[Archived] Election

[thenodrog]

What he called a woman in private means nothing,

Bloody hell Le Chuck.... Of course it does! It means what and how he really thinks. Why do you think he's been back grovelling? why do you think Mandy and the entire Labour movement are in spin overdrive? You might think it means nothing but try telling that to the new labour electioneers.

[philipl]

I had a great deal of exposure to the NHS last year during my mother's illness in the form of Blackpool Victoria (the 3rd largest individual hospital in the UK apparently) and I thought everything apart from the huge unwieldly hand written files was incredibly impressive.

The management which must go into keeping a show like that going has to be of the highest quality whilst the staff, nurses and doctors seemed to be professional, motivated and decently happy with their overall lot.

The investment in new buildings and facilities built, being built and shortly to be built since 2000 was very striking as well.

Back to another theme of the election and the "threat" of a hung Parliament to our economic well-being.

Here is the cost of British Government debt (white line) compared with the cost of Greek Government debt (orange line):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/gilts-versus-greek-bonds-ch.jpg

The £ appreciating against the Euro since the Lib Dem surge

http://www.exchange-rates.org/Chart.aspx?iso_code=EUR&base_iso_code=GBP&mode=G&filter=30

The £ pretty well holding up against the $ over the same period

http://www.exchange-rates.org/Chart.aspx?iso_code=USD&base_iso_code=GBP&mode=G&filter=30

You are going to have to click on the links yourselves because I have reached the limit on images I can post.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It is amazing we have got so far into the campaign until any major figure blundered.

The astonishing thing about Brown is the lack of any panache or presence of mind after he made the gaffe. That has the potential to be the killer more than the off the cuff remark which I have to say seem incredibly dimissive and tetchy in relation to what the "bigot" actually said.

No doubt a Brown aide is collecting his P45 for not routinely de-miking his boss before getting in the car (unless Sky were planting bugs).

Anyway, with a bit of luck, that's Rochdale in the Lib Dem gain list.

Ths s the Guardian on the gaffe. That is totally damning so I shudder to think what the Tory press is going to do with it.

Err , Phillip you may not have noticed but the Lib-Dems already hold the Rochdale constituency. As one who knows if you're looking for bigots Rochdale is a good place to start !

[thenodrog]

'He called you a bigot....'

"Yer jokin."

Tell you what ...... I'd vote for Gillian Duffy. Never mind Clegg and Cameron she slaughtered him.

Brown's mealy mouthed responses sounded pathetic and his ingratiating false smile when later stood outside her house claiming to be a penitant sinner was nauseating. He's history. And I'd imagine that 'Sue' is too. I bet Mandelsons given them both the mother of all bollockings.

[jim mk2]

Latest poll for ComRes for ITV and the Independent:

Conservatives:

36% (up three)

Labour:

29% (no change)

Lib Dems:

26% (down three)

That would result in a hung parliament with the Tories on 275 seats, Labour 265 and the Lib Dems 79.

[tony gale's mic]

If anyone's vote is swayed either way by this then they really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a polling station come May 6th.

Obviously the anti-Labour crowd will play it up as some sort of big thing whilst the pro-Labour folk on here have tried to spin it in a positive light.

Well it definitely can't be spun in any positive light; I don't think the woman was a bigot although I didn't much like her assertion that just because Rochdale had some Eastern European immigrants that it suddenly became like "the Third World". I can see why Brown wouldn't have liked that statement, if he'd stopped to think he'd probably have realised that didn't necessarily make her a bigot, but as far as he was concerned he was making a private comment in the heat of the moment to a close aide.

The strange thing was that he'd actually dealt with that interview well up until, it wasn't a disaster by anyone's standards and she'd come away saying she'd vote Labour and thought Brown was a nice man. It would have been more understandable if it had gone badly but it hadn't so it is strange why he would have said it was a disaster, regardless of what came afterwards.

