[Archived] Election

[RibbleValleyRover]

Lots of rumours going around that Ed Milliband is now in the lead to become Labour leader. I would be happy to see him get it (as will Cameron) as a lurch to the left will put them out of power for even longer.

[den]

Lots of rumours going around that Ed Milliband is now in the lead to become Labour leader. I would be happy to see him get it (as will Cameron) as a lurch to the left will put them out of power for even longer.

Yes, I agree it would make it difficult. What this country needs, nay - any country needs is third way, progressive politics. Unfortunately, that rules out the current lot.

[jim mk2]

Nothing progressive about this government or its policies. A tiny light on the detail of the forthcoming cuts was shed on ITV 10pm news last night with one council proposing to lift the hourly rate for carers about to be lifted from £8 per hour to £13, another council flogging off its libraries and another hiving off all of its functions to the private sector. The next few years will be a rerun of the 1980s with the Tories ripping up the fabric of the country with the weakest and poorest hit hardest as always. Either of the Milibands will be preferable to the vindictive and nasty crew currently occupying No 10.

[rebelmswar]

Nothing progressive about this government or its policies.

Not even getting progressively worse?

A tiny light on the detail of the forthcoming cuts was shed on ITV 10pm news last night with one council proposing to lift the hourly rate for carers about to be lifted from £8 per hour to £13, another council flogging off its libraries and another hiving off all of its functions to the private sector. The next few years will be a rerun of the 1980s with the Tories ripping up the fabric of the country with the weakest and poorest hit hardest as always. Either of the Milibands will be preferable to the vindictive and nasty crew currently occupying No 10. one next season.

I will never understand something that is in this above paragraph. That is – If there was no private sector, there would be no public sector, as the public sector has no ability whatsoever of paying for itself. If the private sector has been damaged, through whatever cause – be it bad government previous, or simple greed, why does it not make sense that the public sector should have to be reduced somewhat?

Governments cannot make money come out of nowhere and the public sector swallows up so much of the incoming money as it is. It makes no sense to pay out vast sums of money into something that will not aid resolving the problem. Tariffs on non UK products should be introduced and money spent on resuscitating industry and manufacturing in the country itself. There is nothing to be gained from staying where we are buried in debt and debilitating spending, the country has to work our way out of this hole.

[philipl]

A question for philipl, I think. I'm not a money expert but here's one probable explanation...

Wage money is always recycled back into the economy. The wage is taxed and returned to the government. When the remaining money is spent on petrol, food, or anything, it's taxed again and back in government hands. You could argue that the government recoups around 30-40% of the wage paid out and the remainder is floating around in the economy - waiting to be spent (and taxed) again.

Not looked at this thread for a while- yes you are describing the multiplier effect which certainly exists and is a powerful stimulus.

What we are looking at here is the collision of several powerful forces:

1. I am pretty certain that given the weakness in the global economy, now is not a great time to be cutting, because.

- the right in the USA are hellbent on destroying the USA as an economic super power whether they mean to (yes there are many who believe that bankrupting all American Government is how they will achieve their dream of a small state) or not.

- Germany and China are acting as massively depressive forces on the European and global economies by not understanding their massive surpluses are actually draining effective demand away.

2. However, the Government deficit in the UK is drawing enormous resources into interest payments which are not going into the real economy except as massive bonuses to bond dealers in the finance sector.

3. Politically, the coalition has to cut now or never whilst they can point to the Labour Party's election commitment to halving the deficit itself (thereby the Labur Party "owns" responsibility for the deficit and every cut the coalition makes can be said to be something the Labour Party would have done themselves as they were non-specific about where their cuts were going- just that they knew the money had run out).

4. There is no doubt there has been enormous over statement about the size of cuts (40%) which has bought the Government some cheaper interest rates bacause the money markets think they are serious. That isn't to say that the cuts next month are not going to be horrible.

My overall view is the Government is going to balance three factors:

- the cuts will be deep enough to make a significant difference (and will ruin many people's lives) but not as bad as being trumpeted;

- some massive budget items will be delayed, effectively cutting them: pushing Trident renewal to after 2015 and delaying completing the new aircraft carriers will move something like £30bn out of this Parliament's spending plans. Not implementing The Labour Government's surveillance state will save billions as well.

- then the shortfall in cuts needed to achieve the real deficit target will be made up by a combination of banking taxes and making an absolute killing when the nationalised banks get sold off towards the end of this Parliament.

