[Archived] Election

[den]

Of course it did, the NHS spend has been vast and I am glad that health spending is being protected.

However, the waste from vast amounts of staff (non medical), to procurement contracts, to that shambolic IT system has been nothing short of scandalous. Just think of the billions frittered away from a service so vital.

No doubt there's massive waste - it's a massive employer.

I really doubt that anyone could realistically argue that the NHS was much other than a shambles when Labour took it back from the Tories in 1997. Hospital's Badly underfunded, buildings programme stalling and waiting lists running into years. There was never the will to invest in the NHS at that point. Even during the last election capmaign that the Tories lost, thier big idea for the NHS was to allow people to take their money out and use it for private treatment. They have, to be fair, ringfenced the NHS spending for this period, but probably in the knowledge that to do otherwise would lose tham many votes.

[berkshireblue]

Having lived through the 1980s when Tory cuts last decimated public services, there is no doubt that increased public spending leads to better services. Labour inherited in 1997 woeful public services not even worthy of a third world country and the money they spent over the past 13 years has gone some but not all the way to redressing the balance. in my opinion they should have spent much more. But this is the choice we make - private affluence and public squalor under Tories or a balance between the two under Labour. I know which I prefer. You reference to Bob Crow is just silly and something only to be expected from a Conservative voter.

It should be repeated that the ConDem government's strategy of slash and burn to public services is not necessary and is not inevitable. They employ a statistical sleight of hand to paint a picture of Labour's recklessness that belies hundreds of new schools and hospitals nationwide. They do not distinguish between debt and deficit. Debt needs to be put in a historical perspective and identifed how much is tied up in the package that rescued the banks and there needs to be an honest debate about why it was necessary for Labour to run the deficit to help the economy through the recession and how it can be run down in a measured manner.

By doing so it will be possible to show the government's folly in destroying people's jobs, homes and dreams in the name of economic discipline. And it will also then be possible to resist the inevitable phase two of the Tories' ideological assault, when they seek to fill the gaps in provision created by cuts to public services with contracts for big business.

Jim you say the government is;

destroying people's jobs, homes and dreams in the name of economic discipline.

Why should a government of whatever persuasion be responsible for people's dreams etc

That is again the crux of the problem with the society we have become, I ve never met you but I would think you are a mature individual who has lived through tougher times than someone on the dole having to consider cancelling their sky subscritpion which is the dilema of many lazy ''''ards today, or to smoke a cheaper cigarette brand

Where is the self responsibility? People have kids and think no worries the state will pay for them

We need people to take responsibility for their own actions and their own dreams

I drove to pembrokeshire lat week thru' Merthyr Tid which was subject to an IDS quote re getting on the bus to work

My dad used to walk 20 miles a day to work and yet we have a society who d rather sit on their arse than take a bus to cardiff

It is not the govt who destroys dreams and society it is irresponsible parents

I for my business struggle and cannot find hard loyal people who I pay and reward well

The sooner we rid this country of the curse and plague where everyone's problems are cuased by no-one but themselves the better

PS Go on say it, tell us there is waste in the public sector it wont hurt!

[tashor]

Does not compute.

Try again.

Little gordon's boy

He is very old

Though he was very small

He did what he was told

Jimmy Jimmy

Jimmy Jimmy - Oooh

Jimmy Jimmy

Poor little Jimmy wouldn't let go

He'd stay awake at night

Lying in his bed

No one ever listened

To a single word he said

Jimmy Jimmy ...

Silly boy

Silly boy

Silly boy

Such a silly boy

Jimmy Jimmy ...

When little Jimmy goes

He'll disappear one day

But no one'll see the ambulance

That'll take little Jim away

Jimmy Jimmy ....................................................

[thenodrog]

Oooops....

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/politics/s/1370673_gordon_brown_and_cherie_blair_back_woolas_axed_over_election_slurs

Anybody here know whether Labours senior statesman and our MP Jack Straw offered a few supporting words for his colleague Phil Woolas or not? I've not seen any.

[LeChuck]

You get paid what you are worth.

Watching the BBC2 documentary on the BP oil spill and this comment popped into my head.

Tony Hayward earned roughly £3,000,000 in 2009. The average UK wage that year was £28,000 (ish).

I don't doubt some people earn their big money, but quite clearly not everybody does.

[jim mk2]

Hands up who knows what Cameron's "Big Society" means ?

Cameron made great play of the Big Society during the election campaign, describing it as his ``great passion'' that would enhance ``people power''.

But even coalition ministers have no idea what it is according to Tory Tim Loughton who said the majority of people struggled to understand the concept.

Delivering a speech to volunteering organisation CSV, the children's minister said: ``The trouble is that most people don't know what the Big Society really means, least of all the unfortunate ministers who have to articulate it. What actually is the Big Society, let alone is it good or not? Exactly how big is it now or is it going to be? Is it in fact Ann Widdecombe?"

