[Archived] Election

[jim mk2]

Allow me to demonstrate the fact that I probably have more letters after my name than you have in your given name. That's a: BA, MA, Grad Dip, MSc (yes, that's TWO Masters degrees, science and arts - one for each of my half brain) with a second MSc to follow sometime next year, when I can be arsed to finish it.

Highly qualified (allegedly) but the thought processes and quality of writing and argument throughout your right-wing loony diatribe are those of a 14-year old at best. So excuse me if I take those "qualifications" with a huge ton of salt - either the education system really has gone down the drain after the wasted years of 1979 - 97 or they were obtained in colouring in or advanced needlework at some godforsaken local college. In any even, only a prize pr!ck would boast about it on an internet messageboard.

[JAL]

Highly qualified (allegedly) but the thought processes and quality of writing and argument throughout your right-wing loony diatribe are those of a 14-year old at best. So excuse me if I take those "qualifications" with a huge ton of salt - either the education system really has gone down the drain after the wasted years of 1979 - 97 or they were obtained in colouring in or advanced needlework at some godforsaken local college. In any even, only a prize pr!ck would boast about it on an internet messageboard.

You've shocked me here jim with this post but I must confess it made me chuckle aswell. Always good to hear a different view point.

[Rover Down Under]

Highly qualified (allegedly) but the thought processes and quality of writing and argument throughout your right-wing loony diatribe are those of a 14-year old at best. So excuse me if I take those "qualifications" with a huge ton of salt - either the education system really has gone down the drain after the wasted years of 1979 - 97 or they were obtained in colouring in or advanced needlework at some godforsaken local college. In any even, only a prize pr!ck would boast about it on an internet messageboard.

Incapable of offering any meaningful response or valid argument the loony left resort to petty personal insults which are as nonsensical as they are pathetic:

1. I was challenged as to the level of my intelligence, I responded, that is not boasting.

2. A typical “godforsaken local college” would not offer Masters degrees, but I need not “boast” about the quality institutions they are from.

3. It is 2010 (as has been pointed out to you before), not 1997, and as you have been challenged time and again Jim – Labour had 13 years to repair these apparent “wasted years” why didnt your party do anything about this?

4. After 13 years of Labour I imagine your average 14 year old would barely be able to write a coherent sentence having been held back year after year so that little Ned Numpty wouldn’t get left behind and everyone could start out equal.

Perhaps if you stopped taking a huge ton of salt with everything you wouldn’t be such a bitter, dried up old pickle.

[Paul]

Allow me to demonstrate the fact that I probably have more letters after my name than you have in your given name. That's a: BA, MA, Grad Dip, MSc (yes, that's TWO Masters degrees, science and arts - one for each of my half brain) with a second MSc to follow sometime next year, when I can be arsed to finish it.

In my life I have met, worked with, am related to and know socially a number of people with similar qualifications obtained at a variety of universities but primarily Oxford or Cambridge. Their ages range from early 20s to late 80s and each has great intellect. One characteristic common to all is they do not, and presumably feel no need to, attempt to demonstrate their intellect by listing their qualifications, though each might mention their time at, for example Oxford, in passing. Other characterisics they seem to share is a deep, quiet knowledge they are happy to share in an appropriate manner and time with lesser mortals. Their intellect is clear to all, without the need to list achievements.

In your case this seems to be a missing characteristic, perhaps it's included in the bit you presumably can't be arsed to do?

[thenodrog]

In my life I have met, worked with, am related to and know socially a number of people with similar qualifications obtained at a variety of universities but primarily Oxford or Cambridge. Their ages range from early 20s to late 80s and each has great intellect. One characteristic common to all is they do not, and presumably feel no need to, attempt to demonstrate their intellect by listing their qualifications, though each might mention their time at, for example Oxford, in passing. Other characterisics they seem to share is a deep, quiet knowledge they are happy to share in an appropriate manner and time with lesser mortals. Their intellect is clear to all, without the need to list achievements.

In your case this seems to be a missing characteristic, perhaps it's included in the bit you presumably can't be arsed to do?

How do you know that then unless they told you?

RDU was asked so he replied. If that is bragging then your mates must have bragged similarly.

