[Archived] Election

[BuckyRover]

The Unions, aka the millitant wing of the Labour party.

They should all be disolved and, as much a I hate quangos, be replaced with bodies set up to analyze disputes with an unbiased standpoint and tighter employment laws.

That's why they have employment tribunals. I'm not part of a union but there are avenues for me to go do down if I was to be treated unfairly.

I do not see the point of Unions in the twenty first century.

It seems Bob Crow thinks that everybody is in it together, apart from public sector workers. (Some would add bankers to that but I know of bankers that have lost jobs in the last few years, just the other week RBS announced redundancies including at an office I worked in a few years ago).

Interesting times ahead.

[den]

I'm not part of a union

I do not see the point of Unions in the twenty first century.

There are benefits of being in a Union Bucky. Unions are nothing like the force they were, but they do a lot of great work.

[BuckyRover]

http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/AboutUs/aboutUs.htm

You don't need to pay subs to keep Bob Crow in his £100k+ job (with a 12% payrise this year).

[Guest bluerovers]

Unions say they are there to "protect workers' rights" but by implication that means workers' rights are under threat. The solution to me then seems tighten and enforce employment law!! Surely the whole point of employment law is to define what is and what isn't fair, for grey areas or new issues an independant tribunal should decide.

Unions are there to 'take the side' of the employee and don't dismiss a case because they think the employee is wrong, but only when they know threatening strikes won't work/isn't worth it and their leaders often come across as bigger bullies than the rich manager bloke they are trying to demonize.

If they didn't bankroll the Labour party it wouldn't be so bad but I see how an organisation that can control/influence so many workers and whether they strike or not can be seen as fair or unbiased when they are so highly politicised.

Bob Crowe's technique of reinforcing the myth that all rich employers want to do is screw over the "working man" (because deliberately treating your staff badly is a great business decision isn't it?) is pathetic and usually backed up with ignorance. Like blaming the bankers solely for the financial crisis, as far as I understand it it was bankers giving 100% mortgages/loans to people that couldn't afford to pay it back so to me there's two parties in that relationship and thus two people to blame.

What Crowe's argument is basically saying is that working class people are too thick to understand they shouldn't take out loans they can't repay and that as more intelligent people the bankers should then take 100% of the blame.

Drug dealers wouldn't exist without drug users, and pbankers wouldn't have been able to give bad loans if there weren't any people willing to accept them. It reminds me of when fat people try to sue McDonald's

[philipl]

Bob Crowe - what a prat!

[JAL]

Rather than cause strikes and disruption the unions should pick a bank or financial institution and instruct its members to take all their money out of it, as a protest aginst their obscene, unfair, totally unjustified, salaries, and bonuses, of the top people in that or those organisations.

If this in turn starts a run on a bank or institution, then what bigger, damming a message could the unions aided with the common people possibly deliver without causing its peaceful members and their employers any unecessary pain.

[jim mk2]

If this in turn starts a run on a bank or institution, then what bigger, damming a message could the unions aided with the common people possibly deliver without causing its peaceful members and their employers any unecessary pain.

The problem is the bank would have to be rescued by the taxpayer again. The greed and incompetance of the private sector has already caused enough damage to the economy over the past 3 years with the worst recession since the 1930s, so although a bank going bust would send a welcome message to the City that it is not immune from the socially divisive and unnecessary pain about to be afflicted on the public sector I doubt if it would do much good. A better way to rein in the banks and the excesses of the private sector in general would be stiffer regulation which so far has been embraced by the likes of France and Germany but resisted by the US and Britain. The lessons of the recession have yet to be learnt it would seem.

[sleepyjack]

Everyone felt sorry for the New Orleans residents in 2005 but nobody felt sorry for their Government ... Therefore nobody donated.

OT, I know, but speak for yourself. Over $4bn was donated to various nonprofit organizations.

