[Archived] Election

[only2garners]

Cameron also found himself under fire from his Lib Dem allies, with newly appointed Equalities Minister Lynne Featherstone criticising the lack of women in the Government.

I heard the interview on The World At One on Radio 4 - all she said was that the number of women in the Cabinet, in ministerial positions and in her own party wasn't enough and they needed to do better, collectively as a Government. How that is putting Cameron under fire I don't know. What would you expect an Equalities Minister to be saying?

There does seem to be problems with people from both sides of the political spectrum having a great deal of trouble with the concept of a coalition. It just doesn't fit the old-fashioned confrontational view of politics we have had for all my lifetime, despite in reality us having had three essentially social democratic parties for the last 10 years with precious little to choose between them. Politicians (and posters on here) on the left and right seem to be jumping up and down saying it's not fair, they can't do this, it's breaking the rules.

A Conservative / Lib Dem coalition certainly isn't my perfect outcome but if they deliver electoral reform, an end to ID cards, greater protection of civil liberties, tax reform towards fairness, no third runway at Heathrow and a questioning attitude to the replacement of Trident for a start then it's a damn sight better outcome than I was expecting.

[tony gale's mic]

It's not so much how many went to Oxbridge that bothers me; it's how many went to Eton. Yes Oxbridge generally accepts far more upper class public school folk but there's still quite a lot of merit involved in going to Oxbridge and there's plenty of people who made it to Oxbridge who don't fit the mould at all.

But the sheer amount of Old Etonians in their front bench team (I heard it being quoted as 15 a couple of years ago, admittedly there have been reshuffles since) is more worrying as it's from a much more select group of people, based far more on wealth and less on merit and implies much more of an Old Boys' situation. Even if they were all from a varied mix of public schools it wouldnt be quite so much of an issue.

[Mattyblue]

Still wondering why you never mentioned the private educations of the New Labour cabinet jim?

What do you think of the Milliband brothers or Ed Balls as probable future leaders of the great people's party? all privately educated were they not?

Follwing the fine priviliged tradition of Blair and Harriet Harman.

Need to get a grip and except that the career politicans in 'Labour' are no different than anyone else.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Thank God for Michael Gove, at least he's got his priorities right. No 1 task in Education ? Rename and rebrand the Department. Take all the signs down- blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of a Works Manager I worked for, first thing he did was repaint all the white lines on the workshop floor, he lasted 6 months as well.

[koi]

Still wondering why you never mentioned the private educations of the New Labour cabinet jim?

What do you think of the Milliband brothers or Ed Balls as probable future leaders of the great people's party? all privately educated were they not?

Follwing the fine priviliged tradition of Blair and Harriet Harman.

Need to get a grip and except that the career politicans in 'Labour' are no different than anyone els

I'm pretty sure the Milibands went to a London comp. I could be wrong but don't forget their dad was was an active Marxist! Think they both went to Oxford though. Now Ed Balls is a proper 'toff' with a very privileged life - oh and a member of the Oxford Conservative Association....

I think if you look at the Conservative front bench I pretty sure the majority are state educated and as for as I know, only Cameron and Osbourne are Etonians but I'm happy to be corrected.

[BuckyRover]

To summarise, these next five years are going to hurt, thanks to Labour's profligacy and the financial crisis so...

Sit up straight and take your medicine

[Mattyblue]

I'm pretty sure the Milibands went to a London comp. I could be wrong but don't forget their dad was was an active Marxist! Think they both went to Oxford though. Now Ed Balls is a proper 'toff' with a very privileged life - oh and a member of the Oxford Conservative Association....

I think if you look at the Conservative front bench I pretty sure the majority are state educated and as for as I know, only Cameron and Osbourne are Etonians but I'm happy to be corrected.

Yes, youre right they are The Marxist Brothers after all!

My point still stands, watching that Crewe by-election with Labour activists chasing the Tory candidate around in top hat and tails was bizarre to say the least. Especially as the campaign will have been in no doubt orchestrated in Labour central office by public schoolboy and Oxbridge politicos.

The main problem with all 3 parties is there are too many career politicians with their only background outside Westminister and Brussels (if any) being in PR, think tanks, lobbying etc.

[koi]

Yes, youre right they are The Marxist Brothers after all!

My point still stands, watching that Crewe by-election with Labour activists chasing the Tory candidate around in top hat and tails was bizarre to say the least. Especially as the campaign will have been in no doubt orchestrated in Labour central office by public schoolboy and Oxbridge politicos.

The main problem with all 3 parties is there are too many career politicians with their only background outside Westminister and Brussels (if any) being in PR, think tanks, lobbying etc.

Your point is correct and there's a lot of hypocrisy in the Labour ranks - Champagne Socialism is a very apt description.

