[Archived] Election

[thenodrog]

I can only assume that Nick Clegg keeps saying that all the parties should sit down together to formulate policies is because the Lib Dems haven't thought of any.

Thats fair enough....... they never ever need to.

[John]

Clegg trying to come across like Mr Honest and kept saying we have got to be straight - it was easy for him. He really can't wait to work together with the other parties, what rubbish!

Cameron did OK I thought, but could have been better.

Brown will always find it difficult to come across well.

[nowthen]

The power of these TV debates could be huge. I think Cameron could swing it for the Tories if he sharpens up with real figures to support his policies because Gordon Brown can't become charismatic overnight.

[jim mk2]

The debate said nothing new on policies and was often dull in the extreme but was an interesting perspective on the characters of the party leaders, confirming widely-held views that Brown is honest and well-meaning but lacking in personal warmth, Cameron unctious, lacking gravitas and untrustworthy as befitting a former PR man and Clegg sincere but largely out of his depth. Unfortunately British politics is following the American example in which style and presentation are perceived to be more important than the message.

[John]

Brown is always going to lose out in a TV debate.

He had some well rehersed lines and stats, however overall he came across quite negative - laid too much into the Conservatives. Provided little/no optimism to vote for Labour.

Brown kept smirking and shaking his head, which could be seen as petulent.

[LeChuck]

Clegg sincere but largely out of his depth.

Not a view shared by political analysts, or indeed people voting on the immediate opinion polls. Clegg coming out on the top is the general consensus tonight.

It seems to be the older generations (not all, I know) that can't rid themselves of pre-conceptions about the Lib Dems. Watch the news channels now, Clegg is the clear winner tonight. That's obviously not going to translate into a general election win, but it can damage the other two parties.

Edit: Seems about 75-80% of the audience there believe Clegg came out on top as well.

[tcj_jones]

I totally forgot about the leaders debate tonight

Anybody know if it's gonna be repeated?

[sleepyjack]

Clegg trying to come across like Mr Honest and kept saying we have got to be straight - it was easy for him. He really can't wait to work together with the other parties, what rubbish!

"I agree with Nick" was probably the most repeated phrase of the whole debate. Brown and Call Me Dave are lining up to kiss his arse.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Tonight's performance by Clegg will put far more scrutiny on their manifesto and policies. The Institute for Fiscal Studies were pretty critical about some parts of the Lib Dem manifesto, expect that to be looked at by the other party's more. Overall Clegg wasn't tested enough imo, most of the critical exchanges were between Cameron and Brown. I'm expecting Cameron to go after Clegg more in the next debate, Cameron won't be in the center of the stage next time either, i think that gave the opportunity for Clegg and Brown to gang up on Cameron at times.

I can't see this debate being a big game changer in terms of the polls, if one party is going to lose supporters to the Lib Dem's its very likely its going to be from Labour.

[American]

Not a view shared by political analysts, or indeed people voting on the immediate opinion polls. Clegg coming out on the top is the general consensus tonight.

It seems to be the older generations (not all, I know) that can't rid themselves of pre-conceptions about the Lib Dems. Watch the news channels now, Clegg is the clear winner tonight. That's obviously not going to translate into a general election win, but it can damage the other two parties.

Edit: Seems about 75-80% of the audience there believe Clegg came out on top as well.

Jim could have written that post before the debate and it would have read the same thing.

Missed it, but watching news night and it sounds like Clegg did very well, Cameron was ok (well prepared, for example standing back from the lectern) and Brown was Brown.

[Blue n White Rover]

Sky News had a poll ongoing throughout the whole debate. Final results revealed:

Clegg 37%

Brown 32%

Cameron 31%

[RibbleValleyRover]

Sky News had a poll ongoing throughout the whole debate. Final results revealed:

Clegg 37%

Brown 32%

Cameron 31%

It's fluctuating quite a bit.

Noticed this Sun/Yougov poll after the debate:

Sun/You Gov Poll; Who would make best PM?

Cameron 39

Brown 29

Clegg 26

[Blue n White Rover]

It's fluctuating quite a bit.

Noticed this Sun/Yougov poll after the debate:

Sun/You Gov Poll; Who would make best PM?

Cameron 39

Brown 29

Clegg 26

Read The Sun everyday, and you'll realise as to why Cameron is so far ahead.

I'm quite looking forward to the final debate the BBC will hold. The topic is "The Economy", and Cameron will have to answer several questions he "dodged" today.

[Billy Castell]

It's fluctuating quite a bit.

Noticed this Sun/Yougov poll after the debate:

Sun/You Gov Poll; Who would make best PM?

Cameron 39

Brown 29

Clegg 26

Don't know if it affects anything, but that is a Sun poll, and they'd back Cameron even if he was caught eating a child.

[only2garners]

It's fluctuating quite a bit.

Noticed this Sun/Yougov poll after the debate:

Sun/You Gov Poll; Who would make best PM?

Cameron 39

Brown 29

Clegg 26

You're looking at two different poll questions there so no surprise that they are different. The early polls on who won the debate seem to be very clearly showing Clegg won. The Sun/YouGov poll quoted on Newsnight gave the debate 51% to Clegg and I think 29% to Cameron and 19% to Brown. There was another poll with similar numbers but a bit narrower (I remembered 43/26/20 but that doesn't add up). However, that doesn't mean that if you thought Clegg won, that you will vote Lib Dem. The effect it might have will be to put a few points on the Lib Dem numbers, squeezing a bit from the other two and probably making a hung parliament more likely.