Shadow education secretary Andy Burnham said: ``Tim Loughton should at least get credit for saying what the rest of the country has been thinking.''

Moving on, following on from his Washington debacle and gaffe over the Second World War and upsetting India and Pakistan and France and Germany in other diplomatic faux pas, the hapless Cameron has again upset his hosts on his trip to China by wearing a lapel poppy.

In Britain, of course, this is a symbol of those who have died fighting for their country. In China the flower has a less welcome connotation with European imperialism because of the 19th century opium wars when Britain forced China to tolerate the drug trade.

Officials confirmed that China had requested the delegation not to wear poppies, but the UK delegation all sported poppies on Tuesday.

[thenodrog]

Hands up who knows what Cameron's "Big Society" means ?

Cameron made great play of the Big Society during the election campaign, describing it as his ``great passion'' that would enhance ``people power''.

But even coalition ministers have no idea what it is according to Tory Tim Loughton who said the majority of people struggled to understand the concept.

Delivering a speech to volunteering organisation CSV, the children's minister said: ``The trouble is that most people don't know what the Big Society really means, least of all the unfortunate ministers who have to articulate it. What actually is the Big Society, let alone is it good or not? Exactly how big is it now or is it going to be? Is it in fact Ann Widdecombe?"

Shadow education secretary Andy Burnham said: ``Tim Loughton should at least get credit for saying what the rest of the country has been thinking.''

Moving on, following on from his Washington debacle and gaffe over the Second World War and upsetting India and Pakistan and France and Germany in other diplomatic faux pas, the hapless Cameron has again upset his hosts on his trip to China by wearing a lapel poppy.

In Britain, of course, this is a symbol of those who have died fighting for their country. In China the flower has a less welcome connotation with European imperialism because of the 19th century opium wars when Britain forced China to tolerate the drug trade.

Officials confirmed that China had requested the delegation not to wear poppies, but the UK delegation all sported poppies on Tuesday.

Hear hear Jim. And whilst we are at it does anybody know what Tony Bliar's 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' meant?

Anyway Jimbo....Never mind all that. Much more importantly do you think Ed will marry Justine now?

.... and if he does why?

[jim mk2]

Hear hear Jim. And whilst we are at it does anybody know what Tony Bliar's 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' meant?

Good soundbite by the greatest British PM of this and the last century, and backed up by action too. Crime figures fell significantly under Labour.

http://www.independe...te-1951946.html

Interesting quotes pre-election from Chris Huhne: "The Liberal Democrats are the only party committed to putting 3,000 more police on the beat."

Don't know what's worse: the nasty party or the dishonest party. They deserve each other and hopefully will be out of office next year when they split over electoral reform.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Massive own goal for the NUS, students trashing Millbank which is near CCHQ.

[koi]

Massive own goal for the NUS, students trashing Millbank which is near CCHQ.

I doubt they're genuine protesters to be honest.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I doubt they're genuine protesters to be honest.

Probably not but the rally was organised by the NUS and this disgraceful behaviour will be associated with the event they created. IMO this will really hamper their argument when it comes to tuition fees.

[AndyNeil]

I doubt they're genuine protesters to be honest.

You doubt it - based on what? Have you seen the live pics.....

[koi]

You doubt it - based on what? Have you seen the live pics.....

No, I only grab five minutes here and there. I meant I doubt they are genuine NUS protesters, from what I hear on 5live they simply sound like idiots looking for trouble.

[den]

It's turning into a political nightmare for the LibDems.

Clegg struggled in PMQ's and many of the party aren't going to vote for the rise in fees. It just remains to be seen whether they are strong enough to actually vote against it, rather than abstain.

[DE.]

Something like this was going to happen eventually. People are becoming increasingly disillusioned and are rightly believing their voice doesn't actually make a difference. In such a situation, violence will be seen as the only solution to getting noticed. Hopefully this is just a one-off, rather than the beginning of an increasing wave of violence. Students in particular have been completely betrayed by a staggeringly high tuition fee rise and the Lib Dems in general, who have gone back on basically everything they ever promised students. I can't condone the violence that's happening, but nobody should be surprised.

[RibbleValleyRover]

People may have changed their opinion on the subject after seeing the march today, however some views also may have changed after what happened tonight. All the perceived ‘good work’ done during the day might have been completely wasted by the actions of a bunch of scumbag individuals.

I especially hope they find the @#/? who threw a fire extinguisher off the roof and just missed a group of police officers below. If that had hit then we would be talking about a death here. Whoever did that deserves a long prison sentence.

[adopted scouser]

Annoys me when Police officers, fully tooled up, are ordered to just stand there while property is ransacked.

Frightened to death after the last summit, and chavvy little @#/?s are left to run amok.