Either way every major politician will have said something like this, it's just Brown was unlucky/foolish enough to have his caught on microphone. If you're claiming this makes Brown any more deceitful/untrustworthy/two faced than anyone else you might vote for on May 6th then you're either deliberately putting an anti-Labour spin on things or you're very naive about the nature of the game. The worst thing you can say is how foolish he was to make a comment like that and not even check his microphone - that was dim in the extreme but for me it's a costly mistake more than anything. It's only becoming so big a story because the media are making it into one.

[Tris]

Oh come on, please, do you seriously think Brown is the first politician to stage manage his PR?

Of course not Paul. However, the Gordon Brown Machine spent the first days of this week telling us how his campaign had now changed - he was going out there to meet and speak to real people rather than planted Labour supporters in stage managed photo calls.

Two days into this new tactic and it speaks volumes when Brown follows up his pally chat with Mrs Duffy with this completely unexpected observation - "That was a disaster - they should never have put me with that woman. Whose idea was that? It's just ridiculous..."

The damaging irony being of course, that Mrs Duffy IS (or was) a die hard life long Labour voter. You can have it either way - it's either stage management done dreadfully badly, or it's Gordon Brown just being his unpleasant self.

Two previous moments in this campaign grated even more than today. 1 - The earliest moves in Brown's election campaign after returning from Buckingham Palace .. that awful trip to a supermarket in Kent via St Pancras International, when there was a line of student-aged Labour wannabees as he got out of the Jaguar, and then grinned his way to the train stopping only to talk to kids in pushchairs. Absolutely cringeworthy.

And then 2 - the almost criminal ruse of pulling HMS Ark Royal off a military exercise north of Scotland to toddle off in the direction of Calais - costing one million pounds per day - in the pretence that an aircraft carrier could become a passenger ferry.

As he made that fake statesman-like broadcast from the cabinet office, Brown must have already known 3 things - 1) There was already more than enough capacity on the channel to deal with demand ... - 2) Ark Royal wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference due to being totally unsuitable for the role ... - 3) Less than 48 hours later the skies were open again anyway, so Ark Royal never even made the channel. He must have known that would be the likely outcome when he made the order on Ark Royal, because talks must have been very well advanced.

Now THAT is stage managing your PR. Playing politics with the Flagship of the UK Naval Fleet to score a political point in a time of crisis. I refrained from posting my thoughts at the time, but today Brown got his karma - and it's fully deserved.

[Hughesy]

Oh dear the torries will have a field day with this tomorrow with the press! Simple comment made from frustration - get over it!!

[broadsword]

Simple comment made from frustration - get over it!!

Sounds like something you'd say about Allardyce.

Why should the Tory press "get over it" - they're there to make as much political capital as possible out of any mistakes Labour make. If Cameron made a mistake, would you tell the Mirror to "get over it"?

Brown's like one of those bulls in Spain that's been tormented and attacked for far too long. The coup de grace can't now be far away.

[tony gale's mic]

Sounds like something you'd say about Allardyce.

Why should the Tory press "get over it" - they're there to make as much political capital as possible out of any mistakes Labour make. If Cameron made a mistake, would you tell the Mirror to "get over it"?

Because journalism shouldn't be about political capital surely?

I agree the Mirror are spinning just like anyone else but the media are making this story five times bigger than it should be.

[colin]

Sir. I take my hat off to you for finding that.

Thank you

[Tom]

If anyone's vote is swayed either way by this then they really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a polling station come May 6th.

Obviously the anti-Labour crowd will play it up as some sort of big thing whilst the pro-Labour folk on here have tried to spin it in a positive light.

Well it definitely can't be spun in any P". I can see why Brown wouldn't have liked that statement, if he'd stopped to think he'd probably have realised that didn't necessarily make her a bigot, but as far as he was concerned he was making a private comment in the heat of the moment to a close aide.

The strange thing was that he'd actually dealt with that interview well up until, it wasn't a disaster by anyone's standards and she'd come away saying she'd vote Labour and thought Brown was a nice man. It would have been more understandable if it had gone badly but it hadn't so it is strange why he would have said it was a disaster, regardless of what came afterwards.