Paul in your obvious political disappointment don't be tempted to join Jims posse. You are already copying his style in ending with an insult.

[ABBEY]

I've got to go on a speed awareness course @ Bolton next week ..does this count ?

[koi]

I've got to go on a speed awareness course @ Bolton next week ..does this count ?

Of course and don't forget any swimming badges you've got.

[thenodrog]

I've got to go on a speed awareness course @ Bolton next week ..does this count ?

Prob count more if you don't go abbey!

[yoda]

I've got to go on a speed awareness course @ Bolton next week ..does this count ?

Is that a rehab course

[ABBEY]

How to spot sly scrotes hiding with a speed gun.

[roversmum]

There was one sitting with a camera in the boot part of an estate car with the tailgate up down our village road recently. You couldn't see her until you got really near but having seen them try all sorts of tricks down there I made sure I wasn't going too fast! I've seen plenty of those yellow and white van efforts but that was just a car parked at the bus stop lay-by, most sneaky.

[1864roverite]

You should have taken a photo mum because that is NOT what they are meant for and LANCASHIRE is a county that has preferred to rid themselves of the dreaded mobile cameras.

Personally, I totally disagree with speed cameras and mobile camera/speed traps.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Whilst I'm sure they are annoying (well, the sneaky aspect of it), surely if you're not breaking the speed limit you shouldn't be worried?

[BuckyRover]

Exactly, I don't agree with speed cameras and think there are far, far too many of them, but you can't complain when you are caught speeding.

It's very simple not to get caught.....

[roversmum]

Indeed, ADB, but the fact is, the road around our village (at least the point where they always lurk) could in no way be classed as a busy road, in fact at any time of day you rarely see more than three vehicles or so including the odd bus on it, and as far as I'm aware there have been no serious accidents on it. Also, given that the road goes down a slight hill just before that spot it is very easy to clock just over thirty without realising it unless you have your eyes glued to the speedometer.

And no, they haven't caught me - yet

Edit: just to clarify, I'm NOT in the habit of exceeding the speed limit! However, I have a strong belief that roads are for vehicles, pavements are for pedestrians (and definitely not to be painted in two leaving about 18 inches for people with buggies etc and the same for cyclists).

[thenodrog]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/8187281.East_Lancs_on_brink_of_savage_regeneration_cuts/

Who cares? I've spent at least 200k of my own money over the past 30 years 'regenerating' my houses without anybody offering me any money. In fact the last two houses were seriously run down when I bought them. The last one so run down that it had to be demolished and completely rebuilt.

What is this money and how does one get it? They seem to be talking in telephone numbers in the report. Have I missed out now? Or is there still time to phone somebody in the Town Hall to see if there's enough money still swilling about the system to try for a retrospective hand out?

[koi]

What a laugh the east lancs regen scheme is/was. When I was in construction those involved saw it as money for nothing; a huge payday courtesy of the tax payer. We all knew who'd get the work and how they'd get it, I only that this and schemes like it are investigated because they might find some very interesting goings on.....

Nice to see John 'I'll never accept a peerage' Prescott has erm, accepted a peerage. Nice one John!

[colin]

oops

[Paul]

http://www.lancashir...eneration_cuts/

Who cares?

Are you really so blinkered and self- centred that you don't understand what this is about?

The ferrel scroots and underclass, as you repeatedly characterise them, and their children do actually need help with social housing. Giving people a decent place to live is a part of trying to raise standards all round. I'm sure there is plenty wrong with these schemes but equally there is much that is right. If people are left to live in ageing Victorian Blackburn terraces while those who can afford it, like you and I, escape to enjoy leafy Pleasington and its like what will be the outcome? Towns and cities with slum areas with a population for whom there is absolutely nothing?

The longterm implications of that are frightening.

[Paul]

http://www.lancashir...eneration_cuts/

Who cares? I've spent at least 200k of my own money over the past 30 years 'regenerating' my houses without anybody offering me any money. In fact the last two houses were seriously run down when I bought them. The last one so run down that it had to be demolished and completely rebuilt.

What is this money and how does one get it? They seem to be talking in telephone numbers in the report. Have I missed out now? Or is there still time to phone somebody in the Town Hall to see if there's enough money still swilling about the system to try for a retrospective hand out?