[RibbleValleyRover]

You're looking at two different poll questions there so no surprise that they are different. The early polls on who won the debate seem to be very clearly showing Clegg won. The Sun/YouGov poll quoted on Newsnight gave the debate 51% to Clegg and I think 29% to Cameron and 19% to Brown. There was another poll with similar numbers but a bit narrower (I remembered 43/26/20 but that doesn't add up). However, that doesn't mean that if you thought Clegg won, that you will vote Lib Dem. The effect it might have will be to put a few points on the Lib Dem numbers, squeezing a bit from the other two and probably making a hung parliament more likely.

Pretty much what i said in a previous post. I think if Lib Dems are going to surge a bit in the next few weeks its largely going to come from Labour's share. Like you said i don't think this debate will have a major immediate impact, but the Lib Dem's will get more focus and that could be good or bad.

[broadsword]

You're looking at two different poll questions there so no surprise that they are different. The early polls on who won the debate seem to be very clearly showing Clegg won. The Sun/YouGov poll quoted on Newsnight gave the debate 51% to Clegg and I think 29% to Cameron and 19% to Brown. There was another poll with similar numbers but a bit narrower (I remembered 43/26/20 but that doesn't add up).

That was the ITV one. 11% none of them.

[RibbleValleyRover]

We will have to wait and see what the official figures are but on 'This Week' Portillo and Neil were saying that just over 6 million tuned in. If true that's far lower than the predicted figures they were talking about today.

[philipl]

Just fallen off my chair (after getting in from a very fine dinner).

The Torygraph headline is Nick Clegg won. Times, Guardian and Independent all agree too. Perhaps I should watch the debate highlights...

[thenodrog]

....Unfortunately British politics is following the American example in which style and presentation are perceived to be more important than the message.

Blair based his entire career out of that.

[Blue n White Rover]

I totally forgot about the leaders debate tonight

Anybody know if it's gonna be repeated?

Full Debate

[pg]

Re : the city and its 'symbiotic relationship'

When I lived in Oxfordshire, rising house prices meant that the median wage in Oxforshire could no longer afford the median house. Families that had lived in a village for generations had to move...all because of London bankers buying up sections of the countryside for their weekend homes.

Villages had turned into a ghost towns during the week...no-one lived there Monday to Friday. Local shops suffered, schools suffered..all community services suffered.

If someone can put a positive spin on this I'm all ears.

Re : Lib Dems. I have no idea why thenodrog, who is so (rightfully) critical and cynical about the Labs/Cons... dismisses the Lib Dems so easily. IMO the only way to shake up the political impasse in England (and any Anglo-Saxon country for that matter) is to put the major political parties out of business for a while and get them thinking about more than how to attract more party funding from lobby and special interest groups.

Re : Political Compass - I am

Liberal Democrats: 58%

Conservative Party: 45%

Green Party: 42%

Labour Party: 36%

[Paul]

I forgot about this but did watch for 40 minutes from 9.00 before falling asleep. I thought it was disappointing, lightweight and lacking real substance. As a Labour supporter I felt Brown let himself down with his sneering, head shaking and condescending little smiles whenever Cameron said anything he disagreed with or felt was unrealistic. I found that behaviour quite unneccessary and unbecoming for our PM. Cameron lacked substance and in the time I watched seemed to do little but attempt to scaremonger with his emphasis on a "jobs tax." What is this? There is no "jobs tax," if you're going to talk about something Dave call it what it is, National Insurance not a jobs tax. The Conservative leader was trying to scare voters into believing Labour is looking to tax jobs which is far from the truth. We all pay NIC and the amount increases regularly.

I've vote Lib Dem on occassions and if I had to make a judgement based on last night Clegg would get my vote. Cameron and Brown bickered, tinkered at the edges and offered little. Cameron tried to emphasise "we're all in it together" (though Osborne seems to have dropped that little gem recently) and exampled household budgets on several occassions. In my household whenever we had substantial financial problems we made big savings, no holidays etc, and had strict budgets on monthly spend until we got back on track. I very much agree with Clegg's views on the economy and spending. Dropping Trident (£100bn saving) as against the £6bn Cameron and Brown argue over seems much more substantive to me.

Overall Brown and Cameron both came over very poorly, Brown disappointed me with his smugness, Cameron demonstrating why I could never vote for this insincere, untrustworthy PR man who will take us back to the '80s (and if you didn't live it, read about it). Clegg was good, I shall try and watch the next two and if Clegg keeps this up might vote for him.

[American]

if Clegg keeps this up might vote for him.

Didn't realise he was your local MP...

That's the problem with having the debates over here versus in the US. In the US we are actually voting for the candidate, not the local representative from his/her party, so it should matter more what he says and thinks.

[koi]

Paul, do you employ? If you do you're no doubt aware of the 12.8% that you as an employer pays for the privilege of employing someone. Labour are proposing to but this up by a significant amount. This is a cost to the employer not employee. It is a tax on jobs no doubt and as an employer it gives me no incentive to employ, quite the opposite. I've cut numbers, 18 went last year in order to save the business it's not nice at all and any more costs to my business will result in more cuts.

Clegg got his moment, I'm just hoping that it puts some focus on the ridiculous figures in their manifesto. If Cable dreamed those figures pray over and over again that he never gets close to the treasury.