Either way every major politician will have said something like this, it's just Brown was unlucky/foolish enough to have his caught on microphone. If you're claiming this makes Brown any more deceitful/untrustworthy/two faced than anyone else you might vote for on May 6th then you're either deliberately putting an anti-Labour spin on things or you're very naive about the nature of the game. The worst thing you can say is how foolish he was to make a comment like that and not even check his microphone - that was dim in the extreme but for me it's a costly mistake more than anything. It's only becoming so big a story because the media are making it into one.

can't agree with your first line there, there are Plenty of people myself included to an extent who know very little about politics but have he right to vote based on any criteria they want. If someone for example didn't like the integrity shown by a candidate for prime minister why would they vote for him?

As for me I'm undecided as of now as I am unsure as to the main points of each manifesto due in part to general ignorance on my part.

[tony gale's mic]

can't agree with your first line there, there are Plenty of people myself included to an extent who know very little about politics but have he right to vote based on any criteria they want. If someone for example didn't like the integrity shown by a candidate for prime minister why would they vote for him?

As for me I'm undecided as of now as I am unsure as to the main points of each manifesto due in part to general ignorance on my part.

Sure, you have the right to vote for the candidate with the blondest hair too...

If you think this incident says anything about Brown's integrity compared to the other candidates you are very wrong. All three will have said things as offensve as this in private; Brown was just unlucky/silly enough to get caught.

[jim mk2]

. It's only becoming so big a story because the media are making it into one.

Because journalism shouldn't be about political capital surely?

I agree the Mirror are spinning just like anyone else but the media are making this story five times bigger than it should be.

It is a big story because the Prime Minister made a huge error. Newspapers and TV love stories like this - they increase circulation and boost viewing figures, plus this particular story is the added bonus of an already wounded PM shooting himself in the foot whom the majority of the Tory-owned media want removed from office anyway. Cameron would also have been ostracised had he made the same mistake but not to the same extent of Gordon with his gaffe.

This could well be the PM's Gerald Ratner moment but as I stated earlier the election is still a week away and there will be more developments and stories and in the run-up to May 6. Cameron should be miles ahead in the polls now but fact is he is barely ahead of the other 2 parties shows the public's misgivings over the trustworthiness of an oily, failed former PR man.

[pg]

Which party sets out to cap house prices and restrict owners from only owning enough properties that tally's with the number of immediate family members and no more.

This one would certainly get me interested.

You'd have to go to China for that. In order to pop the domestic housing bubble, the Chinese government has placed restrictions on the amount investors can borrow to buy property (only 50% of the price) and they have to pay higher interest rates compared to resident owners.

[Gav]

Any faint hopes that labour had of winning this election went down the pan with Browns comment yesterday, what an idiot!

He’ll now be remembered for that gaff for many years to come.

Must say I’m impressed my local labour candidate wants to bring back arts in the park, the only thing apart from the football Blackburns had to shout about for many a year and someone decided to discontinue it, SCANDELOUS.

[Rovermatt]

It's perhaps a pedantic point but the only people who will actually have the opportunity to vote for Brown are those living in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.

Sure this was a massive gaffe on his part but in the UK's parliamentary system, the policies of a party are more likely to sway the electorate in each constituency rather than what that party's leader said about one woman. I agree that it's terrible PR but is Brown's mistake likely to influence things outside Rochdale? It's not even a Labour seat.

[JAL]

You'd have to go to China for that. In order to pop the domestic housing bubble, the Chinese government has placed restrictions on the amount investors can borrow to buy property (only 50% of the price) and they have to pay higher interest rates compared to resident owners.

The idea is to stop the out of control spirilling prices and make it fairer for everyone whilst more importantly stop paying the @#/? banks even more money on your loans.

[broadsword]

I agree that it's terrible PR but is Brown's mistake likely to influence things outside Rochdale?

Yes, most definitely.

First of all, he's been caught out being two-faced (nothing new for a politician, but we prefer it if they actually are a bit more subtle). Then, he's rubbished the views of someone concerned about immigration, a sure-fire vote-loser.

