[Archived] Election

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Of course all those who lose jobs in the public sector could go out and compete for jobs in the private sector.

Will they?

Of course they won't.

The real world would be far too frightening for them and would eat 'em alive in the time it takes to say 'return on investment'.

Look on the bright side Jim et al, once the coalition have rid us of the crippling debt loaded onto us by Labour we might have enough cash for some free kippers on the morning Highland Express.

What jobs ? There's 5 people chasing every job at the moment. The way the Tories are heading it'll be 10 people for every job soon. You could always come back from Australia and show us how it's done.

[Rover Down Under]

What jobs ? There's 5 people chasing every job at the moment. The way the Tories are heading it'll be 10 people for every job soon. You could always come back from Australia and show us how it's done.

Five? Is that all? I've applied for jobs with 100 applicants, still didn't stop me competing for them.

Let's just wait and see what happens rather than jumping to tired, predictable jibes and of course you wouldn't want to mention WHO GOT US IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE would you? No, it's been what, 8 weeks? so obviously it is entirely the coalitions fault and nothing at all to do with the 14 years of disastrous Labour rule preceding it

I can't come back from Australia as I want to be here to celebrate when the similarly useless, lying, wateful Labour Government here gets booted out, despite their pathetic, vile attempt to do anything to remain in power by dumping Krudd the dud and replacing him with Mrs. Neil Kinnock (Welsh, ginger, loony left).

[dave birch]

We don't have a "Labour" Party.

The Government of the day is held by the Australian Labor Party.

Despite it's tradition of being founded by workers in Queensland it now is more comfortable with the middle class and less about protecting "the worker". Further, it's now fairly remote from it's British counterpart

It's also the party that set the scene for Australia to avoid problems in the Asian meltdown (from which Japan has still to fully recover) and one of the main reason we didn't have banks imploding like they did overseas. All that Howard and Costello did was to ride on the back of the good work done by Hawke and then Keating.

What has totally ###### me off with the conservative side here is that they accumulated surplus after surplus when rebuilding infrastructure across the country would have been the way to go. Isn't that why we pay tax? A surplus is worth diddly squat, if your local hospital is crap.

I've lived here for over 40 years now, and the one thing that has stood out (politically) over that time is that the conservative side of politics believes that it is born to rule. I remember Bjelkie-Petersen (in QLD), Fraser (with Howard as his treasurer), Askin (in NSW). We here in NSW had a perfectly good conservative opposition leader in John Brogden. Do you know what happened to him? He was whiteanted, backstabbed etc by his own party to the extent that he attempted suicide. He would have won the next state election in NSW. Now tell me that the conservative side of politics know how to treat people, if this was the way they treat their leader, what are they going to do to the average joe?

Ask Costello what he thinks of Howard, it won't be praise, I can assure you.

RDU, have you ever thought why we have bad state Labor governments? It's because the electorate can only see the alternative as worse when voting. No doubt there'll be a time when electoral forgiveness kicks in and the Cons get a run.

The government of the day is only as good as the alternative allows it to be.

Finally, Governments need to be replaced from time to time. It creates a renewal within the party, gives them time to soul search. That applies to both left and right.

[thenodrog]

The Government of the day is held by the Australian Labor Party.

Despite it's tradition of being founded by workers in Queensland it now is more comfortable with the middle class and less about protecting "the worker".

Which side of the fence are you from dave? I might be wrong but I seem to rem that you have a trade but also run a business. Are you running with the hare or hunting with the hounds?

As a comment about this country I'd suggest that their are more white collar workers and not enough blue collar workers to elect an old fashioned belt, braces, flat cap party that is essentially a puppet of the trades unions.

Also "What has totally ###### me off with the conservative side here is that they accumulated surplus after surplus when rebuilding infrastructure across the country would have been the way to go. Isn't that why we pay tax? A surplus is worth diddly squat, if your local hospital is crap."

Do you spend every penny that you earn or have you squirreled some away for a rainy day? How about your business? Financially is your foot 'flat to the boards' with that too?