[jim mk2]

I think if you look at the Conservative front bench I pretty sure the majority are state educated and as for as I know, only Cameron and Osbourne are Etonians but I'm happy to be corrected.

The country is being rules by Champagne Charlies so I'm more than happy to correct you.

Cameron, Eton private

Osborne, St Paul's London private

Hague Wath-upon-Deane comprehensive

Grieve, Westminster private

Fox, St Brides High Catholic independent

Lord Spelman, Herts and Essex Grammar

Hammond, Shenfield School, state selective

Maude, Abingdon, private

Lansley, Brentwood, private

Willletts, King Edward VI, Birmingham state selective

Ainsworth Ludgrove, Wokingham private

Mitchell, Rugby private

Duncan, Merchant Taylor's private

May, Wheatley Park comprehensive

Letwin, Eton private

Grayling, RGS High Wycombe, state selective

Gillan, Cheltenham Ladies' College private

Gove, Robert Gordon's College, Aberdeen private

Overall MPS:

Tories independent schools 54 per cent, state selective 19, state comprehensive 27

Labour independent schools 15 per cent, state selective 27, state comprehensive 57

Lib Dems independent schools 40 per cent, state selective 22, state comprehensive 38

All MPs

Independent schools 35 per cent, state selective 24, state comprehensive 41

[Bazzanotsogreat]

The country is being rules by Champagne Charlies so I'm more than happy to correct you.

Overall MPS:

Tories independent schools 54 per cent, state selective 19, state comprehensive 27

Labour independent schools 15 per cent, state selective 27, state comprehensive 57

Lib Dems independent schools 40 per cent, state selective 22, state comprehensive 38

All MPs

Independent schools 35 per cent, state selective 24, state comprehensive 41

Source?

[Mattyblue]

The country is being rules by Champagne Charlies so I'm more than happy to correct you.

Cameron, Eton private

Osborne, St Paul's London private

Hague Wath-upon-Deane comprehensive

Grieve, Westminster private

Fox, St Brides High Catholic independent

Lord Spelman, Herts and Essex Grammar

Hammond, Shenfield School, state selective

Maude, Abingdon, private

Lansley, Brentwood, private

Willletts, King Edward VI, Birmingham state selective

Ainsworth Ludgrove, Wokingham private

Mitchell, Rugby private

Duncan, Merchant Taylor's private

May, Wheatley Park comprehensive

Letwin, Eton private

Grayling, RGS High Wycombe, state selective

Gillan, Cheltenham Ladies' College private

Gove, Robert Gordon's College, Aberdeen private

Overall MPS:

Tories independent schools 54 per cent, state selective 19, state comprehensive 27

Labour independent schools 15 per cent, state selective 27, state comprehensive 57

Lib Dems independent schools 40 per cent, state selective 22, state comprehensive 38

All MPs

Independent schools 35 per cent, state selective 24, state comprehensive 41

Still struggling to find your point? Half the Cabinet went to private school? So?

Blair did, as did Mandelson, as did Harman, as did Balls, all big players in New Labour. And if you are talking about 'Champagne' lifestyles look no further than Two Jags.

My Uncle owns a chippy and my Aunt is a nurse, they sent their daughter to Westholme, they are hardly 'Champagne Charlies'.

Last I am saying on this because I think you are paying a very effetive WUMing operation, if not you are beyond pathetic.

[koi]

Few notable exceptions there Jim; Warsi? Pickles? Clarke? McLoughlin? Not that it really matters to me Jim, unlike you I couldn't give a to$$ where a person comes from. Unlike you I don't want to put people in their little groups and try to keep them there for your my satisfaction and unlike you there's no chip on my shoulder. I was state educated (school, college, Uni all free under the Tories Jim) and I've done okay but if I can afford to send my children to a private school I will.

[SouthAussieRover]

Source?

Brown?

[thenodrog]

Oh my heart bleeds.

Rather a selfish statement depending on your definition of 'rich'. People who work hard to earn more money through enterprise / initiative / ambition / parental responsibility and elevate themseves into a higher income bracket invariably pay more tax via income tax, NI contributions, vat, stamp duty, council tax etc etc than people who are in low paid employment. They should be rewarded for their endeavours not fined for them.

Squeeze the rich and destroy the ambition of the poor. At the bottom people are better off not working, absolutely crazy, if that doesn't destroy hope and ambition then what does?

They also employ the politics of hate and envy. There was a Labour guy on newsnight criticising Lib/Con or having too many Oxbridge graduates.

I went to university myself and have nothing but respect for those that made it to Oxbridge, they always had the drive and determination, even at a young age. Yet Labour thinks having these people in power is somehow detrimental to the UK. The bizarre notion that people who worked their backsides off during their education don't deserve to be in positions of power.

