[Archived] Election

[JAL]

I'm not quite sure there is any alternative. Even if we stick to this severe plan, government debt has doubled in the last 10 years, will double again in 5 years and will quadruple by 2040. At which point 1/3 of Government spending will be used to service the debt.

I got this from the Adam Smith Institute. This is what we have been left with. Everytime i see a snivelling (Ed Balls in particular) Labour minister moaning about the nasty Tories, I want to punch them in the face.

If we are having to spend 25% more than we earn to stimulate tepid growth, with no real idea where future growth is going to come from, I would say that is not a responsible thing to do. Gamble with the future of our country, it's almost criminal.

Bucky, its all a grand design to shake up the public sector by making sure everybody in future contributes a darn sight more to efficiency output, for a lot less financialy than previously.

....and along the way bring down every lower class worker in order to allow the paymasters their continued and increased comforts.

has this not always been the case and dont blame the previous government as they were ALL IN IT TOGETHER.

[Rover Down Under]

We don't have a "Labour" Party.

The Government of the day is held by the Australian Labor Party.

Despite it's tradition of being founded by workers in Queensland it now is more comfortable with the middle class and less about protecting "the worker". Further, it's now fairly remote from it's British counterpart

It's also the party that set the scene for Australia to avoid problems in the Asian meltdown (from which Japan has still to fully recover) and one of the main reason we didn't have banks imploding like they did overseas. All that Howard and Costello did was to ride on the back of the good work done by Hawke and then Keating.

What has totally ###### me off with the conservative side here is that they accumulated surplus after surplus when rebuilding infrastructure across the country would have been the way to go. Isn't that why we pay tax? A surplus is worth diddly squat, if your local hospital is crap.

I've lived here for over 40 years now, and the one thing that has stood out (politically) over that time is that the conservative side of politics believes that it is born to rule. I remember Bjelkie-Petersen (in QLD), Fraser (with Howard as his treasurer), Askin (in NSW). We here in NSW had a perfectly good conservative opposition leader in John Brogden. Do you know what happened to him? He was whiteanted, backstabbed etc by his own party to the extent that he attempted suicide. He would have won the next state election in NSW. Now tell me that the conservative side of politics know how to treat people, if this was the way they treat their leader, what are they going to do to the average joe?

Ask Costello what he thinks of Howard, it won't be praise, I can assure you.

RDU, have you ever thought why we have bad state Labor governments? It's because the electorate can only see the alternative as worse when voting. No doubt there'll be a time when electoral forgiveness kicks in and the Cons get a run.

The government of the day is only as good as the alternative allows it to be.

Finally, Governments need to be replaced from time to time. It creates a renewal within the party, gives them time to soul search. That applies to both left and right.

I admit I don't know a lot about Aussie politics yet as I haven't been here long enough. However, Labour here is VERY similar to British Labour and despite claims it no longer represents the workers is surprisingly beholden to the Unions, who are NOT elected to run the country - yet are entirely capable of removing a Prime Minister.

The claims that Labour somehow avoided the Asian financial meltdown, rather like the current claims they avoided the GFC, are deceptive. Japan was already in trouble and '97 affected the tiger economies which Australia had little investment in and neglible trade, it did not touch Australia because it wasn't a major sphere of ecomomic influence for them. Similarly the GFC was largely avoided down under because the banks here did not buy huge amounts of junk, they were too busy financing coal and iron ore companies. As China continued to grow, albeit at a slower rate, during 2008/9, so did Australia, at a slower rate. No coincidence - China determines Australian economic prosperity.

If Howard and Costello did not spend the surplus then more the fool them because this Labour Government (as Labour Governments generally do) has taken it and blown the lot. And what have they spent it on?

- Billions on a housing insualtion scheme that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

- Billions on a school building program that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

- Billions on a home energy efficiency scheme that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

Seeing a pattern here? Seeing any similarities with British Labour?

So now the public are p'd off what happens? Rudd out, Gillard in. And what does she do? Reverse every decision (mining tax and now boat people) that they berated the Libs for YEARS for, could they be any more disingenuous? Their desperation to remain in power has seen Labour adopt Coalition policies that they vehemently opposed and slaughtered them for, talk about sell outs.