[dave birch]

Which side of the fence are you from dave? I might be wrong but I seem to rem that you have a trade but also run a business. Are you running with the hare or hunting with the hounds?

As a comment about this country I'd suggest that their are more white collar workers and not enough blue collar workers to elect an old fashioned belt, braces, flat cap party that is essentially a puppet of the trades unions.

Also "What has totally ###### me off with the conservative side here is that they accumulated surplus after surplus when rebuilding infrastructure across the country would have been the way to go. Isn't that why we pay tax? A surplus is worth diddly squat, if your local hospital is crap."

Do you spend every penny that you earn or have you squirreled some away for a rainy day? How about your business? Financially is your foot 'flat to the boards' with that too?

Theno, I'll admit to left leaning tendencies, but would happily see our State labor Government kicked out at the next election, despite having a very good looking American born premier. Google Kristina Keneally.

BTW, if ever your leaders want to introduce fixed terms, say no. They do not work, when you want to get rid, you can't do it unless they fall on their sword. I've yet to see a politician vote himself out.

About me, no, I have no trade, no degree, no qualifications, but run my own business and help my mrs run hers. We employ five people, shortly to be seven, been given no assistance by anyone including government and banks.

This country has been very kind to me, it's given me opportunities that I reckon I wouldn't have had in England.

My concern is for the government to be fair and equitable, not to favour one or the other. Not to pander to those that would want to sponge off society or to give to those that do not need. I want our government to do the right thing for all Australians. I don't want government to lie, as Howard did about the "kids overboard", or the "Tampa" incident, (you can google both for evidence).

Apropos spending everything, well, the government of the time squirreled away everything,(probably because they didn't want the state governments, all Labor at the time, to get any electoral benefit from improved services). Improving infrastructure would have benefited us all. They didn't need to spend it all.

I'm using my money to improve my stocks to provide SWMBO and myself with an income for when we give work away and I'm doing it outside the superannuation schemes that are here, because I don't want to be stuck by a change in legislation in the future.

[jim mk2]

Another day, another round of Tory cuts, only this time education secretary Michael Gove is targetting Labour's schools building programme in the Con-Dem government's desire to return Britain to the dark ages and public squalor of the 1980s. Cameron was true to his word when he said "We're all in this together" because now Britain's schoolchildren are having to pay the price of the greed and incompetance of the private sector with decrepit classrooms and poor facilities.

Cameron would never come clean about his true intentions over cuts before the election but it is now glaringly apparent that the Tory manifesto should have read:

1. Make the dole queues 2m longer, justified by pessimistic assumptions about the structural deficit driven by unrealistical assumptions about the size of the output gap.

2. Wage war on "welfare scroungers" with aim of denying benefits to newly unemployed and disabled.

3. Use mass unemployment as excuse to abolish minimum wage and push wages downwards.

4. Use poor quality public services resulting from cash-strapped public services and loss of best staff due to severe pay cuts and 35% staff cuts as justification for privatisation to trim state down to 20% GDP

5. Use smaller state to cut taxes for the 10% of the population earning more than £40k.

After barely 2 months in power, this evil government has been exposed as morally bankrupt.

[tashor]

Another day, another round of Tory cuts, only this time education secretary Michael Gove is targetting Labour's schools building programme in the Con-Dem government's desire to return Britain to the dark ages and public squalor of the 1980s. Cameron was true to his word when he said "We're all in this together" because now Britain's schoolchildren are having to pay the price of the greed and incompetance of the private sector with decrepit classrooms and poor facilities.

Cameron would never come clean about his true intentions over cuts before the election but it is now glaringly apparent that the Tory manifesto should have read:

1. Make the dole queues 2m longer, justified by pessimistic assumptions about the structural deficit driven by unrealistical assumptions about the size of the output gap.

2. Wage war on "welfare scroungers" with aim of denying benefits to newly unemployed and disabled.

3. Use mass unemployment as excuse to abolish minimum wage and push wages downwards.

4. Use poor quality public services resulting from cash-strapped public services and loss of best staff due to severe pay cuts and 35% staff cuts as justification for privatisation to trim state down to 20% GDP

5. Use smaller state to cut taxes for the 10% of the population earning more than £40k.

After barely 2 months in power, this evil government has been exposed as morally bankrupt.

