[Archived] Election

[thenodrog]

And I'd be interested to hear your explanation as to why you are happy to adopt the behaviour of racist bore who goes through life abusing the weak and oppressed. Were you beaten up as a youth by one of your beloved "IndoPaks" ?

Or is it just small man syndrome ?

Either way, you're a pitiful specimen. Moving on from the low life.....

'Racist bore', 'small man syndrome', 'pitiful specimen', 'low life'. How rude Jim! Why are you resorting to hurling insults? I'm minded not to take up my cudgel by responding in similar fashion nor am I going to revert to the odious sneaks charter by hitting the REPORT button. Instead I shall simply remind you of the board guidelines....

4. No Personal Attacks. Whilst lively debate is encouraged, personal attacks are not tolerated. This will be enforced in all sections of the board.

btw you did say that "I won't be responding to you again." in a previous post. It might be better if you had stuck to your word.

[RovertheHill]

Leading the German recovery is steelmaker ThyssenKrupp, who manufacture high quality machine tools and automotive parts – everything British workers used to make before the Tories branded them 'the enemy within' and destroyed their industries, communities, and their pride.

Only half the story I'm afraid. A combination of poor management practice and idiotic unions contributed. Anybody who owned a British Leyland car in those days will tell you all about "high quality".

Anyone who moves abroad for tax reasons deserves critiicism - including Jack Walker.

Like Washington and the US subprime lending farago, Labour turned a blind eye to poor practices in the City but the Tories would not have done anything different and it was they of course who deregulated the City in the 1980s - Big Bang , remember that ? The cowboy capitalism that ensued over the past 25 years came to an end in 2008 and hopefully will not return. Osborne makes the right noises about clamping down on the City but I have my doubts. In the end the Tories will always bow to their paymasters in big business.

It's interesting that you use the period of 25 years - 13 of those were Labour and therefore ample time to tighten up regulation if that was required. Except Brown loosened it didn't he? Saying the Tories would not have done anything different undermines your argument. We will see if the Tories do or don't but frankly big business as paymasters is as bad to me as trade unions as paymasters. To me those two idiots that run Unite as as bad if not worse than the idiots who currently run the banks

[John]

Anyone who moves abroad for tax reasons deserves critiicism - including Jack Walker.

Why?

[den]

Only half the story I'm afraid. A combination of poor management practice and idiotic unions contributed. Anybody who owned a British Leyland car in those days will tell you all about "high quality".

British Leyland [talking about the bus and truck part here], went under due to lack of investment in the new technologies that would have brought the unit cost down considerably. The Tories stopped support that was previously coming from the Labour Government.

[RovertheHill]

British Leyland [talking about the bus and truck part here], went under due to lack of investment in the new technologies that would have brought the unit cost down considerably. The Tories stopped support that was previously coming from the Labour Government.

I was talking about the bit that made my dad's Austin and my Morris Marina that literally fell apart (and countless other models of car that were poorly designed, poorly made and not a patch on the opposition

[den]

I was talking about the bit that made my dad's Austin and my Morris Marina that literally fell apart (and countless other models of car that were poorly designed, poorly made and not a patch on the opposition

Yeah, I remember. Everyone started buying yellow Datsuns, that just as easily fell apart - simply because they came with a radio as standard.

[they didn't fall apart because of the radio, before anyone asks].

[jim mk2]

I was talking about the bit that made my dad's Austin and my Morris Marina that literally fell apart (and countless other models of car that were poorly designed, poorly made and not a patch on the opposition

All those things are true and as with the failure of any company, can be laid directly at the door of management who, encouraged by Tory governments, were more intent of breaking the trade unions than running the business. .

Compare and contrast with Germany where trade unions and managements work together in a common cause, managements do not award themselves grotesque pay packages and production line workers receive good living wages.

[BuckyRover]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1142866/Meet-Labours-City-cronies-The-roll-bankers-rewarded-Brown-Blair.html

Apologies for the source.

The 2005 Tory manifesto pledged to reduce spending and said we were already spending more than we earn and would cause us trouble in the future. So the bank crisis would probably still have happened, only we would have been in a better position to deal with it.

I didn't vote for the Tories in 2005. Maybe that was a mistake.

[JAL]

All those things are true and as with the failure of any company, can be laid directly at the door of management who, encouraged by Tory governments, were more intent of breaking the trade unions than running the business. .

Compare and contrast with Germany where trade unions and managements work together in a common cause, managements do not award themselves grotesque pay packages and production line workers receive good living wages.

Cant argue with that Jim, it just begs the question why do we really dislike one another on this tiny island of ours.

[jim mk2]

Cant argue with that Jim, it just begs the question why do we really dislike one another on this tiny island of ours.

Historical. The ruling classes like to keep the peasant workers in their place.

Which begs the question why a peasant worker votes Tory.

Unbelieveable.

[RovertheHill]

Cant argue with that Jim, it just begs the question why do we really dislike one another on this tiny island of ours.

On the contrary you can argue with it. You could argue that German success has nothing to do with trade union and management cooperation and more to do with a proportional representation system of government that means compromise and cooperation are built into the "system". And if you actually research it you will find out that before 2009 Jim is in fact plain wrong. German executives were up there with British executives in pay from large companies (across Europe), and paid more in medium companies. Ms Merkel's government introduced a cap in response to the banking crisis.

