[Archived] Election

[Exiled_Rover]

David Stumblebum.

I have no idea what the BBC thought they were playing at, but it appears part of my licence fee went on rubbish 3-D graphics and a showbiz jamboree by the Thames, but not very much at all went on content. ITV was much better. I'm gradually getting turned off the Beeb and look forward to a day when we don't have to pay a licence fee.

Well, I'm glad I went to bed at half one cos that wasn't worth stopping up for. My local (labour) MP got wiped out. I'm very sorry to see him go, he was a very good, hard-working, approachable MP.

I think we desperately need an overhaul of our democratic system, it's archaic. If I wanted the Tories to run the country, but a local Labour MP, then how am I meant to vote? It's deeply flawed.

Similar situation here. Lindsay Hoyle's a good MP for Chorley, but I didn't want his party to win the election, so who am I meant to vote for?

[Ozz]

Lyndsey's a good bloke, and MP too. Old school.

I think there will be another election later this year, I cannot see any compromises being made by any of the parties.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Brown speaks clearly that he wants to stay on despite less seats and votes. Looking like a Lab/Lib pact here with Brown continuing to borrow money to try and get us out of trouble and we end up with another Greece IMF situation. It’s the only thing he knows - spending money he doesn't have.

[American]

Brown speaks clearly that he wants to stay on despite less seats and votes. Looking like a Lab/Lib pact here with Brown continuing to borrow money to try and get us out of trouble and we end up with another Greece IMF situation. It’s the only thing he knows - spending money he doesn't have.

It doesn't matter what Brown wants at this point - he isn't going to get it. He's done, put a fork in him. Lib/Lab don't have enough, and considering what Clegg has said is far from a given.

As for proportional representation, do you really think that will make the system better? More hung parliaments (pretty much every one from here on) and weaker local representation, if any.

[broadsword]

How does the system work in the US?

[RibbleValleyRover]

As for proportional representation, do you really think that will make the system better? More hung parliaments (pretty much every one from here on) and weaker local representation, if any.

I pretty much agree with your stance on PR for the reasons you stated.

[BuckyRover]

The system is fine, with some variants of PR the BNP would have gain about 30 seats yesterday.

Can you imagine? The fringe should not be represented

[pg]

What do you mean by 'tactical voting'?

In Oz we have a preferential system, so the parties do big back-room deals in order to secure preferences (which often backfires in spectacular fashion).

[American]

How does the system work in the US?

3 main bodies to implement any legislation:

Congress, made up of 2 of the bodies, each of which have to separately approve legislation.

Senate - 2 per state, elected by popular vote

House of representatives - similar to MPs, but they don't have to vote along party lines

After approved, legislation needs to be signed into law by:

President - elected every 4 years by representational vote through the electoral college http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

Many other nuances involved - I've put it in simplest terms. Overall, more checks and balances in place, but also more of a possibility of having different splits in the parties controlling each.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The system is fine, with some variants of PR the BNP would have gain about 30 seats yesterday.

Can you imagine? The fringe should not be represented

Those scumbags would have got 30 seats under PR? Dear god!

[koi]

I'd need to know a hell of a lot more about PR before I'd go for it, as with all things in life there's probably a suitable compromise.

Interesting to hear such an open offer to the Lib Dems, not sure how I feel about that.

[thenodrog]

The old saying is, " Anyone who isn't a communist at twenty has something wrong with their heart.

Anyone who is still a communist at thirty has something wrong with their head."

Well done. I salute you bazza. I'd read it, forgotten it and couldn't be bothered googling around cos I was rushing to mow the lawn, get some food and go and vote and fit in a few scoops afterwards as a just reward!

However my @#/?ised version when applied to jim mk2 is a perfect fit.

[Paul]

What do you mean by 'tactical voting'?

Voting for a party you don't necessarily support in order to keep out / defeat one you do not want to see in government. So in my case if I thought the Labour candidate was certain to lose I would vote Lib Dem in the hope of keeping out the Conservative candidate.

[thenodrog]

The main problem is the whip system. Your MP should be able to vote as is best for his constituency, not his party.

Fatally flawed theory American. It should work that way of course but that would mean politicians putting what is best for the electorate and the country before whats best for

1. Themselves.

and

2. Their party.

And that would never do in these dreadful days of career politicians would it?

I find it amazing that despite the economic crisis, unpopular government and crucially virtually every newspaper backing the Tories, they still didn't manage to gain the 326 seats needed to form a government outright. It shows to me that still there are many people out there who deep down do not trust the Tories enough to give them the mandate to govern the country outright.

I'm suprised after the past few years that anybody trusts any of em Kamy..... aren't you?

[broadsword]

Who did you vote for theno (if you voted)? I know it was a secret ballot, so you don't have to say.

[thenodrog]

Dont see why anyone would want conservative in locally!!

Well apart from her having a face like a bashed crab in Bacup Blues Telegraph link I can think of 173,556 reasons Hughesy. You really must have the memory of a goldfish.

"Mrs Anderson claimed a total of £173,556 in expenses and allowances in 2007-8, the seventh highest claim of any MP. It is a huge increase from the £155,610 she claimed in the previous year."

Nice to see them darreners etc can remember better than you and ceratinly enough to cause her to crash and burn!

Equally nice to see the tearful Queen of 'Porn out of the Public Purse' Jackie Smith has been dumped as well. Pity I can't see her personally making as good a living out of S&M. I'd imagine only Podger Prescott and David Blunkett might show any interest.