The huge fear I have is that Britain could follow Ireland's experience which has cut itself into the most enormous economic hole. However, Ireland has an Iceland-style banking crisis with the Government on the hook after guaranteeing all deposits which the UK does not have.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Lots of rumours going around that Ed Milliband is now in the lead to become Labour leader. I would be happy to see him get it (as will Cameron) as a lurch to the left will put them out of power for even longer.

Ed Milliband a "lurch to the left" ! Ha Ha Ha Ha. Show's just how much we've actually lurched to the right.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Ed Milliband the new Labour Party Leader.

It was the unions wot won it!

[RibbleValleyRover]

Breakdown of the voting percentages:

MPs 53-47 to David

Members 54-46 to David

Unions 60-40 to Ed

[jim mk2]

Congratulations to Ed Miliband on his election as Labour leader.

Now the party can switch its focus to attacking this appalling government and its vindictive programme of public service cuts.

All this and a Rovers win, a very good day indeed.

Ed Miliband, Britain's next prime minister.

[MarkBRFC71]

Lots of rumours going around that Ed Milliband is now in the lead to become Labour leader. I would be happy to see him get it (as will Cameron) as a lurch to the left will put them out of power for even longer.

Think they elected the wrong Milliband, but to be honest they've as much chance of being elected next time as Rovers have of winning the Prem. People won't forget the Bliar/Gordy debacle, and all of the proposed new leaders have about as much charisma as Cameron's little toe. Definitely in the country's best interests that they remain on the sidelines for as long as possible.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Ed Miliband, Britain's next prime minister.

As a Conservative voter I am extremely happy with today’s result. Red Ed (as he is been labelled) is step back to pre-clause four Labour. A leftist ideology that is outdated, entrenched and reliant on the despised unions.

David Milliand was head and shoulders above the rest of the candidates, in terms of ideology, experience, persona and gravitas. The public outside of a small deluded group; realise that deep cuts need to be made and do not buy the unions- do nothing approach.

Ed comes across a little geeky, inexperienced and uncomfortable in the front of the media.

[philipl]

Ed is a much more convincing politician than David.

David dithered and dithered twice when he could have had the leadership- he didn't have the steel either to take the moment nor the desire to make Labour realistic contenders at the Election. It was obvious Labour was unelectable under Brown. David was also a pretty anodyne Foreign Minister.

Ed is certainly an intellect. Will be interesting to see the path he now takes Labour on.

[MarkBRFC71]

Ed Miliband, Britain's next prime minister.

And you've got the brass neck to call my posts idiotic. :lol:

You poor, deluded old fool.

[MarkBRFC71]

You have just insinuated that Cameron has charisma.

Relative to Ed Miliband, he's got the charisma of JFK.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

As a Conservative voter I am extremely happy with today’s result. Red Ed (as he is been labelled) is step back to pre-clause four Labour. A leftist ideology that is outdated, entrenched and reliant on the despised unions.

David Milliand was head and shoulders above the rest of the candidates, in terms of ideology, experience, persona and gravitas. The public outside of a small deluded group; realise that deep cuts need to be made and do not buy the unions- do nothing approach.

Ed comes across a little geeky, inexperienced and uncomfortable in the front of the media.

" Red Ed " ? You must be joking. He's only slightly to the left of Ken Clark.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

" Red Ed " ? You must be joking. He's only slightly to the left of Ken Clark.

Hmmm lets quantify that statement

Son of a Marxist- Check

The Unions choice of candidate- Check

Union funded campaign- Check

Wants to abolish New Labour- Check

Wants to return to Labours ideological principles- Check

Wants to raise taxes- Check

Wants to vastly increase the minimum wage during a period when the UK has a 150 billion deficit- Check

Is pedalling the unions myth that vast cuts dont need to be made to alleviate the UK out of its huge economic problems- Check

[MarkBRFC71]

Hmmm let’s quantify that statement

Son of a Marxist- Check

The Unions choice of candidate- Check

Union funded campaign- Check

Wants to abolish New Labour- Check

Wants to return to Labour’s ideological principles- Check

Wants to raise taxes- Check

Wants to vastly increase the minimum wage during a period when the UK has a 150 billion deficit- Check

Is pedalling the union’s myth that vast cuts don’t need to be made to alleviate the UK out of its huge economic problems- Check

You missed one:

Unelectable - check.

