[Archived] Election

[American]

You must be privy to information that the credit rating agencies are not, then.

I don't think superficial scaremongering does anyone any good, even if it's put in capital letters.

You mean the same credit agencies threatening to downgrade Great Britain if the debt isn't cut?

[BPF]

Just voted.

A polling station is still intimidating to me...

[thenodrog]

Labour is for life ... not just Christmas!

C'mon you are better than that ES. Unlike the old WUM above I know that you are capable of clear, logical thought, whether I can include 'independent' to that I'm not sure.

Take the blinkers off. Whether a change of government can rescue the country from the current crisis I don't know, but one thing that is absolutely plain to everybody with an intellect higher than that of an amoeba is that Labour is taking us down the pan. They simply do not have the direction and political resolve to implement tough and drastic measures. Europe is in for one hell of a bumby ride as other countries are dragged into the Greek crisis like the green bottles on the proverbial wall.

I'd imagine that UKIP are prob thinking that this election is 12 months too soon. Tough measures for all and we will be heavily involved without question. I worry plenty about the ability of Cameron's Tories but I know for sure that the Lib DEms are nothing more than a side show whilst everybody and his bloody dog must know for certain sure that Brown and Labour are completely out of their depth.

I think the future will see that the previous and future economic problems, the change of world emphasis and a population nannied for too long will strain our democracy more than anything since WW2.

[modes98]

Vote Tory and guarantee the country's complete failure.

Spot on!

People don't forget the years of Hatcher and Major quickly and the new Tories are no different. Cameron is just the front to the same old Tory policies and principles.

I'm not saying vote Labour but for god sake don't vote the Tories in again.

[thenodrog]

Vote Tory and guarantee the country's complete failure.

That is not enough, it's just a silly soundbite. Explain please......

......... nah never mind it doesn't concern you.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Ok I will put it in the form of a couple of simple soundbites :- Disagree (but give reasons and arguments)

The Labour party is a manifestation of the creed of 'socialism' where the good of society as a whole is (..should be) considered ...Progressive.

Wow -are you Sam Tyler by any chance? and have been transported back in time. New Labour and socialism are like Chalk and Cheese

[JAL]

True, except that Labour forgot that you can't create a progressive and liberal society without a progressive and liberal financial system. They (like most 'leftish') governments around the world thought that neo-liberal (actually anti-classical) economic thinking would help usher in their brave new world.

IF ONLY Labour (and other governments like them) attempted to attack the power of the wealthy land owners with land taxes and taxation on property to prevent excessive speculation in housing. Instead, the bent over backwards to the finance and real-estate lobbies and increased taxation on the productive parts of the economy to retain revenue.

Now, the entire Western world is effectively finished as an economic power, mainly because all the 'wealth' over the past two decades was nothing more than an asset-priced bubble created out of property speculation. This is of course not new..it killed the Japanese economy in late 1980's .. and they will never recover.

The distinction between Labour and the Conservatives finished when 'the left' of the West adopted neo-liberal economics (which they had to do in order to become politically palatable in the first place). The distinction now should be whether or not you want to live in a classical economy (as originally thought of by Adam Smith whereby the economy supports productive members of society) or the return to a rentier-economy whereby the wealthy live of rents, interest, tolls etc. placed on the existing infrastructure and people.

Excellent post pg I salute you sir!

Just cannot believe how any ordinary man or women can go and vote Labour, Tory or even Lib Dem today, over here in fools paradise.

[thenodrog]

Ok I will put it in the form of a couple of simple soundbites :- Disagree (but give reasons and arguments)

The Labour party is a manifestation of the creed of 'socialism' where the good of society as a whole is (..should be) considered ...Progressive.

The Conservative party is a manifestation of the old feudal order ... power is retained by the wealthy land owners ... and everybody knows their place ... Stagnant.

Discuss.

Progressive? On what basis did you come up with that term?

Most opinion would suggest that the past 13 years the economy has gone progressively backwards.

