[Archived] Election

[colin]

[/sarcasm mode on] I think we should close all the libraries & burn all the books.

That'll bring us all into the 21st century [/sarcasm mode off]

[rebelmswar]

[/sarcasm mode on] I think we should close all the libraries & burn all the books.

That'll bring us all into the 21st century [/sarcasm mode off]

Quite right, if its good enough for the Romans its good enough for us.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've been involved in politics for the last 40 years and in all that time the Tories have been itching to take an axe to the welfare state. They can't believe their luck that this crisis has seemingly given them the opportunitity to take us back decades. I've got a feeling that the old saying- " Beware of getting what you wish for " is going to ring true in this case.

[jim mk2]

http://money-news.da...y_under_way_imf

Never let the truth get in the way of a good ol` rant eh Jim?

There are other way of reducing deficits - such as growing the economy to increase tax receipts, clamping down on tax avoidance by large corporations and rich individuals, imposing windfall taxes on the banks that were rescued by the taxpayer, and increasing taxes on the super wealthy. The Tories however have chosen to reduce the deficit by attacking the poorest, the weakest and the most vulnerable in society while leaving the rich relatively unscathed. It's why they are known as the Nasty party - the mystery is why ordinary folk such as yourself vote for them.

[Guest bluerovers]

You owe me money for a new office chair, I just pished myself laughing.

You seem have a problem with the concept of being able to extract and store information (the definition of learning) from Wikipedia...how odd.

Oh and before you bang on about how inaccurate it all is, studies have shown that is general it is no less accurate than a printed encyclopedia you might find in a library.

Furthermore, you do realize the most popular book genre right now is celebrity hard backs don't you? That's what they're in these libraries borrowing not the complete works of Shakespeare or the Encyclopedia Britannica so the only thing that's pish is the notion that libraries are some institutions of learning for the poor. Unless you think having the knowledge of Cheryl Cole's upbringing and how she felt when Ashley cheated on her counts as intellect..

[Guest bluerovers]

There are other way of reducing deficits - such as growing the economy to increase tax receipts

Ahh yes and tomorrow I'm just going to 'grow' my bank account as it's a little low at the moment.

Oh and the Public Sector is not the economy, a thing Labour seem to keep getting confused about.

, clamping down on tax avoidance by large corporations and rich individuals, imposing windfall taxes on the banks that were rescued by the taxpayer, and increasing taxes on the super wealthy.

All things the Labour party could have but didn't do in their 13 years in power. Givn your next bit, that must make them 'the nasty party' too.

The Tories however have chosen to reduce the deficit by attacking the poorest, the weakest and the most vulnerable in society while leaving the rich relatively unscathed. It's why they are known as the Nasty party - the mystery is why ordinary folk such as yourself vote for them.

Complete typical Labour rhetoric based on stone aged stereotypes. You also seem to have forgotten we have a coalition government, not a conservative one.

[Guest bluerovers]

:lol:

Oh I forgot, the traditional tribalism and stereotypes don't work as well on a coalition does it, much better to pretend it that nasty Tory party from the 80s back eh?

[rebelmswar]

You seem have a problem with the concept of being able to extract and store information (the definition of learning) from Wikipedia...how odd.

Oh and before you bang on about how inaccurate it all is, studies have shown that is general it is no less accurate than a printed encyclopedia you might find in a library.

Furthermore, you do realize the most popular book genre right now is celebrity hard backs don't you? That's what they're in these libraries borrowing not the complete works of Shakespeare or the Encyclopedia Britannica so the only thing that's pish is the notion that libraries are some institutions of learning for the poor. Unless you think having the knowledge of Cheryl Cole's upbringing and how she felt when Ashley cheated on her counts as intellect..

I do not need you to define words for me thank you, I have been directed to the worlds best source of learning for that, wiki.

I don't give a damn about how it measures up to Britannica. There are very good reasons that Wiki is not permitted to be a source in most colleges and ALL Ivy League schools.

Furthermore, do you realize that your remark about celebrity hard backs just goes to prove that we have a borderline drooling with inebriated stupidity slanted society that should use a library and turn off the ridiculous trash that its injected into their heads. The sheer volume of knowledge that you spew in your unending, almost viral, prolix can only come from Wiki. I do not see what Wiki has to do with libraries being closed nor what Cheryl Cole or Ashley has to do with the price of a half price paperback, best used ask a doorstop.

P.S. The ad hominem card has been played too many times today.