Bloody right ............. another great day for Tory Britain...........

Everything we've always wanted and we have the corrupt ineptness of your siamese twins bLiar and bRuin to thank for giving Us the justification.........

Three cheers for Us and R labourLapDogs..........

Hurrah !! Hurrah !! Hurrah ................

[tashor]

Know your enemy.........

[adopted scouser]

Know your enemy.........

Brilliant link

[thenodrog]

Another day, another round of Tory cuts, only this time education secretary Michael Gove is targetting Labour's schools building programme in the Con-Dem government's desire to return Britain to the dark ages and public squalor of the 1980s. Cameron was true to his word when he said "We're all in this together" because now Britain's schoolchildren are having to pay the price of the greed and incompetance of the private sector with decrepit classrooms and poor facilities.

Since when did sitting a new building increase IQ? The oldest school in BwD is prob Qegs whilst the newer ones built in the last 50 years like Darwen Moorland, Witton, Billinge etc are hardly setting the world on fire in academic achievment are they? Try again Jim.

btw Did anyone detect the comecy moment on the news this morning when some MP from the Lpool area whinged about halting building new schools and how it would adversly affect performance to the detriment of the country ...... from the centuries old Palace of Westminster!!! Whether he has a point or not is irrelevent but I'm sure that he'll be so far up his own arse that he wont spot the irony.

btw2 I quite like the way that Michael Gove is shaping up. Like most ministers in the new govt he's been scandalously left in a difficult position but he's squaring up to the task very well. I think he could go far.

[Billy Castell]

Teaching techniques are more important than pretty glass and steel buildings. Whilst a science lesson in a portacabin is difficult, and has serious drawbacks, all the facilities in the world are useless when it is put to use with a crap education system and a bad teacher. I'm no education expert, but we should be looking at Taiwan, South Korea etc. to see what they do, as their education is consistently rated the best.

As for the Tories, they were given a poisoned chalice by being in government, but you can tell that they're loving the fact they can get away with doing a Norman Tebbit, and putting as many public sector workers out of a job as possible. Now, it needs to be done, as the finances are so bad, but there's no need to take such pleasure in ending people's jobs. It's as if the golfist is in charge.

[LeChuck]

Just got a text from my friend this morning, a few of the graduate jobs at his company will be axed later this year (including his) because the government has pulled two contracts, I think they put IT systems into schools.

I'm genuinely curious to know this; how is the private sector expected to ease unemployment in the face of such events seeing as it's obviously not just public sector jobs that are going to be lost?

That's not a backhanded dig at the Tories, I'm really wondering how it's expected to work.

[Paul]

Five? Is that all? I've applied for jobs with 100 applicants, still didn't stop me competing for them.

Let's just wait and see what happens rather than jumping to tired, predictable jibes and of course you wouldn't want to mention WHO GOT US IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE would you? No, it's been what, 8 weeks? so obviously it is entirely the coalitions fault and nothing at all to do with the 14 years of disastrous Labour rule preceding it

I can't come back from Australia as I want to be here to celebrate when the similarly useless, lying, wateful Labour Government here gets booted out, despite their pathetic, vile attempt to do anything to remain in power by dumping Krudd the dud and replacing him with Mrs. Neil Kinnock (Welsh, ginger, loony left).

Thanks for that one, gave me a really good laugh. I love the language used by those who apparently support more right wing views, it's always so rounded and civilised.

While I fully agree there is a need to re-balance the books and broadly support the idea I have yet to see a member of the current government explain how it is going to work. Little doubt there is waste which needs to be addressed; my wife works in the NHS and the stories she tells makes this very clear to me. However I remain sceptical as to the methods being used, who the longterm beneficiaries will be and I simply do not believe the private sector will create the 2.5 million new jobs being forecast, and needed, over the next five years. I'm just very, very glad to be in work, hopefully secure work because there are not going to be jobs for huge numbers of our population whatever the government may think.

