher than under Thatcher.

There's also 2.2 million full time carers eligible for benefits in the UK, source:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7299998/Millions-of-part-time-carers-denied-support.html

I think it's safe to say this will have increased significantly since the Thatcher days, partly down to an ageing population.

There's also various other things such as early retirement etc...

Either way it's sure as hell not a constant. But tell me BuckyRover if this is all common knowledge precisely what big changes have they made to the way they calculate the unemployed since the days of Thatcher? I'm not saying there definitely hasn't been, but obviously you should be able to back this up...

The Office of National Statistics is a non ministerial department staffed by civil servants and so the figures themselves aren't subject to spin, although their interpretation in the media obviously is. That's why I'm very doubtful any pro-Labour changes have been made to the way they calculate employment figures.

[thenodrog]

I think Brown and Cameron came out neck and neck, Clegg behind them. But Brown won on the issues that matter most to me.

The recession is my biggest concern, and I trust Brown far more than the others in moving past it.

Those 3 words together are just totally wrong.

[philipl]

Post debate numbers all over the place.

Sun has Cameron by a whisker and Clegg/Brown tied, ITN has Clegg by a whisker, Times has Clegg and Cameron tied first; Channel 4, Telegraph and Guardian (very odd bedfellows) have Clegg winning by a mile.

[thenodrog]

The Tories must worried about the Lib Dems threat as Central Office gives newspaper owners orders to discredit Nick Clegg. Predictably the Tory-loving Daily Mail has gone into overdrive to rubbish the Lib Dems leader.

Question : would you buy a used car from David Cameron ? Watching him on TV tonight I don't believe a word he says.

Jim mk2 must be worried that Camerons done OK tonight cos he's gone into overdrive to rubbish the Tory leader.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Post debate numbers all over the place.

Sun has Cameron by a whisker and Clegg/Brown tied, ITN has Clegg by a whisker, Times has Clegg and Cameron tied first; Channel 4, Telegraph and Guardian (very odd bedfellows) have Clegg winning by a mile.

Populus in The Times has Cameron in the lead.

Angus Reid is very close but data is still coming in. I think we are going to have to wait until tomorrow evening at the earliest maybe 48 hours to see what the effects of the debate are.

[tony gale's mic]

I thought Brown acquitted himself the best out of all three leaders - thanks to style he will always start these things with a 5 to 10 point handicap but he spoke with substance. I saw one of the columnists from the pro-Tory Times say afterwards that his speech was too full of policies - surely this is a good thing?

I thought Cameron started off his usual bland wishy washy self, skirting around every question that was asked and offering very little in the way of direct answers, but in the second half spoke with a lot more convinction and really turned it round.

Nick Clegg played it safe this week - he could have tried to go for the jugular and tried to jump another few points in the polls but that was more likely to backfire than anything else since both leaders will have been preparing attacks on him all week. It's taken the Lib Dems decades to get even close to the position Clegg built up overnight last week and consolidation of that position in the polls was the most important thing and I think he more or less achieved things.

We won't see the same seismic shift as last week but I think Labour might go up one or two, Tories two or three and Lib Dem might just drop one or two.

[grizfoot]

Anybody know whether the debate will be repeated in full anywhere? I missed it unfornatley.

I prefer not to read the newspapers or various polls full of bias and lies. I'd like to make up my own mind by watching it myself, I'm already reasonably sure who I'll be voting for just looking for confirmation really.

[philipl]

I think it is on the BBC website.

The Times revised their numbers to show a small Cameron lead but the poll of polls are showing a dead heat between the three as near as makes no odds with Clegg one point ahead on 34 and Brown only just behind Cameron.

I think this op-ed in the Independent calls it right. Nick Clegg has siezed the opportunity of standing on the biggest stage contending for PM and having made the big step forwards in the first debate, he more than held his ground in the second one. Both Brown and Cameron desperately needed an equivalent game changer last night and they didn't find one last night.

Given the Tory press attacks on Clegg yesterday were so varied yesterday and all turned out to be damp squibs with the Daily Mail one in particular a fantastical concoction if you chose read the article they attacked, have they shot all their bolts at once? Mandelson apparently was correct in calling the hand of Conservative Central Office in it- all the Tory papers had indeed been given individual briefings by the Tory election HQ.

[thenodrog]

Mandelson apparently was correct in calling the hand of Conservative Central Office in it- all the Tory papers had indeed been given individual briefings by the Tory election HQ.

Peter Mandleson! Boy from Brazil??! If anybody needs a reason to not vote Labour he is it. Dunno why cos I'm not afraid of many people on this planet but I really find him sinister. He seriously makes my skin crawl. My spidey senses tingle every time I see him.

I know that if you paint a small moustache on a picture of him with a black felt tip he's a dead ringer for Adolph Hitler but thats not it. I wouldn't be suprised to discover that he died 200 years ago.