[jim mk2]

Ahh yes and tomorrow I'm just going to 'grow' my bank account as it's a little low at the moment. Oh and the Public Sector is not the economy, a thing Labour seem to keep getting confused about.

The US economy is growth led proving that cutbacks are not necessary to bring about economic recovery. The public sector is as an important a part of the economy as the private sector. These simple concepts seem beyond you.

All things the Labour party could have but didn't do in their 13 years in power. Givn your next bit, that must make them 'the nasty party' too.

Labour raised the top tax to 50 per cent and clamped down on the non-doms. The trouble with Gordon and Alastair is that they were too nice. They should have taxed the super rich much harder.

Complete typical Labour rhetoric based on stone aged stereotypes. You also seem to have forgotten we have a coalition government, not a conservative one.

Vulnerable people about to suffer from stereotypical Tory cuts inspired by stereotypical Tory dogma. This coalition is led by Tory rottweilers with Lib Dems acting as their tame lapdogs. There is nothing liberal about this "government", it has a right-wing Tory agenda.

[Guest bluerovers]

I do not need you to define words for me thank you, I have been directed to the worlds best source of learning for that, wiki.

But you seem to have an issue with information being read on screen and then remembered by the person reading it. This concept made you pish yourself remember?

I don't give a damn about how it measures up to Britannica. There are very good reasons that Wiki is not permitted to be a source in most colleges and ALL Ivy League schools.

And I don't give a damn about Ivy, Holly, Mistletoe or whatever your league accept as that isn't the argument. All I stated was that if someone read Wikipedia everyday, their general level of knowledge (and therefore intelligence) would raise. Where did I state that Wikipedia was an accepted source for the athletic conference comprising eight private institutions of higher education in the Northeastern United States?...and yes that definition did come from Wiki, suppose it's wrong then?

Furthermore, do you realize that your remark about celebrity hard backs just goes to prove that we have a borderline drooling with inebriated stupidity slanted society that should use a library and turn off the ridiculous trash that its injected into their heads.

Celebrity hard backs are books (the clue is in the 'hard back' bit), books are found in libraries. Going to libraries will only expose you to these "books". And what is this evil force that is injecting trash into their heads? The internet?

The sheer volume of knowledge that you spew in your unending, almost viral, prolix can only come from Wiki. I do not see what Wiki has to do with libraries being closed nor what Cheryl Cole or Ashley has to do with the price of a half price paperback, best used ask a doorstop.

You could always re-read the trail of the conversation and get back up to speed. I can remember how we got to this point, can't you?

[jim mk2]

All I stated was that if someone read Wikipedia everyday, their general level of knowledge (and therefore intelligence) would raise.

And some fell on stony ground.

[rebelmswar]

But you seem to have an issue with information being read on screen and then remembered by the person reading it. This concept made you pish yourself remember?

Nope, you comparing wiki to a library did.

And I don't give a damn about Ivy, Holly, Mistletoe or whatever your league accept as that isn't the argument. All I stated was that if someone read Wikipedia everyday, their general level of knowledge (and therefore intelligence) would raise. Where did I state that Wikipedia was an accepted source for the athletic conference comprising eight private institutions of higher education in the Northeastern United States?...and yes that definition did come from Wiki, suppose it's wrong then?

Nope you and wiki are right. You got me.

Celebrity hard backs are books (the clue is in the 'hard back' bit), books are found in libraries. Going to libraries will only expose you to these "books". And what is this evil force that is injecting trash into their heads? The internet?

Really? Hardbacks are books? I thought they were the older version of some type of invertebrate. Do all books come in this form? Libraries are full of celebrity hardbacks?

The evil force is.... television dont say it loud three times.

Libraries are needed in society, end of. Wiki can not and will never compare.

You could always re-read the trail of the conversation and get back up to speed. I can remember how we got to this point, can't you?

Oh dear, you hurt me with implying that I am an idiot.

[Yorick]

Our local library is small and not particularly well stocked and I doubt it would be of use to students but it is an important educational and recreational resource that is well used by children (encouraged by their enlightened mothers) and older people. It also has a computer section where people can use the internet. I have no idea if it makes or loses money but that is not the point. To close such a useful facility would be a regressive step and a terrible blow to the community that in the past 40 years had had to suffer the closure of its railway station, reduction of bus services, local factories and employers and pubs and shops. With each succesive cut a community and a nation slowly dies. This is Tory Britain.