Let's not even mention the blood on this Labour Government's hands - 4 dead from home insulation fires and potentially hundreds more to come from suicides of Asian International students as Labour tries to force through it's evil Visa Cap and Kill legislation (that the Unions had a large part in). When policies that haven't even been put on the statute books are causing people to commit suicide the potential suicide of a Conservative leader who was backstabbed is insignificant. I wonder if Rudd thought about an overdose after he was so ruthlessly culled?

Odd though that at a State level the parties are very different. South Australia is Labour and they're not too bad, certainly better than the alternatives.

I just hope people have wised up to Labour here and that they remember that under Howard things were actually pretty good. Last time round people were deceived by messages that have turned out to be false promises, lies and cynical campaining (typical Labour) so I hope anyone but Labour can get back into power by being slightly less crap than the current UNELECTED leader is.

They see there's a big difference between what they thought they voted for and what they ended up with - and they just aren't comfortable with it.

Isn't this the epitaph of the last (and every) Labour Government?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Since when did sitting a new building increase IQ? The oldest school in BwD is prob Qegs whilst the newer ones built in the last 50 years like Darwen Moorland, Witton, Billinge etc are hardly setting the world on fire in academic achievment are they? Try again Jim.

btw Did anyone detect the comecy moment on the news this morning when some MP from the Lpool area whinged about halting building new schools and how it would adversly affect performance to the detriment of the country ...... from the centuries old Palace of Westminster!!! Whether he has a point or not is irrelevent but I'm sure that he'll be so far up his own arse that he wont spot the irony.

btw2 I quite like the way that Michael Gove is shaping up. Like most ministers in the new govt he's been scandalously left in a difficult position but he's squaring up to the task very well. I think he could go far.

Ha Ha Ha. I think he'll go far as well, quite soon.

[philipl]

If you look at many of the countries in the east, the mindset is that it is socially totally irresponsible not to achieve academically.

The problem in the west is we are carrying about 25% of the population as educational failures whereas in the east that figure is around 5%.

[dave birch]

I admit I don't know a lot about Aussie politics yet as I haven't been here long enough. However, Labour here is VERY similar to British Labour and despite claims it no longer represents the workers is surprisingly beholden to the Unions, who are NOT elected to run the country - yet are entirely capable of removing a Prime Minister.

The claims that Labour somehow avoided the Asian financial meltdown, rather like the current claims they avoided the GFC, are deceptive. Japan was already in trouble and '97 affected the tiger economies which Australia had little investment in and neglible trade, it did not touch Australia because it wasn't a major sphere of ecomomic influence for them. Similarly the GFC was largely avoided down under because the banks here did not buy huge amounts of junk, they were too busy financing coal and iron ore companies. As China continued to grow, albeit at a slower rate, during 2008/9, so did Australia, at a slower rate. No coincidence - China determines Australian economic prosperity.

If Howard and Costello did not spend the surplus then more the fool them because this Labour Government (as Labour Governments generally do) has taken it and blown the lot. And what have they spent it on?

- Billions on a housing insualtion scheme that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

- Billions on a school building program that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

- Billions on a home energy efficiency scheme that was utterly rorted, has been a complete disaster and will cost several billions more to be put right

Seeing a pattern here? Seeing any similarities with British Labour?

So now the public are p'd off what happens? Rudd out, Gillard in. And what does she do? Reverse every decision (mining tax and now boat people) that they berated the Libs for YEARS for, could they be any more disingenuous? Their desperation to remain in power has seen Labour adopt Coalition policies that they vehemently opposed and slaughtered them for, talk about sell outs.

Let's not even mention the blood on this Labour Government's hands - 4 dead from home insulation fires and potentially hundreds more to come from suicides of Asian International students as Labour tries to force through it's evil Visa Cap and Kill legislation (that the Unions had a large part in). When policies that haven't even been put on the statute books are causing people to commit suicide the potential suicide of a Conservative leader who was backstabbed is insignificant. I wonder if Rudd thought about an overdose after he was so ruthlessly culled?

Odd though that at a State level the parties are very different. South Australia is Labour and they're not too bad, certainly better than the alternatives.

I just hope people have wised up to Labour here and that they remember that under Howard things were actually pretty good. Last time round people were deceived by messages that have turned out to be false promises, lies and cynical campaining (typical Labour) so I hope anyone but Labour can get back into power by being slightly less crap than the current UNELECTED leader is.