[koi]

I can't be bothered reading all the pages I've missed, but I can guess what's been said!

Anyway, I think it's time our colours are put down now and lets have some fun with predictions. So come on, predict the results, the winner gets the prize of being the winner.

Con - 312

Lab - 219

Lib - 82

Ulsterman will take the Tory Whip.

[jim mk2]

Now, the entire Western world is effectively finished as an economic power, mainly because all the 'wealth' over the past two decades was nothing more than an asset-priced bubble created out of property speculation. This is of course not new..it killed the Japanese economy in late 1980's .. and they will never recover.

The US and Europe still has vast manufacturing and intellectual capacity so I don't think it is that simple and I don't think the west can be written off just yet. The next century will probably be Chinese (and Indian) but don't forget those countries still have huge problems over political stability and human rights that will hold back their development. Western property bubbles can be tackled through the taxation system given the political will and is desirable to curb speculators and create more balanced economies. Clueless non-voting Tories planning their next lavatorial extension don't have the mental capacity to understand.

[broadsword]

Ok I will put it in the form of a couple of simple soundbites :- Disagree (but give reasons and arguments)

The Labour party is a manifestation of the creed of 'socialism' where the good of society as a whole is (..should be) considered ...Progressive.

The Conservative party is a manifestation of the old feudal order ... power is retained by the wealthy land owners ... and everybody knows their place ... Stagnant.

Discuss.

Nothing much to discuss, this is total nonsense.

The "New Labour" party abandoned Clause 4, courted the City and went to war. Are people more socially-mobile after 13 years of New Labour? I think not. And don't forget they abolished the 10p tax rate.

In any case, I was talking about ... Geoffery Robinson, Mandelson and his mortgages, dodgy dossiers, Blair making £25 million pounds and selling himself to the highest bidder, the Hindujas, Bernie Ecclestone, Jacqui Smith and her porno videos, South Korean oil firms, John Prescott punching protesters and screwing his secretary, Keith Vaz doing favours for a convicted fraudster, Dr David Kelly, David Blunkett screwing around, Gorbals Mick the "neutral" Mr Speaker, Hoon, Hewitt and Byers prostituting themselves ... there's probably more, but that's all I can think of for now.

That was what I was referring to when I said you must be joking that Labour had the moral high ground. Total cobblers.

[koi]

The left is the way to go, just look at Spain, Portugal and Greece, fine socialist governments doing a splendid job.

Thank god we've got our gold reserve to fall back on.

[thenodrog]

The US and Europe still has vast manufacturing and intellectual capacity so I don't think it is that simple and I don't think the west can be written off just yet. The next century will probably be Chinese (and Indian) but don't forget those countries still have huge problems over political stability and human rights that will hold back their development. Western property bubbles can be tackled through the taxation system given the political will and is desirable to curb speculators and create more balanced economies. Clueless non-voting Tories planning their next lavatorial extension don't have the mental capacity to understand.

Thank you for confirming my WUM comment about you so promptly.

btw somebody told me that I've more toilets than you have teeth? Is that right? answer the question.

Absolutely spot on. Labour are not as socialist as they once were but they care deeply about the society and the welfare of its people to an acceptable degree - New Labour.

Really? Well they don't seem to care much about little old ladies who have voted Labour all their lives so God only knows what they think about the rest of us.

[American]

Not understanding those who are saying that the gov't needs to keep overspending to help us economically. Greece and Spain haven't made widespread cuts and are still in the ######. Ireland has made drastic public spending cuts and are poised to come out of this much rosier because of that.

The three major rating agencies said last week that Ireland's responsible approach to managing its finances means its rating prospects have not been harmed by recent speculation against peripheral euro zone countries

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/9063076

[koi]

Don't forget that the NHS was devised by Labour.

Well no, not quite. A National Health Service was a key area of social reform recommended by William Beveridge. Attlee and his labour government put the NHS into practice. Churchill had agreed with the report but wanted to stage the introduction of the NHS to make it more economically viable. By the way, we did have a healthcare service before the NHS but it was on a regional basis. Bevan and his government rightly wanted to create equality and a General Practice.