Are you sure? From 2008

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-513703/2008-Labours-year-reading--library-closing-week.html

"London was the only area in the country not to see more libraries close than open. The North West lost more, with one library closing in the region every three weeks."

It appears from that report that as far as library facilities are concerned New Labour had abandoned the North West in favour of the South East way back then.

[Paul]

Broadband for all is presumably the one policy we can all agree on, even if it is both a Labour and Conservative pledge. I'm not holding my breath. Hold off on the bonfires.

[Rover Down Under]

Your post is based entirely on pre-(mis)conceptions and old battles and ideologies.

Pot, kettle Jim.

[Guest bluerovers]

And some fell on stony ground.

So you're claiming that at least 51% of what's on Wikipedia is wrong then, because that is the only way you could read it and get less intelligent.

Nope, you comparing wiki to a library did.

But that's not quite right is it? We were comparing the ability to gain information and intelligence for people who can't pay for expensive educations, you implied (IMO) that only libraries could give this service, I simply offered the counter example that someone could equally become more intelligent by using the internet and cited Wikipedia as an example of a site where they could do this.

Really? Hardbacks are books? I thought they were the older version of some type of invertebrate. Do all books come in this form? Libraries are full of celebrity hardbacks?

Libraries are obliged to stock what people want, celebrity hard backs are popular so they will stock them. General public libraries aren't allowed to have a pretentious book stocking policies I don't think.

Baiscally I think the chances of a poor person going into a library and getting A Brief History Of Time is less than them going in and getting My Bookie Wook.

The evil force is.... television dont say it loud three times.

Mary Whitehouse has returned

Libraries are needed in society, end of. Wiki can not and will never compare.

Never said they weren't and if you read my proposal you'd see I never called for the closure of all libraries...strawman.

Oh dear, you hurt me with implying that I am an idiot.

No, that's your own inference.

Talk about jumping to a conclusion. I'm simply pointing out that it's hardly a balanced government. And you cannot claim that it is. Without sounding cliche, the Lib Dems have lost their identity at the moment.

I never claimed it was a balance government, I simply said it was a coalition. What's up with this board and all the straw man fallacies?

As for the Lib Dems losing their identity, I hate tribalism and that is a tribal view

[Paul]

I'm not someone who is generally in favour of the coalition government's cuts but today's experience suggests there may well be room for some joined up thinking in the police force.

My car was vandalised at Blackpool on Saturday when paint stripper was thrown over it. I don't expect anyone to be caught and prosecuted but felt I should report the crime in case this is a regular occurence in the Bloomfield Road area. I also need a crime number for insurance purposes. The police want to visit me at home to take a Crime Report and as I work this has to be in the evening by appointment. As I feel this is a waste of police time and money I asked if I could do this at our local police station, which also requires an appointment. I appreciate the police are looking to provide me with a proper service, that I do not criticise, but to go to the expense of sending an officer to my house, by appointment, is going to cost a significant amount of money, as is an appointment at a police station.

Surely it would be far more efficient to do the whole thing online or over the phone? Clearly there are incidents which cannot be handled in this way but for what is actually a relatively minor incident cheaper methods should be found? Obviously this is a crime and must be treated seriously but surely these events could be categorised as to whether or not an expensive visit is necessary?

Changes of this sort would not impact on front line policing, in fact should free up officers' time, and would result in cost saving.

[rebelmswar]

No, what I meant ...

No, you said ...

No, what the word means ...

Well, Wiki says ...

Well, if I was a ham sandwich, I wouldnt want to eat ham would I?

Its like arguing with a deranged bar of soap.

Out of interest when did I infer that I was an idiot? I am not disagreeing with the label mind you.

[jim mk2]

As for the Lib Dems losing their identity, I hate tribalism and that is a tribal view

There is nothing more tribal than football so presumably you hate supporting Blackburn Rovers. In fact, your messageboard username is distinctly tribal, indicating your support for the club and its colours (or blue for Tory).

If you don't like tribalism you shouldn't be posting on here.

[Guest bluerovers]

It’s like arguing with a deranged bar of soap.

Out of interest when did I “infer” that I was an idiot? I am not disagreeing with the label mind you.

Ad-hominems, strawmen and now editing my quotes. Is there lame debating technique you won't employ?

And out of interest, it's here (you do have a short memory)...

Oh dear, you hurt me with implying that I am an idiot.

As you don't need words defined for you, I'll assume you know what 'infer' means.