[BuckyRover]

I'm not quite sure there is any alternative. Even if we stick to this severe plan, government debt has doubled in the last 10 years, will double again in 5 years and will quadruple by 2040. At which point 1/3 of Government spending will be used to service the debt.

I got this from the Adam Smith Institute. This is what we have been left with. Everytime i see a snivelling (Ed Balls in particular) Labour minister moaning about the nasty Tories, I want to punch them in the face.

If we are having to spend 25% more than we earn to stimulate tepid growth, with no real idea where future growth is going to come from, I would say that is not a responsible thing to do. Gamble with the future of our country, it's almost criminal.

[jim mk2]

Gamble with the future of our country, it's almost criminal.

I agree. Osborne is condemning more than 1m public sector workers to the dole (official figures) in the vague hope that the private sector will take up the slack. He is cynically playing the electoral cycle and risking the future prosperity of Britain all in the name of ideology. There is no guarantee it will work and think-tank studies have been published saying he is more likely to cause the economy to go into another recession. Labour had already set in place cuts that would have halved the deficit anyway by 2014 - 15 with NO compulsory job losses. This programme of cuts is neither inevitable nor necessary as the Tories have conned the public into believing. The Tories cuts are indeed criminal.

[ultrablue]

I'm no education expert, but we should be looking at Taiwan, South Korea etc. to see what they do, as their education is consistently rated the best.

Parents in Korea spend 20% of their monthly expenditure on private afterschool classes for their kids. Thats only a little less than they spend on food. Most children in their teens go to some academic institute from 8am to 10pm.

[JAL]

I'm not quite sure there is any alternative. Even if we stick to this severe plan, government debt has doubled in the last 10 years, will double again in 5 years and will quadruple by 2040. At which point 1/3 of Government spending will be used to service the debt.

I got this from the Adam Smith Institute. This is what we have been left with. Everytime i see a snivelling (Ed Balls in particular) Labour minister moaning about the nasty Tories, I want to punch them in the face.

If we are having to spend 25% more than we earn to stimulate tepid growth, with no real idea where future growth is going to come from, I would say that is not a responsible thing to do. Gamble with the future of our country, it's almost criminal.

If that is anywhere near true, then its surely telling us to go and set up somewhwere else outside of the UK.

[BuckyRover]

I agree. Osborne is condemning more than 1m public sector workers to the dole (official figures) in the vague hope that the private sector will take up the slack. He is cynically playing the electoral cycle and risking the future prosperity of Britain all in the name of ideology. There is no guarantee it will work and think-tank studies have been published saying he is more likely to cause the economy to go into another recession. Labour had already set in place cuts that would have halved the deficit anyway by 2014 - 15 with NO compulsory job losses. This programme of cuts is neither inevitable nor necessary as the Tories have conned the public into believing. The Tories cuts are indeed criminal.

Now you are just lying. Labour said that the cuts would be worse than under Thatcher, whoever got into power. The Conservatives have already saved circa 78,000 posts that Labour would have already shed. You are a deluded Internet troll. There is no way on earth the cuts necessary could be done without job losses, this is why Labour haven't provided a credible alternative, there isn't one.

There is definitely a risk of going back into recession, especially considering the fact that the government has been printing money to give the illusion of growth. The private sector needs to grow to grow the economy. The British Chamber of Commerce has broadly welcomed the emergency budget.

This is the last time I will reply to jim on this thread. He doesn't believe what he is saying and lies to justify his beliefs. I have voted for all of the main three political parties in my time, I am a swing voter and one that determines the outcome of elections. jim is not.

[Billy Castell]

Parents in Korea spend 20% of their monthly expenditure on private afterschool classes for their kids. Thats only a little less than they spend on food. Most children in their teens go to some academic institute from 8am to 10pm.

Good lord. Did't realise it was that much of a factory process. I wouldn't go quite that far, but we could probably pick up tips from these countries without turning children into robots.

[jim mk2]

He doesn't believe what he is saying and lies to justify his beliefs.