[koi]

Not understanding those who are saying that the gov't needs to keep overspending to help us economically. Greece and Spain haven't made widespread cuts and are still in the ######. Ireland has made drastic public spending cuts and are poised to come out of this much rosier because of that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/9063076

No, no, you're not playing along. We need to spend MORE and we need to spend it NOW. Tomorrow will never come, trust me. In fact, we should all spend more. We should all borrow as much as possible on the condition that we spend it all, that way we flood the economy with more money. It's win win. Follow the government, borrow more than you can afford and borrow some more to cover previous borrowing, it will work out trust me.

Cuts? nonsense. The state needs to grow. We should employ more in the public sector. Everyone who needs a job should be guaranteed a job with a public service and the job will suit YOU. Think about it, it'll pay for itself, I think. Okay, I've not worked it out but it sounds right, does it not?

You might be worried about the future. Rightly so, but consider this; the world might end in 2012 and who will be laughing then? us, coz we wont need to honour our debts! What about if the world doesn't end in 2012? don't worry, I've sort of thought about that, we'll print more money and start paying our debtors in cash. If we pay cash we might be able to get a discount because the tax man might not see it nudge nudge wink wink.

Don't worry, trust me.

Gordon.

[Clitherover]

Can't say i'm completely surprised by this.

BNP candidate punches Asian man on campaign trail

[koi]

btw somebody told me that I've more toilets than you have teeth? Is that right? answer the question.

Have you got more than one bog? You capitalist pig, you make me sick. I bet you're one of these who have one upstairs and downstairs, disgusting. Do you know how cold it is sat on th'outside lav at 5am after eating another of Margaret's stews made with last weeks offal?? I spit on you.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Nigel Farage former UKIP leader and now a candidate for Buckingham injured in a plane crash (non life-threatening injuries):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/8664260.stm

[jim mk2]

That was what I was referring to when I said you must be joking that Labour had the moral high ground.

Let's have a reminder of Tory morals 1979 - 1997.

Jonathan Aitken jailed for perjury (having initially tried to sue the journalist who blew his cover!) - he has never revealed why he was a guest of the Saudis in Paris while he was defence procurement minister. Incredibly, Cameron has since brough Aitken back in to the Tory fold.

Neil Hamilton, the man who received cash in brown envelopes in return for favours in parliament, and his appalling wife Christine; Jeffrey Archer; serial shagger Cecil Parkinson, John Wakeham; Piers Merchant.

They are just off the top of my head but the list is a long one.

[Hughesy]

If youve been to the polls - who have you voted??

[koi]

You're right Jim. At least with Mandy we can vote him out....

On an aside, I'm so glad that none of our cabinet ministers are unelected peers, phew, I'd really hate that.

I wonder if you could pay ministers to lobby on your behalf?? hmmm, I'll think about that.

[broadsword]

Does that mean that Labour occupies the moral high ground then? No.

Which was the point I was arguing against. But you're such a dogmatic party hack that you were compelled to a partisan reply even if it was totally irrelevant to my point. Well done.

[jim mk2]

Does that mean that Labour occupies the moral high ground then? No.

Which was the point I was arguing against. But you're such a dogmatic party hack that you were compelled to a partisan reply even if it was totally irrelevant to my point. Well done.

Both parties have miscreants (although only one will always be associated with "sleaze"), which is the point I was making but went over the top of your blinkered Tory head.

Congratulations.

[Sandiway Blue]

Well i class myself as a working class bloke and i can honestly say that Labour has done absolutely jack all for me and my family whatsoever.Mind you both my wife and i work full time so why would they do anything for us? Our earnings are just above the threshold to earn tax credits,so by the time we have to pay for things like dental,full council tax etc we are in real terms WORSE off than most of the dole dossing benefit scroungers that i have the misfortune to live on the same road as!

Labour,party for the working class? you must be joking!