[rebelmswar]

Ad-hominems, strawmen and now editing my quotes. Is there lame debating technique you won't employ?

Nope.

Use wiki to get the definition then. Because i did not infer anything.

[Guest bluerovers]

Really...

"Oh I forgot, the traditional tribalism and stereotypes don't work as well on a coalition does it, much better to pretend it that nasty Tory party from the 80s back eh?"

As for your tribalism comment, I think you need to calm down a bit. You're obviously getting worked up about something. If people disagree and argue in a civilised manner then stop attempting to fan flames.

Debate. Don't irate.

What are you on about, seriously?

Do I have to remind everyone of what happened in the last page all the time? It seems like it at the mo..oh well here we go.

*I told jim that his rhetoric was Tory based and that he was forgetting we had a coallition government.

*You then laughed at my use of the word coallition government.

*I flippantly remarked that of course admitting that FACT spoils the Tory vs Labour ideologies arguments (that to be honest I'm bored with on both sides) - this is what you quoted.

*You then replied saying the Lib Dems have no power (even though tehy have quite a few manifesto pledges recognised) and then accused me of describing it as a 'balanced government' which I never did and that was where the strawman was.

But even so, it's not a 100% Tory government either so my original point to jim stands. This cuts are Tory ideolgies stuff is boll*cks.

Secondly what part of my tribalism comment sounded angry in that I need to calm down? You claimed that the "Lib Dems are losing their identity" which to me implies you like tribal politics. Party A have one set of beliefs (which like religious principles never change over time or adjust to the situation), Party B have their own, Party C have their own and so on. I don't like this type of politics and I am happy we now have a more plural system at the moment.

[Guest bluerovers]

Nope.

Use wiki to get the definition then. Because i did not infer anything.

Are being a wum? Just in case you are genuinely struggling with this (which I don't think you are, just trying to rip the michael)...

You inferred from this sentence I wrote..

"You could always re-read the trail of the conversation and get back up to speed. I can remember how we got to this point, can't you?"

..that I was calling you and idiot, did you not?

[rebelmswar]

Stop using ad-hominems. Nasty practice.

I did not infer that I was an idiot. I assumed that is what you meant.

Not that I really did.

[Sandiway Blue]

There are other way of reducing deficits - such as growing the economy to increase tax receipts-HOW? THE PEOPLE THAT EARN MONEY CAN`T AFFORD TO JUST SPEND WILLY-NILLY,IF THE LAST GOVERNMENT HADN`T ACTED LIKE A KID IN A SWEET SHOP AND SPENT ALL THE POCKET MONEY,WE WOULDN`T BE IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!

clamping down on tax avoidance by large corporations and rich individuals-LIKE WHO? NAME AND SHAME PLEASE!

imposing windfall taxes on the banks that were rescued by the taxpayer-TOTALLY AGREE

and increasing taxes on the super wealthy-WHY SHOULD THEY PAY TAXES TWICE BECAUSE OF OTHER PEOPLE`S INCOMPETENCE?

The Tories however have chosen to reduce the deficit by attacking the poorest, the weakest and the most vulnerable in society-IF BY THAT YOU MEAN BENEFIT CLAIMERS WHO HAVE NOT BROUGHT A PENNY INTO THE ECONOMY,I THINK IT`S ABOUT TIME! (AND OBVIOUSLY I DON`T MEAN GENUINE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST JOBS OR THE GENUINELY DISABLED)

while leaving the rich relatively unscathed-THEY HAVE ALREADY HAD THEIR RATE OF INCOME TAX INCREASED TO HALF OF THEIR EARNINGS (YES MONEY THEY BROUGHT IN TO THE ECONOMY,NOT TAKEN OUT!)

It's why they are known as the Nasty party - the mystery is why ordinary folk such as yourself vote for them-BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO EARN,RATHER THAN CLAIM THEIR MONEY.AND IF WE HAD CARRIED ON UNDER LABOUR THE COUNTRY WOULD BE ON IT`S WAY TO BANKRUPTCY.WHAT PENSION POT WE HAVE LEFT,(AFTER LABOUR RAIDED THE MONEY THAT WASN`T THEIRS TO RAID!)WILL SOMEHOW NEED REBUILDING,THOUGH GOD KNOWS HOW!

The Tories might not be perfect,but at least you know where you stand with them unlike Labour who will say one thing to your face and do another behind your back.Labour has brought this country to it`s knees through it`s irresponsible spending policies,question is why would any WORKING person vote for them?