Are you really so blinkered and self- centred that you don't understand what this is about?

The ferrel scroots and underclass, as you repeatedly characterise them, and their children do actually need help with social housing. Giving people a decent place to live is a part of trying to raise standards all round. I'm sure there is plenty wrong with these schemes but equally there is much that is right. If people are left to live in ageing Victorian Blackburn terraces while those who can afford it, like you and I, escape to enjoy leafy Pleasington and its like what will be the outcome? Towns and cities with slum areas with a population for whom there is absolutely nothing?

The longterm implications of that are frightening.

thenodrog I'd firstly like to aplogise for my first reaction to your "Who Cares?" statement. I would like to comments on this, its implications and the underlying issues. I want to be clear I am not trying to attack you but I ask you, and others who perhaps feel the same, to think about what I say. Ask yourself how you would feel, how your son and daughter would feel, if your family faced the situation hundreds of thousands in this country do. I realise you classify me as some sort of loony, lefty, dreamer who doesn't live in the real world but those from this board who have met me may vouch for the fact this is far from the truth. I'm boringly middle-class and have a very fortunate life.

I'll also apologise to the rest of the board for this post but I know through my own life and others I have met why "Who Cares?" is such an appalling statement. These are attitudes we cannot have in our society if it is to survive.

On the board I know a little of roversmum and the enormous difficulties she challenges every day, I know another member whose young son has Downs as does my Tom. I know a member who is alive today and watching Rovers because of the drugs the NHS supply. Help is needed everywhere, that is the point. Since my son was born I have met many, many parents and carers all fighting the system for the help and support their children, who will become adults, need. I was raised in a leafy, sleepy Hampshire village in a very middle-class, middle England way. In the village there was an institution, I mean the word, run by Catholic nuns, for mongols. I saw these children and young people at Christmas Mass, when they were let out, and the summer Fete, when we were let in. The day following my son's birth a doctor told us of Tom's problems, it was assummed because of my wife's profession she had already spotted the symptoms! After all this, spending time with my wife and son I had to go home to his brother. Before I could go I spoke to the young nurse who had been with us, I now realise she was only a kid, outside the room and asked her "Does this mean my son's a mongol?" I'll never forget the kindness she showed a very frightened man.

The point is I was completely, utterly and totally ignorant of another world. My upbringing meant I knew nothing. Death, disability, illness was something in my childhood that was hidden from us, and it stayed like that till I was in my mid thirties. A few days after Tom was born I told a councillor "I know this means he'll never play football." The answer was "Why?" I still have the letter from a well meaning aunt who advised, basically "enjoy him while he's young and then you can have him sent away." What disgusting attitude to life underpins that statement? We laughed loud when we read that one.

Today my son very proudly takes his place in everday life. He is able to do this through past family support and increasingly society's support, both financially and practically. While I am alive I can guide this, when dead I hope my other sons will do so but it's possible for many reasons they will not. If this is the case my Tom will rely totally on a caring society, on health care professionals. If it's done badly and he's unhappy he won't understand why. I lay awake at nights worrying about this and I hope it's more than 30 years in front of me.......but a car accident means it could be today. I'd guess roversmum and many, many others think the same.

I agree with you and understand there are many who work the system, who are happy to live off the rest of us, who don't deserve the benefits. However there are millions more who genuinely need and deserve our help, not just the disabled, the sick but also those less fortunate than you and I through no fault of their own. If we don't try to build a caring society, to provide decent housing, support people who need it, the UK will become even more fractured and broken than it is. If our society continues to fracture I am truely frightened and scared of what the future holds for those who cannot help themselves. Life in an institution, perhaps just wasting away in a room with no help? You and I can afford our nice houses, our renovations. Be thankful you can rather than ask why no one gave you money to do it.

The difficulties many face in their lives can strike a family at any time. I know. At 35 I was pig ignorant, knew nothing of the struggle millions face, I was comfy, had money and not a care in the world. I couldn't look a disabled person in the face, because I saw disability and not a person. 21 years on my views have changed because I have learnt. I hope it never does but ask yourself how you would feel if your grandchild, when you get one, was faced with such difficulties? would you want a society in which people dismissed things with "Who Cares?" Great who cares that in 70-80 years time your now adult grandchild, whose grandparents, will be, and parents, might be, dead needs society's help. Do you want that? Can you understand how it feels?