[Paul]

Hmmm let's quantify that statement

Son of a Marxist- Check

The Unions choice of candidate- Check

Union funded campaign- Check

Wants to abolish New Labour- Check

Wants to return to Labour's ideological principles- Check

Wants to raise taxes- Check

Wants to vastly increase the minimum wage during a period when the UK has a 150 billion deficit- Check

Is pedalling the union's myth that vast cuts don't need to be made to alleviate the UK out of its huge economic problems- Check

I always enjoy posts like this. It is perfectly possible to create similar lists about Cameron, Osborne et al, though clearly with a different slant, yet these lists always come from the right. Hmmm. It's quite scary on several levels.

Personally I'm surprised by the result and thought it was certain to be David who won. This could be a mistake for the Labour party, we shall just have to wait and see.

[philipl]

Matthew Ancona on Labour's gift to Cameron.

Of course, it is not unknown for newly elected leaders to make those who elected them a prisoner and head off in an entirely different direction.

[Yorick]

Nothing progressive about this government or its policies. A tiny light on the detail of the forthcoming cuts was shed on ITV 10pm news last night with one council proposing to lift the hourly rate for carers about to be lifted from £8 per hour to £13, another council flogging off its libraries and another hiving off all of its functions to the private sector. The next few years will be a rerun of the 1980s with the Tories ripping up the fabric of the country with the weakest and poorest hit hardest as always. Either of the Milibands will be preferable to the vindictive and nasty crew currently occupying No 10.

I can't see much to criticise there to be honest. Do we really need libraries now that we have the internet? Also hiving off work to the private sector still means employing people, albeit the more efficient ones.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

People can no longer complain that Labour do not represent the worker any more - if Ed sticks to the policies he's proposing.

The difficulty is that Ed's policies doesn’t represent the views of the majority of Britain. His return to true Labour principles; is wholly outdated- who are they going to appeal to? miners? Steelworkers? The manufacturing sector? Unfortunately Ed you are 25 years to late

Most of the working classes; either think they are middle-class or aspire to get there. Imposing increased taxes on the middle-classes will ultimately hurt Labour

[jim mk2]

The difficulty is that Ed's policies doesn't represent the views of the majority of Britain. His return to true Labour principles; is wholly outdated- who are they going to appeal to? miners? Steelworkers? The manufacturing sector? Unfortunately Ed you are 25 years to late

Most of the working classes; either think they are middle-class or aspire to get there. Imposing increased taxes on the middle-classes will ultimately hurt Labour

Your post is based entirely on pre-(mis)conceptions and old battles and ideologies.

If you listen to Ed's speeches and statements, there is nothing in his policies that are outside of the mainstream. The living wage, jobs for young people, economic growth - none of these are anything but pragmatic, centre-ground politics.

Tory supporters are worried because they realise Ed's election will result in millions of voters returning to the party who felt disaffected by New Labour and voted for the Lib Dems only to see them jump into bed with the Tories - the outcome they least wanted.

The "Red Ed" right-wing rhetoric will fade as people begin to see a charismatic leader who can inspire and will attack this appalling coalition - and win power again for Labour.

[modes98]

Think they elected the wrong Milliband

The Unions have the man they wanted, forget who the MPs and Members quite clearly knew was the right man to lead the party. Ed has little in terms of charisma and unfortunately doesn't even seem to have the same level of knowledge as David.

A poor day for the party but one I saw coming once I knew the unions backed Ed. Next time they may as well just ask the Unions who they want rather than send out ballot papers to all us members who pay to belong to the party.

[jim mk2]

The Unions have the man they wanted, forget who the MPs and Members quite clearly knew was the right man to lead the party. Ed has little in terms of charisma and unfortunately doesn't even seem to have the same level of knowledge as David.

A poor day for the party but one I saw coming once I knew the unions backed Ed. Next time they may as well just ask the Unions who they want rather than send out ballot papers to all us members who pay to belong to the party.

Ed won 28,000 more votes than David. Ed's mandate is clear and totally democratic.

[Paul]

I can't see much to criticise there to be honest. Do we really need libraries now that we have the internet? Also hiving off work to the private sector still means employing people, albeit the more efficient ones.

I think the question can only come from someone who doesn't use a public library. Chorley library is a tremendous resource, for one thing providing computers for people to access the internet, presumably these are people who cannot afford the luxury of a machine at home. Our family visits every two or three weeks to borrow books, CDs, DVDs, even games for a fraction of their true value. Libraries must never be closed or hived off to the "more efficient" private sector.