[pg]

Fatally flawed theory American. It should work that way of course but that would mean politicians putting what is best for the electorate and the country before whats best for

1. Themselves.

and

2. Their party.

And that would never do in these dreadful days of career politicians would it?

Because these days, Prime-Ministers in waiting have to do what is best for international investors:

"We need a government that reassures the international markets. We need policies that will bring economic recovery. And we need a government that understands that great change is needed in order to restore faith in our political system."

[thenodrog]

Similar situation here. Lindsay Hoyle's a good MP for Chorley, but I didn't want his party to win the election, so who am I meant to vote for?

If you really believe that he's the one that will represent you best whatever the situation (and I think you are right in this case btw) then Labours Lindsay Hoyle of course. Be daft and self harming not to.

Don't be suckered into the politics of hate with this type of skewed logic..........

Voting for a party you don't necessarily support in order to keep out / defeat one you do not want to see in government. So in my case if I thought the Labour candidate was certain to lose I would vote Lib Dem in the hope of keeping out the Conservative candidate.

[thenodrog]

David Cameron this morning said:

"We need a government that reassures the international markets. We need policies that will bring economic recovery. And we need a government that understands that great change is needed in order to restore faith in our political system."

Because these days, Prime-Ministers in waiting have to do what is best for international investors:

Did he? Well I agree with the first two and am not arsed with the last one.

The public sector is costing too much and must be made to realise that it is there because of the private sector / the wealth makers and not vice versa. The public sector primarily exists to support the wealth makers of the private sector and thats that.

Every possible incentive, every tax break and every bit of encouragement to earn wealth for the country must go the way of the private sector until the chaos and damage done by Blair and Brown is repaired.

[berkshireblue]

Conservatives have a huge majority in England in seats and votes, its the tactical voting in Scotland and Wales that has stopped a Con Majority UK wide.

Give them independence, stop the funding and help resolve our debt

2 million more votes for Cameron than Brown is an overwhelming victory in my eyes

Think a con/lib pact would be a good solution , lowest labour vote since 1931 says it all

The scots will never vote Tory hence no majority

[thenodrog]

Give them independence, stop the funding and help resolve our debt

2 million more votes for Cameron than Brown is an overwhelming victory in my eyes

Think a con/lib pact would be a good solution , lowest labour vote since 1931 says it all

The scots will never vote Tory hence no majority

They used to to a degree.

btw Clegg and Cameron are disgracefully billing and cooeing and I see that little pipsqueak Alex Salmond is now cosying up to his sweaty mate Broon and wanting to 'work together'. Old Edward Longshanks will be spinning in his grave!

It's going to be a right old nest of vipers!

[only2garners]

As for proportional representation, do you really think that will make the system better? More hung parliaments (pretty much every one from here on) and weaker local representation, if any.

Absolutely. Our current FPTP system is now morally bankrupt. The only thing it was good for was to provide a clear winner and it has even failed in that this time. We have a party trying to claim the moral high ground because it has won the most votes and seats, but still almost 2/3rds of voters and around 80% of the electorate did not vote for them. With that level of support why should they impose their policies on the whole country? You could have course make the same point about every government since the 30s - it's not unique now, but our system usually lets one of the big two parties get away with it.

What's wrong with hung parliaments? Most of the western world seem to manage quite well with them - Germany, Scandinavia for example. New Zealand, the least corrupt government in the world, has PR - the UK is 18th. You can criticise the Israeli government for many things but you can't argue that it is not strong. We are just not used to the concept of compromise, but that's what we, as voters, have selected.

Someone above suggested that the BNP would get 30 seats under PR. Actually, a pure PR system would give them 12 seats on a total vote of just over 500,000. It is highly unlikely that we would adopt a pure PR system so the likely number would probably be much less. Of course, having a PR system might make more people vote for them as they would believe that their vote might not be wasted, set against that I suspect that many of the 500,000 were protest votes against the main parties. Sill they would probably get some seats, along with UKIP and the Greens. But that's democracy for you - if enough people support your policies you should have representation. Whilst I find the BNP abhorrent, I would fight for their right to be heard and be represented. I would much sooner have the breadth of political opionion inside Parliament taking part in debates than outside building up resentment.

[roversmum]

Similar situation here. Lindsay Hoyle's a good MP for Chorley, but I didn't want his party to win the election, so who am I meant to vote for?

He has a good PA and good publicity. I can't say any more.

I will NEVER NEVER vote for that man.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Don't you work/represent (councillor?) for the Conservatives R-Mum?

[1864roverite]

So we find ourselves in a hung parliament situation.

For me the nmessages are very clear.

This country has had enough of labour and more importantly Gordon Brown. The vote proves that, the loss of seats prove that and his secondary plea for alignment with either party proves it.

What is also perfectly clear is that the electorate appear not to understand the voting system. The suggestion by some labourites that tacgtical voting will help them has backfired on Lib Dem waverers as well as lukewarm Labour supporters.

The idiotic claims of the early Labour mps' that an alliance with them was the way forward clearly showed that they thought they had lost the GE and now, if we beleive and accept Nick Cleggs own BELIEF, the Lib Dems will align with the Tory Party and allow them to form the new regime.

I am sure the next 10 days will be both interesting and problematic for all concerned as uncertainty and chaos reigns, lies and more lies hit the headlines, more broken promises and warts an all appeaqr in the media.

Despite what some Labour fans think, you lost comprehensively, Brown is a joke and he is a fool if he thinks that he can lead his party any more.