People vote nationally in an election, even if all they have the power to do is vote locally.

Have just been to the newsagents. Even the Mirror is sticking the boot in, while the Grauniad looks to be more restrained. The timing couldn't have been worse, with the last televised debate tonight, Brown's sure to take a ribbing for it. He's just given the Libs and Tories free ammo.

Incredible really.

[yoda]

The idea is to stop the out of control spirilling prices and make it fairer for everyone whilst more importantly stop paying the @#/? banks even more money on your loans.

Actually you can borrow more and the restrictions are for second homes only

In France you can only borrow 70% and you cannot borrow against the equity in a house that you own, even if you do not have a motgage

[thenodrog]

Oh dear the torries will have a field day with this tomorrow with the press! Simple comment made from frustration - get over it!!

It's more than a simple comment Hughesy. It's an insight to the man behind the public facade. Everybody can see that Gillian Duffy is the salt of the earth. Brown describes her as a bigot (Jim mk2 does too to his shame btw has he retracted yet?) but in effect she is a salt of the earth, die hard Labour supporter who like most of them has genuine concerns over issues which she thinks Labour has either dealt badly with or swept under the carpet. She is unlikely to vote Labour any more but by all accounts is not willing to give Cameron an endorsement either despite the persuasive cheque book waving of some red top rag. To see her shocked and reduced to tears by her party's leader was shameful. Browns sickly staged managed smiling face outside her house after his forced grovel was almost as bad.

Even worse for the party is that New lab have been quite instrumental in reducing this GE campaign to a simple straightforward leadership choice. Personally as I have said before on here I hate these stupid stage managed TV debates, but his party have been quite happy to put Brown the individual onto the podium in the hope that his personal abilities will see off the other two and their parties into the bargain. Well Brown the individual has screwed up big time. Not only was he performing poorly against the other two but now the emphasis on him the man has turned right around to bite em on the backside.

He's shown Brown the secret man, the man who we have recently been informed who flies into violent tempers and rages on a regular basis. Many people have chosen to ignore that and put it down to hearsay. After yesterday they cant. imo Labours best and last ditch hope now is for him to resign. To secretly hold perfectly reasonable but honestly concerned die hard Lab supporters in such low esteem means that his presence now can now only stain the entire party.

The only words that can be employed in his defence is that ALL politicians are much of a muchness nowadays. Our form of democracy is outdated and lurching toward it's own deathbed. We have a parliament that is full of individuals who put their personal futures before the future of this country. That simply cannot continue nor should it be allowed to.

[thenodrog]

Because journalism shouldn't be about political capital surely?

I agree the Mirror are spinning just like anyone else but the media are making this story five times bigger than it should be.

Thats the way the politico's wanted. They wanted it down to a choice between 3 men on a podium and not 3 parties. A political showpiece a political 'X Factor'. Well they got bit and yesterday the curtains came down on one of em.

One bit of hope for all you socialists and even your own champagne variety TGM..... The huge spin is that Brown is not like that at all in private but I believe it's more likely they will all be the bloody same.

[broadsword]

He's shown Brown the secret man, the man who we have recently been informed who flies into violent tempers and rages on a regular basis. Many people have chosen to ignore that and put it down to hearsay. After yesterday they cant.

Yeah, he's shown that he's not really a man you can warm to. Of course, that shouldn't matter, only his competence as Prime Minister should matter. However, we must live in the real world and admit that personalities can hugely influence election outcomes.

Brown has so far led a lacklustre campaign and if we have another week of this, his party is going to come third in the popular vote.

[LeChuck]

Any indication this morning of where Labours lost votes will be heading?

[thenodrog]

Sir. I take my hat off to you for finding that.

Thank you

It's just a bit of sillyness. I'm not sure whether it was a criticism of Blair or Cameron. Personally I like the live stuff far better........ I wonder if that Sue sends it to You've been framed' whether or not she'll get 250 quid?