And plenty of countries like France and Italy don't have the same level of success and have "strong" unions

And I no longer buy this class nonsense. It just doesn't matter for the average person in this day and age

[jim mk2]

And plenty of countries like France and Italy don't have the same level of success and have "strong" unions

France and Italy both overtook Britain in the global economic league table in the 2008 - 9 worldwide recession showing with Germany (and the US) that strong unions are a force for good in economic success. The deal securing the future of Jaguar / Land Rover this week was hailed as a victory for management / trade union co-operation so there might be hope that Britain can follow the German model. I note that the right wing press here gave the unions very little credit for their part in the deal but that was only to be expected.

You're wrong about pay. German managers' pay in significantly less than their equivalents in the FT-SE 100 and German employees have higher wages and living standards than British workers. It is time organised labour in Britain made a comeback.

[Paul]

Serious question. Can anyone explain how Scotland is paying for all these freebies? If the money comes from UK taxation how does the government square this at a time of swingeing cuts?

[jim mk2]

Story tonight Scotland is axing 25 per cent of senior NHS managers over the next 4 years to pay for healthcare pledges.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Serious question. Can anyone explain how Scotland is paying for all these freebies? If the money comes from UK taxation how does the government square this at a time of swingeing cuts?

As currently under the Barnett formula the Scots receive over £1500 per head more in revenue than their English counterparts.

Re HE:

Quite a sizeable proportion of the university population in Scotland derive from south of the Border. These students have to pay full fees!

[LeChuck]

Quite a sizeable proportion of the university population in Scotland derive from south of the Border. These students have to pay full fees!

I thought it was still less than fees for non-Scottish universities though?

The fee raise is absolutely disgusting. This is the first time I feel utterly betrayed by the Liberal's involvement in this coalition.

The astronomical amount of money to be borrowed will be so daunting to students from less well-off families. The class divide is just going to get even bigger.

I hope Labour's opposition is genuine and not just there to differentiate themselves from the other parties. I don't plan on having children for quite a while yet, but I think I'd move to a different country if we had a situation where fees were £7,000+.

[thenodrog]

France and Italy both overtook Britain in the global economic league table in the 2008 - 9 worldwide recession showing with Germany (and the US) that strong unions are a force for good in economic success.

Well in most thinking people's books that would illustrate the effects of over a decade under a Labour Government. Especially those who are old enough to remember the disastrous influence of labour governments through the strike lead 60's and 70's.

btw Lest we forget.... For the benefit of our younger members the UK economy was infected then with what became known worldwide as 'The British Disease' http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/British%20disease#cd1 . You youngsters probably haven't heard about this nor suffered under it's stultifying effects and thats simply because of the Thatcher years. The nation owes her a lot.)

[SouthAussieRover]

You youngsters probably haven't heard about this nor suffered under it's stultifying effects and thats simply because of the Thatcher years. The nation owes her a lot.)

You youngsters out there should expect one hell of a party by half the population,aged over 40,in the not too distant future.

[thenodrog]

You youngsters out there should expect one hell of a party by half the population,aged over 40,in the not too distant future.

Poor taste and unecessary.

..... However I don't think any party will be all that excessive given the cuts in benefits, public sector jobs etc due to be rolled out shortly.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Don't get me going about Thatcher ! I've still got the empty bottle of Champagne I drank when she resigned. I've got another one waiting.

[philipl]

Philip Green is at the scummy end of the business spectrum.

Doesn't invalidate his report nto Government waste though.

[jim mk2]

Don't get me going about Thatcher ! I've still got the empty bottle of Champagne I drank when she resigned. I've got another one waiting.

There should be a national day of celebration when she finally pops her clogs.

Done more damage to this country than the combined forces and effects of Napoleon, the Kaiser, Adolf Hitler, the Luftwaffe and the US bill for the second world war (finally paid off by Gordon Brown in 2006) .

[Al]

As currently under the Barnett formula the Scots receive over £1500 per head more in revenue than their English counterparts.

Can anyone explain to me why this happens and where does the extra funding come from. Surely the scots do not produce more wealth per person than the rest of the population of Britain.

As a matter of interest, is said Barnett scottish?

[BuckyRover]

There should be a national day of celebration when she finally pops her clogs.

Done more damage to this country than the combined forces and effects of Napoleon, the Kaiser, Adolf Hitler, the Luftwaffe and the US bill for the second world war (finally paid off by Gordon Brown in 2006) .

Celebrating a death.

I love the left. So hypocritical.

LeChuck. I was originally against the fees increase but I

have changed my mind. It's only an off putting amount of money if you are poor at maths. It's not redeemable until you are earning 21k per annum. It's a small amount that comes out of your wage and the choice is do you want to earn a higher amount of money and lose a little bit from your wage or do you want to earn less money.

I benefitted from lower fees but I will be advising my sister who would be due to start in 2013 that she should still go for it. It's not ideal (ideally it would be free) but these are not ideal times.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Can anyone explain to me why this happens and where does the extra funding come from. Surely the scots do not produce more wealth per person than the rest of the population of Britain.

As a matter of interest, is said Barnett scottish?

Barnett is English I believe, an ex labour MP.

The formula is based on 1970’s population distributions and was amended in 2002. The discrepancy is due to the faster rate of population growth in England, driven by disproportionate net immigration rates

The Labour party lacked the political will to adjust the formula due to the amount of support it attracts in Scotland, whilst the Tories would fall into Salmon’s trap of appearing as anti- Scottish.

BTW. People in N.Ireland receive even more per head that the Scots.