[thenodrog]

The problem is the bank would have to be rescued by the taxpayer again. The greed and incompetance of the private sector has already caused enough damage to the economy over the past 3 years with the worst recession since the 1930s, so although a bank going bust would send a welcome message to the City that it is not immune from the socially divisive and unnecessary pain about to be afflicted on the public sector I doubt if it would do much good. A better way to rein in the banks and the excesses of the private sector in general would be stiffer regulation which so far has been embraced by the likes of France and Germany but resisted by the US and Britain. The lessons of the recession have yet to be learnt it would seem.

Oh I don't know, I think Gordy and his bunch of incompetents have learned a few things. No one could fail to notice that most of his former colleagues have distanced themselves from him as far as they possibly can whilst Harriet Harman has reacted most positively by putting a big red pen through his bribery list.

Pity they didn't react sooner before he did so much economic damage to the country.

[BuckyRover]

Harley Harman is supporting the strikes. You couldn't make it up!

[JAL]

Harley Harman is supporting the strikes. You couldn't make it up!

If she is, which I very much doubt, then thats the clearest indication that shes leading the unions into a trap that will leave them losing face with its members and the hearts and minds of the general public as a whole.

[BuckyRover]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311653/Labour-right-Harriet-Harman-tells-strike-hungry-union-chiefs.html

Labour. Why did we do it to ourselves?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Not surprised Harperson has come out with comments like this. She's not exactly going to tell the unions (who bankroll Labour) that they should work with the government. What was it Cameron said this week at PMQ's:

1215 Mr Cameron's last words to Ms Harman prompt laughter from across the House as he ribs her about the Labour leadership election, calculating that Ms Harman, as an MP, trade unionist, Labour Party member and a member of the Fabian Society will have four votes. Democracy's a wonderful thing, he concludes with a grin.

Let them strike and see where it gets them. Polls show the majority still back the decision for the need to make cuts and and i highly doubt the general public will back the unions in this instance.

[JAL]

Not surprised Harperson has come out with comments like this. She's not exactly going to tell the unions (who basically bankroll Labour) that they should work with the government. What was it Cameron said this week at PMQ's:

1215 Mr Cameron's last words to Ms Harman prompt laughter from across the House as he ribs her about the Labour leadership election, calculating that Ms Harman, as an MP, trade unionist, Labour Party member and a member of the Fabian Society will have four votes. Democracy's a wonderful thing, he concludes with a grin.

Let them strike and see where it gets them. Polls show the majority still back the decision for the need to make cuts and and i highly doubt the general public will back the unions in this instance.

Couldnt help but feel there was lot of flirting and sexual tension between Cameron and Harman at questions time with both absolutely reveling and loving every moment of it.

[jim mk2]

The public will back the strikes when it sees the devastation that is about to be wreaked on the British economy by the weasel Osborne, the country goes back into recession and unemployment soars. The sad truth is that none of these savage reductions in public spending are necessary because Labour had already put in place cuts that would have halved the deficit in 4 years even with the current tepid ecoonmic growth. The Tory cuts are vindictive, ideological and socially divisive. It's about time organised labour made a comeback and this is the ideal opportunity.

Couldnt help but feel there was lot of flirting and sexual tension between Cameron and Harman at questions time with both absolutely reveling and loving every moment of it.

Harriet was winding up the unctuous Cameron over his ludicrous "hug a hoodie" comment a few years ago. No wonder she was smiling at her impending departure - trading banter with an intellectual lightweight such as the current PM must have been extremely dull.

[JAL]

[quote name='jim mk2' date='16 September 2010 - 22:35 PM' timestamp='1284672929' post='956219

Harriet was winding up the unctuous Cameron over his ludicrous "hug a hoodie" comment a few years ago. No wonder she was smiling at her impending departure - trading banter with an intellectual lightweight such as the current PM must have been extremely dull.

She loved every minute of it Jim, sure, but so did Cameron.

Leave them two in a room alone, putting the world to rights, and I bet it would end up like a Bond movie

[BuckyRover]

The public will back the strikes when it sees the devastation that is about to be wreaked on the British economy by the weasel Osborne, the country goes back into recession and unemployment soars. The sad truth is that none of these savage reductions in public spending are necessary because Labour had already put in place cuts that would have halved the deficit in 4 years even with the current tepid ecoonmic growth. The Tory cuts are vindictive, ideological and socially divisive. It's about time organised labour made a comeback and this is the ideal opportunity.