Over the last 20 years I've had to challenge the system time and again, and won every battle but one. As a result of my failing in the one battle, and being financially unable to support the therapy needed at the time, my son's language is very limited. This is why I challenge the "Who Cares?" attitude and those who hold such views. Tomorrow your child could have an accident leaving them needing a lifetime of care.

The price we pay for having a society which at least tries to care and support those who need it is there will always be an element of scroungers who live off the state. We cannot allow those relatively few to impact on the help we should give to the millions who deserve it. Think about it, if only for selfish reasons, because you might, just might need all the care and support our society can provide tomorrow. You just don't know. If it happens do you want others to shrug their shoulders with "Who Cares?"

I truely am not trying to attack you but I will never stop attacking the "Who Cares?" attitude because we must if the UK is to remain, and hopefully improve, as a decent place to live. I had a comfy life, I thought nothing could touch me. I still have a comfy life but I've learnt how lucky I am. You have a good life, perhaps you feel the think the same. Don't.

[koi]

Regen is vital BUT these schemes tend to be extremely badly managed and the select few who get the tenders make huge sums of profit at the expense of the tax payer. The same companies ALWAYS get the tenders and I know how they get them but I'm not going there. I know of one company I supplied who has a open cheque book at the expense of the NHS; the amount of work they do/did and the quality was vastly below what they actually got paid for. These companies will not touch private work because it's a poor payer compared to the public sector work (a house builder will budget about £10.50 for a door casing plus £8 for fitting, a local hospital was paying about £50 for a fitted casing - one example). In the NW I can tell you that a maximum of six companies get all the work that's how uncompetitive it is. The last government did try and clamp down on this by fining a number of companies for price fixing including one of my customers at the time but nothing changed.

For regeneration to work a complete overhaul is needed. Local trades should do the work not national companies who bring in european workers to cut costs - how is that benefiting the local area?....Actually I could go on all day here but life's too short! Maybe I need to write to my MP about this? On second thought it's Lyndsey Hoyle, I'd have to include lots of pictures small words....

[koi]

Paul, the problem is those that need the help and support don't get what they need. If we took out the waste in the country we could provide that safety net for those who need it. At present too many fall through that net whilst many others simply abuse it.

[den]

Paul, the problem is those that need the help and support don't get what they need. If we took out the waste in the country we could provide that safety net for those who need it. At present too many fall through that net whilst many others simply abuse it.

I think Pauls comments are deserving of a bit more thought than that Koi.

Anyhow, seeing that in your world all things Conservative are good and all things not conservative are bad, how about a comment on the situation where the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has been allegedly giving £40000 to his partner, while claiming it back in expenses?

All this after he stood in front of the nation advising of the need to cut spending. All this after both the Tories and Liberals used the expenses scandal as a means to attack the last Government.

[tcj_jones]

Excellent post Paul. It reflects what a good man and father you are.

[koi]

I think Pauls comments are deserving of a bit more thought than that Koi.

Anyhow, seeing that in your world all things Conservative are good and all things not conservative are bad, how about a comment on the situation where the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has been allegedly giving £40000 to his partner, while claiming it back in expenses?

All this after he stood in front of the nation advising of the need to cut spending. All this after both the Tories and Liberals used the expenses scandal as a means to attack the last Government.

When I have said all things Conservative are good? I think Conservatism particularly One Nation Conservatism is closet to my thoughts and feelings but that's not to say I support it all. Anyway, Churchill summed it up perfectly for me; 'Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery'.

To go into Paul's posting in-depth is deserving of more a more eloquent poster than I.

Yes Mr Laws has been a bad boy and it's galling that the Lib Dems like to portray themselves as whiter than white. The Tories didn't attack Labour on expenses, I think you'll find the PM said ALL parties share the blame and he moved much quicker to put constraints on his party, a move followed by Labour I think you'll find. By the way, did the last government offer a 5% pay cut for all ministers? did it seriously reduce the number of ministerial cars? cut the perks of travelling first class? When it comes to wasting money I think Labour and their supporters should stay very quiet for a very long time.