Isn't this the epitaph of the last (and every) Labour Government?/quote]

Once again, we don't have a "Labour" party here. The Government of the day is held by the Australian Labor Party. If you can't be bothered to get the basic right, why should any other information presented be correct?

RDU, you firstly admit to not having been here long enough to know enough of Australian politics, but then launch into everything that you think is wrong about the current Government. I'd suggest that you do a bit more research, particularly about the Asian crash and the dealings that Australia had with countries in this region.

One thing that irks me is the way you say that this government has "blood on it's hands". This is just right wing spin, as any death of any person introduced into a political debate shows how low the liberal (conservative) party have got.

Let me give you some information.

"In March 2009 the Australian Government's Safety and Compensation Council, using ABS data, reported 'the COST OF WORK- RELATED INJURY AND ILLNESS FOR AUSTRALIAN EMPLOYERS, WORKERS AND THE COMMUNITY:2005-06.'

This report updates the report released by the National Occupational Health and Safety Commission (NOHSC) in 2004 which estimated the total cost of work-related injuries and illnesses for the year 2000-01 to be 34 billion dollars or 5 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).

Key findings of the report include:

The total economic cost of work-related injuries and illnesses for the 2005-06 financial year is estimated to be 57.5 billion dollars, representing 5.9 per cent of GDP for the 2005-06 financial year.

This represents a significant increase in costs as a proportion of GDP from the 2000-01 estimate which was 5 per cent of GDP

Tony Abbott was Minister for Health in 2005 when 1,790 people died at work for the year and 39,510 people were fully incapacitated and 14 people died by electrocution, (6 were electricians). 2 people suffered heat related deaths. All on his watch. "

He now has the gall to use the recent tragedies of 4 deaths at work for his political purposes.

This, on top of the "Tampa" and "Children Overboard" incidents.

Housing insulation: It will not take "Billions" to rectify.

School BER: There are some complaints from schools. Maybe ten or twenty, one that will need to be demolished and rebuilt. Claims against builders who have provided shoddy work or overcharged will be made.

Home energy Scheme: Here's that word "billions" again, and "Billions" to fix. Just what needs fixing here?

I'll tell you what RDU, get some stats to back up your claim, and not just quotes from the local Liberal hack

RDU, I could carry on, but I'll leave at this:

There is a reason that the Howard government got shafted. They lied and lied constantly, so much so that Howard lost his own seat. It's not often a Prime Minister loses his seat.

I'm not that "left" that when Labor (note the spelling) get voted out, I accept it, and acknowledge that the majority has made a decision. All I expect is for the opposition to show an alternative and to prove that they are worthy of a vote in future.

Governments can be in too long, they get stale. To have one side as the Government of the day is (to my mind) not good for a country (or State for that matter), but you have to look deeper as to why they stay in power. Generally it's because the opposition is so crap, that the electorate cannot bring themselves to vote in the opposition.

My apologies to those in England for hi-jacking the thread, but some points about our politics needed to be put straight.

[Rover Down Under]

Once again, we don't have a "Labour" party here. The Government of the day is held by the Australian Labor Party. If you can't be bothered to get the basic right, why should any other information presented be correct?

I can't spell a mis-spelt word, woe is me.

"In March 2009 the Australian Government's Safety and Compensation Council, using ABS data, reported 'the COST OF WORK- RELATED INJURY AND ILLNESS FOR AUSTRALIAN EMPLOYERS, WORKERS AND THE COMMUNITY:2005-06.'

This report updates the report released by the National Occupational Health and Safety Commission (NOHSC) in 2004 which estimated the total cost of work-related injuries and illnesses for the year 2000-01 to be 34 billion dollars or 5 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).

Key findings of the report include:

The total economic cost of work-related injuries and illnesses for the 2005-06 financial year is estimated to be 57.5 billion dollars, representing 5.9 per cent of GDP for the 2005-06 financial year.

This represents a significant increase in costs as a proportion of GDP from the 2000-01 estimate which was 5 per cent of GDP

Tony Abbott was Minister for Health in 2005 when 1,790 people died at work for the year and 39,510 people were fully incapacitated and 14 people died by electrocution, (6 were electricians). 2 people suffered heat related deaths. All on his watch. "

...