It was pointed out earlier that the right always get abusive when they know they are in the wrong and you are another example.

Meanwhile, it was reported today that the economic recovery is starting to fade as a result of Osborne's public spending squeeze. The Markit/CIPS purchasing managers' index survey, a monthly snapshot of the services sector, recorded the largest-drop in business expectations in its 14-year history last month. The headline index dropped to 54.4 from 55.4, the lowest since last August. "It is a shockingly weak result for the proponents of the idea of a V-shaped recovery in the UK," said Lena Komileva, an economist at Tullett Prebon. "This is the beginning of a W-shaped scenario as the survey clearly shows the recovery momentum has peaked.The British Chambers of Commerce today highlights sluggish growth in services as a serious concern and warns that "underlying weaknesses in the economy remain, which cannot be ignored if we are to avoid a relapse into recession". The PMI survey said the government's austerity measures had undermined confidence among service sector firms, which account for three-quarters of the UK economy.

The equivalent survey for manufacturing last week showed a sharp slowdown in export orders in June. Many service sector firms are struggling to export, the BCC's survey for the second quarter shows today, while manufacturers achieved the highest sales abroad in nearly four years.

These latest surveys will be a huge blow to Osborne who is depending on the economic recovery and private sector growth to create the jobs that his public sector cuts are deliberately destroying. In another blow to the Con-Dems, it was also reported today that Alan Budd, the chairman of the new Office for Budget Responsibility, is to step down after only three months in the job. The odds on Osborne's gamble on the ideological restructuring of the economy succeeding are getting longer.

[BuckyRover]

How interesting that you omit what the BCCs Chief Economist said when talking about the threat to the service industry and instead quoted somebody from an obscure company, Tullet Prebon. Here is what David Kern from the BCC said:

"Although we're champions of manufacturing, it's a worry for the whole economy that services are not strong," he said, pointing out that private-sector services activity was still half its long-run average, despite the recent pick-up.

"We now have in place very tight fiscal policy for the next few years. We think it's necessary, but this means the risk of a double-dip recession is greater and makes it more necessary for the Bank of England to keep interest rates low."

See the key word? NECESSARY

Of course the road will be rocky, this is the situation we are in.

[thenodrog]

It was pointed out earlier that the right always get abusive when they know they are in the wrong and you are another example.

A quick glance back through most of your posts on this thread suggest that you are habitually abusive so either talking out of your arse or you are some distance to the right of Baroness Thatcher. Which is it?

[Billy Castell]

So which are you Gordon? Pot or Kettle?

[tashor]

..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[jim mk2]

Next year's general election that will be called after the inevitable collapse the Con-Dems coalition over electoral reform will be fought by a revitalised Labour party after Harriet Harman revealed last night that the party has been bolstered by an unprecedented surge of new members who have signed up to oppose the Con-Dem coalition.

Some 21,000 people had joined the party since the general election as part of what the acting Labour leader hailed as an "emerging political movement'' on the left.

Almost a third of the new members were Lib Dem voters dismayed by that party's partnership in power with the Tories, she said. Half were Labour voters who were now especially determined to get the party back into power.

``Clearly, the sight of David Cameron and Nick Clegg in the rose garden of Number 10 had a stunning effect,'' she said, referring to the first joint press conference by the prime minister and his deputy. In a speech to the Fabians, Ms Harman said the increase in membership had helped ensure Labour was ``in good heart and good spirits'' despite its general election defeat..

The surge was ``unprecedented'' and would ``change our party for good'', she went on. ``There is an emerging political movement happening amongst progressives in Britain,'' she said. ``They see that the Tory-Lib Dem government has no mandate. They see there's a big difference between what they thought they voted for and what they ended up with - and they just aren't comfortable with it. They are coming to join Labour because they reject the Tory-Lib Dem government and because they see Labour as their vehicle for progressive, value-driven change. We will build on this incredible surge of positive energy and enthusiasm from our new MPs and from our new members. They are the shot in the arm we need to mobilise, organise and revitalise.''