[JAL]

Annoys me when Police officers, fully tooled up, are ordered to just stand there while property is ransacked.

Frightened to death after the last summit, and chavvy little @#/?s are left to run amok.

Education.. education.. education.. has it or did it work for these kids ?

[thenodrog]

It's turning into a political nightmare for the LibDems.

Clegg struggled in PMQ's and many of the party aren't going to vote for the rise in fees. It just remains to be seen whether they are strong enough to actually vote against it, rather than abstain.

Maybe they'll apply a bit of thought before gobbing off in their manifesto come the next election. For almost a century the Liberals have said whatever they wanted pre elections knowing that whatever they said would count for nowt as they'd always be the third party. The party for the alternative / protest vote. Well this time their ill considered and ideallist policies have swung around big time to bite em on the arse.

The wishy washy tree huggers should have been more careful what they wished for.

[adopted scouser]

Education.. education.. education.. has it or did it work for these kids ?

It has to be said Jal, many witnesses report only a tiny minority did the damage, it was mainly a peaceful protest.

Why can't we send the troops in the deal with the minority then ? Chief Police Officers are cacking it after the guy got pushed over and collapsed at the last summit protest. Sad as it was, in the real world thousands on that day presented a real threat to public order so Kettling was employed.

And as for the screaming woman with the mobile phone who filmed a PC taking a swing at her, what do you expect love ? You're in the middle of a riot.

It's easy and dare I say convenient to study what should and shouldn't happen in situations like this, it's a bloody sight different when you're in the thick of it.

[LeChuck]

Massive own goal for the NUS, students trashing Millbank which is near CCHQ.

Trashing Millbank is nothing, the Conservatives deserve a hell of a lot more. What they're trying to do the higher education system is disgusting.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Trashing Millbank is nothing, the Conservatives deserve a hell of a lot more. What they're trying to do the higher education system is disgusting.

So you back the disgusting and disgraceful behaviour shown today?

Also why are you directing all this flack against the Conservatives, it wasn’t them that had a cast iron guarantee that tuition fees would not rise. Labour would have likely put them up anyway (they were afterall the ones who introduced this system in the first place) either that or a graduate tax which would have hit people just as hard.

You should be directing more anger and blame towards the previous government that left the public finances in such a dire state resulting in the need for there to be widespread cuts.

[LeChuck]

So you back the disgusting and disgraceful behaviour shown today?

Also why are you directing all this flack against the Conservatives, it wasn’t them that had a cast iron guarantee that tuition fees would not rise. Labour would have likely put them up anyway (they were afterall the ones who introduced this system in the first place) either that or a graduate tax which would have hit people just as hard.

You should be directing more anger and blame towards the previous government that left the public finances in such a dire state resulting in the need for there to be widespread cuts.

I'm blaming the party that has chosen to put the fees up to £9,000.

Do I back the behaviour? I don't know to be honest, but I can understand why people are angry enough to do that.

I'm not at all happy that the Lib Dems are supporting it. I voted for them and their stance on tuition fees was one of the reasons, so needless to say I won't be voting for them again for some time.

[sambo]

Tory Scum written on the walls inside the HQ...

The actions are OTT, but they sure got the message across

[BuckyRover]

I'm blaming the party that has chosen to put the fees up to £9,000.

Do I back the behaviour? I don't know to be honest, but I can understand why people are angry enough to do that.

I'm not at all happy that the Lib Dems are supporting it. I voted for them and their stance on tuition fees was one of the reasons, so needless to say I won't be voting for them again for some time.

Who commissioned the Browne report and what do you think they would have done when he presented his findings?

I found this post on the Guardian website that explains the storm in a teacup more succinctly than i can.

What are the protesters protesting about? My understanding is that university spending is going to stay about the same, but the government is going to cut back funding, and the difference will be made up by student loans. However, when you strip away the language, the funding today is still provided by the government and the 'loans' will function simply as an increase in the marginal tax rate above £21 000 to be levied on future students. If we make the further simplifying assumption, that the majority of those earning above £21 000 are likely to have university degrees, then then this is equivalent to just raising the future marginal tax rate in the higher income bracket for the younger generation. And funnily enough this is precisely what deficit spending does.

In other words, nothing has actually changed! All that has happened is part of the deficit has been relabeled, and personally assigned to each student. So what the protesters are actually protesting about is the size of the UK public debt, and the higher future rates of marginal taxation that result from it.

Exactly. The marginal tax rate for Graduates earning over £21000 has been increased and nothing more. I don't think it paints our youngsters in a great light tbh, that they cannot grasp this. They hear the word DEBT and go crazy. Real debt is something that has to be paid back and affects other credit decisions you make (credit scoring), this does not.

If you want to earn more money, you have to pay a higher tax rate. Sounds like progressive politics to me.