I'll tell you what RDU, get some stats to back up your claim, and not just quotes from the local Liberal hack

So it's OK for you to quote a LabOR hack? Difference is I bet the 14 people who died by electrocution in 2005 were not the result of a poorly implemented Government program. I suppose no-one, other than the 4 housing insualtion deaths, has died under LabOR have they?

As for stats:

'Home insulation scheme could cost $1 billion to fix' (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/home-insulation-scheme-could-cost-1-billion-to-fix/story-e6freooo-1225839748953)

There is a reason that the Howard government got shafted. They lied and lied constantly, so much so that Howard lost his own seat. It's not often a Prime Minister loses his seat.

Does it happen as often as a Prime Minister being replaced in his first term after being hacked down by his own party I wonder?

Governments can be in too long, they get stale. To have one side as the Government of the day is (to my mind) not good for a country (or State for that matter), but you have to look deeper as to why they stay in power. Generally it's because the opposition is so crap, that the electorate cannot bring themselves to vote in the opposition.

If the opposition cannot get rid of this Government then they don't even deserve to be in opposition. I strongly believe in the right to be able to vote for "No suitable candidate" in any election, unfortunately most of the rest of the World does not, save for a few U.S States. It is largely because people are forced to vote against other parties that we have such lame politicians and parties, you only have to be slightly less crap than the opposition which doesn't exactly set the bar high.

[jim mk2]

btw2 I quite like the way that Michael Gove is shaping up. Like most ministers in the new govt he's been scandalously left in a difficult position but he's squaring up to the task very well. I think he could go far.

Gove is indeed going far... all round the country to say sorry for his schools gaffe.

http://www.politics....r-$21381350.htm

[dave birch]

RDU, mis-spelt several times, and ignored after the first reply!

Australian Government Departments are more likely to come up with a more objective assessment than some agenda ridden news organisation. They were, after all, quoting ABS statistics obtained when the Liberal Party were in Government.

From your quote, which talks of less than "billions":

"Opposition climate action spokesman Greg Hunt said the Government may have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to find and fix electrified roofs. "We are looking at a figure that according to the experts of about $450 million," he told 2GB yesterday." and we know that politicians have a penchant for exaggeration, don't we?

The fact that Rudd got shafted probably highlights the weakness in the Liberal Party when Costello was promised the top job, and Howard refused to stand aside. The power brokers of the Liberal Party were unable to find the wherewithall to knife Howard. Had they done so, then there was a better than even chance that Costello would now be PM.

You have the right to spoil your vote by writing "No Suitable Candidate" on it. A similar tactic was used when the "No Dams" debate was going on in Tasmania. The "Informal Vote" tally increased markedly at the General Election at that time. It stopped the Dam being built on the Franklin and caused Bob Hawke (I think it was him) to be more aware of what the populace was thinking.

[broadsword]

Gove is indeed going far... all round the country to say sorry for his schools gaffe.

He's not teh only politician in the last few months who's had to make a humble apology, eh?

[tashor]

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.................

[BuckyRover]

I find it very telling, that when the emergency budget was announced our former Great Leader didn't even make an appearance.

Thanks for everything Gordon.

I find it very telling, that when the emergency budget was announced our former Great Leader didn't even make an appearance.

Thanks for everything Gordon.

[jim mk2]

edit

[Al]

I find it very telling, that when the emergency budget was announced our former Great Leader didn't even make an appearance.

Thanks for everything Gordon.

I find it very telling, that when the emergency budget was announced our former Great Leader didn't even make an appearance.

Thanks for everything Gordon.

Need to correct that stammer Bucky.

[thenodrog]

[/url]

I may be stupid Jim... but unlike you I do pay up when I've lost a bet.

No rush though. I don't need the money at the moment but most of all I do quite like you being indebted to me!

[den]

Just an update to a topic that I discussed during the election campaign.

It appears as though the new coalition government is going to provide the necessary cancer drugs to patients that need them. This will benefit particularly people with rarer cancers that the National Institute For Clinical Excellence are regualrly denying.

We still need to see the exact detail of how this will work, but we seem to be moving towards the clinical effectiveness of these drugs being the main criteria, which is the right way to go. Thanks also to the people who supported a petition on my behalf.