Harriet was winding up the unctuous Cameron over his ludicrous "hug a hoodie" comment a few years ago. No wonder she was smiling at her impending departure - trading banter with an intellectual lightweight such as the current PM must have been extremely dull.

You are going to be gutted when we avoid a double dip recession.

[JAL]

You are going to be gutted when we avoid a double dip recession.

Bucky what makes you think we will avoid a double dip recession.

[BuckyRover]

That's quite a deep question.

Just a hunch. No real basis for my prediction, like an economist basically.

[jim mk2]

You are going to be gutted when we avoid a double dip recession.

Not at all. I hope the economy somehow avoids another recession and people hang on to their jobs. That however seems unlikely given the scale of the forthcoming Tory attack on the public sector. I repeat what I said earlier - that none of these cuts are necessary and the black hole hole on the public finances caused by the incompetance of the private sector can be repaired through growth rather than cuts - as the US continues to advocate much to its exasperation. The public finances can also be improved by raising taxes significantly - it is the wealthy after all who caused this mess in the first place.

[Guest bluerovers]

Not at all. I hope the economy somehow avoids another recession and people hang on to their jobs. That however seems unlikely given the scale of the forthcoming Tory attack on the public sector. I repeat what I said earlier - that none of these cuts are necessary and the black hole hole on the public finances caused by the incompetance of the private sector can be repaired through growth rather than cuts - as the US continues to advocate much to its exasperation. The public finances can also be improved by raising taxes significantly - it is the wealthy after all who caused this mess in the first place.

You're like a sad old gambler who thinks they next pound the put in the fruit machine will win them the jackpot.

[BuckyRover]

Don't we already pay more in debt interest each year than we spend on either education or defence?

Do your plans make that worse or better?

Americn finances are on a precipice. Unfortunately any economic shocks there would affect us badly. I wouldn't use them as an example. (Unless you were discussing Labour's version of prudence).

[koi]

Labour have never explained how they would make the cuts. They have been pressed time and time again and have never come up with an answer. If they really had a deficit reduction plan they would be spelling it out - they haven't and they can't. After reading TB's book it's clear that this is a Labour trait; tell the public what they want to hear and purposely leave out the details - Tony Blair's own words.

[jim mk2]

Labour have never explained how they would make the cuts. They have been pressed time and time again and have never come up with an answer.

Neither did the Tories. Both parties were pressed constantly by the media on the details of their proposed cuts before the election but both refused to elaborate. Labour said their plan would halve the deficit in 4 years but the Tories did not even go that far - and little wonder. If the public had known that the Tories were secretly planning to slash public spending and create unemployment there is no doubt that the outcome of the election would have been very different. It is clear now that the Tories have been planning for years their ideological experiment to reduce the size of the state.

I also read today that the "tax gap" - the difference between the amount of tax that is due and the amount that is actually paid - grew in the past year from £38bn to £42bn but as part of its process of reducing the size of Whitehall the government is proposing to cut the number of tax inspectors ! The stupidity and short-sightedness of the Tories defies belief but twas ever thus.

[thenodrog]

The public will back the strikes when it sees the devastation that is about to be wreaked on the British economy by the weasel Osborne, the country goes back into recession and unemployment soars. The sad truth is that none of these savage reductions in public spending are necessary because Labour had already put in place cuts that would have halved the deficit in 4 years even with the current tepid ecoonmic growth. The Tory cuts are vindictive, ideological and socially divisive. It's about time organised labour made a comeback and this is the ideal opportunity.

Good grief. John Prescott openly states that the Labour Party themselves are on the verge of bankruptcy so who the hell with any sense (other than a few public sector workers frightened of losing their cushy numbers) are going to vote for them ffs? If they cannot run their own financial affairs then how on earth do they think they are fit and proper to be placed in charge of the entire country's economy?

btw...... Am I the only person to question why we employed these people in the first place if we can do without them now?http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburn/8387128.Blackburn_with_Darwen_bosses_face_cull/