Incredibly irrational.

Not incredible irrational just plain old fashioned jealousy.

[thenodrog]

I just despise the class system. You seem to happy with the cycle of rich parent pays for education, child goes to Oxbridge, then goes on to high paid job, then does the same for their child. It's wrong, and the Tory inheritance tax policy was a further move to preserve that kind of thing in our country.

The students who went to Oxbridge from my old Grammar school were the super intelligent. The elite who got top grades in 9 or more O'Levels and 4 or more A levels when that really was a rarity even within a grammar school environment. Parental wealth was most definitely not involved.

Intelligence is a result of genetics and can not be bought or transferred no matter how much wealth is available.

[thenodrog]

You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion will never change. I have voted for all 3 political parties for the betterment of the country. You support the reds, that is your perogative.

If I end up being wealthy enough to pay to educate my kids I will do, and I will tell them to ignore those who look to judge them because of their background.

If the disastrous comprehensive education experiment had never taken place and grammar schools were still in existence there would be little need for private education except for unintelligent offspring of the wealthy.

[Amo]

Intelligence is a result of genetics

Not quite.

[thenodrog]

It's not so much how many went to Oxbridge that bothers me; it's how many went to Eton. Yes Oxbridge generally accepts far more upper class public school folk but there's still quite a lot of merit involved in going to Oxbridge and there's plenty of people who made it to Oxbridge who don't fit the mould at all.

But the sheer amount of Old Etonians in their front bench team (I heard it being quoted as 15 a couple of years ago, admittedly there have been reshuffles since) is more worrying as it's from a much more select group of people, based far more on wealth and less on merit and implies much more of an Old Boys' situation. Even if they were all from a varied mix of public schools it wouldnt be quite so much of an issue.

I tend to agree with that.

[thenodrog]

The reactions around Europe to our elections are interesting - almost all are horrified at the adversarial nature of British politics (and legal system) and our lack of willingness to embrace consensus politics.

So what?

btw what does 'almost all' actually mean?

[FourLaneBlue]

Intelligence is a result of genetics and can not be bought or transferred no matter how much wealth is available.

Not quite the full story. Genetics obviously play a significant part relating to intelligence but environmental and cultural factors also play a part. If kids with the same intelligence went to Eton and some run-down comprehensive we all know who we would bet the house on to do better.

[thenodrog]

Not quite the full story. Genetics obviously play a significant part relating to intelligence but environmental and cultural factors also play a part. If kids with the same intelligence went to Eton and some run-down comprehensive we all know who we would bet the house on to do better.

Intelligence is a result of genetics. Utilising and developing it is a different issue.

[jim mk2]

If the disastrous comprehensive education experiment had never taken place and grammar schools were still in existence there would be little need for private education except for unintelligent offspring of the wealthy.

Grammar schoools still exist only now they are called state selective schools. There are 164 grammars in England and Kent still has the 11-plus (called the Kent test). Along with its failure to repeal Thatcher's anti-trade union legislation it is one of the few indictments of the previous Labour govt that grammar schools were not eradicated completely.

[JAL]

Grammar schoools still exist only now they are called state selective schools. There are 164 grammars in England and Kent still has the 11-plus (called the Kent test). Along with its failure to repeal Thatcher's anti-trade union legislation it is one of the few indictments of the previous Labour govt that grammar schools were not eradicated completely.

If the people of Kent and anywhere else see thats the best way of educating their young, then what has it got to do with muddling, div pot nutters like you jim mk2 or the Labour party and come to that any other political party FFS.

[LeChuck]

The students who went to Oxbridge from my old Grammar school were the super intelligent. The elite who got top grades in 9 or more O'Levels and 4 or more A levels when that really was a rarity even within a grammar school environment.

The thing is, that's not the case now.

There are far more kids getting A grades than there are places at Oxbridge. The ones getting the grades outside the top public schools will find it harder to get in, far harder. If you read the newspapers around results time, there are plenty of stories of students struggling to get into the top unis with high grades.

It becomes like almost any profession - 'who you know, not what you know'.

[thenodrog]

The thing is, that's not the case now.

There are far more kids getting A grades than there are places at Oxbridge. The ones getting the grades outside the top public schools will find it harder to get in, far harder. If you read the newspapers around results time, there are plenty of stories of students struggling to get into the top unis with high grades.

It becomes like almost any profession - 'who you know, not what you know'.

So you are saying basically that the educational system in this country is not working. Handing out A+ grades willy nilly really is devaluing the achievements and future prospects of the exceptional pupils, as well as denying future employees the best talents?

Thats what most people of my generation already know.