Daily Mail.

[roversmum]

That's such good news, Den.

As Granny used to day, "If you don't ask, you don't get".

[den]

That's such good news, Den.

As Granny used to day, "If you don't ask, you don't get".

Thanks Mum. If we are to get Cancer survival rates up, then we need to do three things. We need to screen for it wherever possible, we need educate where needed and we need to provide the effective drugs where available.

Good news day though.

[BuckyRover]

You should be thanking Labour not the coalition [/Jim]

[roversmum]

Thanks Mum. If we are to get Cancer survival rates up, then we need to do three things. We need to screen for it wherever possible, we need educate where needed and we need to provide the effective drugs where available.

Good news day though.

Absolutely. Preventative medicine needs to be at the forefront. It's no good being half baked about these things, and it does save money (and lives) in the end.

I've an issue with physiotherapy at the moment, Miss Roversmum had to leave her Ballet Degree course because of shoulder injury that should have been treated sooner, as recommended by the consultant we waited for physio, that didn't happen, now one year later after eventual investigations and some strong letters from me to the PCT, her new physio wants a second opinion from consultant as she believes Miss R needs an operation. Miss R has enrolled on an academic university course at Loughborough to start in September and this could now be in jeopardy because of all the messing around. Aaaaarrrgggghhhh

[jim mk2]

Labour has narrowed the gap with the Tories to just 2 points, according to an opinion poll published last night by Ipsos Mori. The poll is the latest evidence that the Lib Dems have suffered most since the formation of the coalition with their support down 5 points to 14 per cent. By contrast Labour has jumped seven to 38 per cent, only marginally behind the Tories. Labour is expected to consolidate its position this autumn when it announces a new leader and the Con Dem govt's public sector cuts start to take their toll on the economy and jobs. The coalition will come under further pressure in the spring when the Lib Dems' holy grail of electoral reform is scheduled to be debated and likely to split the partnership with Clegg in favour and Cameron against. By this time next year Labour could be back in power after a snap general election is called following the collapse of the government. Happy days.

[Paul]

Absolutely. Preventative medicine needs to be at the forefront. It's no good being half baked about these things, and it does save money (and lives) in the end.

Congratulations Den, excellent news which I'm pleased to have heard widely reported on the radio yesterday.

Of course you and rovermum could not be more right with regard to preventative medicine. Sadly there are already signs government cuts will target these areas as they are not frontline. People should be very aware the new government has promised to protect frontline services, which means the Friday night drunk will still get treated in A&E, but will certainly cut the important services which operate in the background. Educating people on the longterm health implications of their actions is about as cost effective as you can get, yet many such programmes were under scrutiny by the Labour administration and are already coming under renewed, increased pressure from the ConDeM government.

Aside from the short-term job losses and lack of support to many less-affluent communities the long-term health implications, and the assocciated costs, are scary. Intervention and education at a very young age are enormously effective and must not be ignored.

[thenodrog]

Labour has narrowed the gap with the Tories to just 2 points, according to an opinion poll published last night by Ipsos Mori. The poll is the latest evidence that the Lib Dems have suffered most since the formation of the coalition with their support down 5 points to 14 per cent. By contrast Labour has jumped seven to 38 per cent, only marginally behind the Tories. Labour is expected to consolidate its position this autumn when it announces a new leader and the Con Dem govt's public sector cuts start to take their toll on the economy and jobs. The coalition will come under further pressure in the spring when the Lib Dems' holy grail of electoral reform is scheduled to be debated and likely to split the partnership with Clegg in favour and Cameron against. By this time next year Labour could be back in power after a snap general election is called following the collapse of the government. Happy days.

The plane..... The plane boss.

[Flopsy]

But up 7 in another.

[BuckyRover]

Jim. You had better hope we go into recession again and a lot of people suffer a lot of additional pain, otherwise Labour won't be back for a while.

The people won't vote Labour back in after less than one full term. No chance.

[dave birch]

Jim. You had better hope we go into recession again and a lot of people suffer a lot of additional pain, otherwise Labour won't be back for a while.

The people won't vote Labour back in after less than one full term. No chance.

The one thing I have learnt in my time on this earth is, "never say never", particularly when politicians are in the equation.