[Archived] Election

[cletus]

I`m finding it hard to believe so many students could manage to drag themselves out of bed in time to protest!

....at least there`ll not be a repeat of the violence at the inevitable 'Benefit Reforms' protests. Most of the affected people will find making the effort a bit too much

[Mattyblue]

Hope none of you Tory voters are planning on being in hospital soon.

BBC-26,841 job cuts-the majority of which are front-line clinical posts.

I don't believe a word the Unions-epecially those with a vested interest in the public sector. They have an idelogical crusade against the Tories, this is aided by the BBC- no surprises there.

Labour rack up a near trillion pound national debt (all due to the financial crisis of 2008, of course ) and the Tories are painted as the bad guys for atempting to clean up the mess of the most fiscally irresponsible government in our history.

[koi]

Well my missus had a three hour meeting at her hospital the other day to go through the 'savings', I've read through the proposal and the numbers of job proposed to go are nothing like what's being reported. If I was on a band higher than the job description states it should be then I'd be prepared to take a drop . All in all, after I read the document I was shocked at why the proposals are not already common practice. Inefficient management no doubt about it.

[BuckyRover]

I don't believe a word the Unions-epecially those with a vested interest in the public sector. They have an idelogical crusade against the Tories, this is aided by the BBC- no surprises there.

Labour rack up a near trillion pound national debt (all due to the financial crisis of 2008, of course ) and the Tories are painted as the bad guys for atempting to clean up the mess of the most fiscally irresponsible government in our history.

I view it in a very simple way. It's a parent child relationship, we know what's best for them, but they think they know best and go a bit wild. A smaller state benefits everyone. These next few years are gonna be tough, but we will come out better for it.

Take your medicine.

Well my missus had a three hour meeting at her hospital the other day to go through the 'savings', I've read through the proposal and the numbers of job proposed to go are nothing like what's being reported. If I was on a band higher than the job description states it should be then I'd be prepared to take a drop . All in all, after I read the document I was shocked at why the proposals are not already common practice. Inefficient management no doubt about it.

Heretic, scum, bankers bonuses, iron chancellor, spend spend spend etc.

[thenodrog]

Unfortunately it's the unrich that are being filtered out. Back to the days of the wealthy, rather than talented going to Universities. I thought you would be against that Gord.

I thought I made it clear that imo the country can afford to educate the top 25-30% Den? Rich / poor makes no difference.

The current situation where many kids find their way through parental, educational and peer pressure onto one miserable course or another just for the Uni 'experience' (and in doing so are kept off the dole queue for 3 more years as well as cajolled into serious debt before they even earn a penny for themselves) despite having no ambition to make a living from that subject when the graduate is ludicrous, wasteful and too costly for all concerned in terms of both time and money. If thats really the way it has to be then the only other filter option is wealth.

[thenodrog]

Hope none of you Tory voters are planning on being in hospital soon.

BBC-26,841 job cuts-the majority of which are front-line clinical posts.

Ever heard of private health insurance Ozzie? It's good and from the experience that I have had I can recommend it, but it does feel like extortion when taking out private health ins does actually involve paying twice.

[den]

I thought I made it clear that imo the country can afford to educate the top 25-30% Den? Rich / poor makes no difference.

Yes I know. I'm pointing out that under this government you wont get the top 25-30%. You will get the ones who can afford to go to Uni. The higher the fees, the less real talent you will get.

Ever heard of private health insurance Ozzie? It's good and from the experience that I have had I can recommend it, but it does feel like extortion when taking out private health ins does actually involve paying twice.

I hope for your sake Gord, that your wish to opt out of the NHS, whilst paying into Private health insurance doesn't become an option for you.

[thenodrog]

Yes I know. I'm pointing out that you wont get the top 25-30%. You will get the ones who can afford to go to Uni. The higher the fees, the less real talent you will get.

But my point is that if 25% go then the country can afford to educate em for much much less if not nothing. Even in my day parents were subject to a means test which discriminated greatly against the better off..... twas ever thus unfortunately.

[Mattyblue]

Yes I know. I'm pointing out that you wont get the top 25-30%. You will get the ones who can afford to go to Uni. The higher the fees, the less real talent you will get.

Why? You don't pay until you are earning a decent wage post graduation. Why would it matter if you come from a poor household prior to starting at university?

My sister's friend has just started at Uni, she has been living with her Grandma and life has been a real struggle for them in recent years. However, she worked hard and is now enjoying uni life, why would paying fees back when in work have put her off going?

[den]

.

[den]

Why? You don't pay until you are earning a decent wage post graduation. Why would it matter if you come from a poor household prior to starting at university?

Plenty of youngsters from poorer backgrounds, who would have gone to Uni, wont now do so because of the rise in fees. That will happen Matty. Some of those put off will be some of the most talented kids. On the other hand, some of the kids with less talent, but sturdier finances will not be affected by the rise in fees.

lol. Best way I can find of getting a +1 is by saying nothing.

[LeChuck]

I agree that numbers could be reduced, yet they have decided this method is more palatable. The coalition is already unpopular, closing down lesser Universities en masse to reduce the numbers going to Uni, can you imagine the reaction?

I agree that it may put people off but it shouldn't. The terms are incredibly favourable. It's the only "debt" that you will ever incur that isn't assessed on your ability to repay, hence it is not real debt. Real debt is scary, the creditor has a right to take back what it is owed but nobody is ever going to chase you for student debt.

As I said before, this is failure of communication. It could easily be seen to be fairer than it appears at present.

I've already heard some people saying they'll be advising their kids against it as it's not worth the £40k debt.

Whether that decision is right or wrong, it will happen in poor families. It's completely understandable as well, for families on minimum wage earnings it's an unbelievably daunting figure.

As you usually give a decent opposite view point, what do you think to my suggestion earlier of small fees and a graduate tax with a ceiling? To me it sounds like it would generate at least the same (if not more) income without having the dreaded 'debt' word branded all over it. I can't find a fault with it, but I'm sure there is at least one.

Whilst on the subject of debt, it would be incredibly difficult for this government to try and educate that debt isn't always a bad thing considering their whole attack on Labour was (and still is) the national debt.

[jim mk2]

So, Lord Young has let the mask slip of this loathsome government with his "never had it so good comment" showing with his Thatcherite claptrap that this country has passed into the hands of an out-of-touch, unaccountable elite.

In fact, Young has done the British people a favour – now we know exactly what this government thinks of them. The plain truth is, this cabinet of millionaires is out of touch with the rising cost of living, frozen wages and the terror ordinary people have that their jobs will disappear as they're sacrificed to fulfil this government's goal of a low-wage, broken, state-privatised Britain.

With special thanks to Tony Woodley.

[BiggusLaddus]

The last cabinet was also full of millionaires, and 'never had it so good' was a comment that you made yourself in the not too distant past.

[thenodrog]

So, Lord Young has let the mask slip of this loathsome government with his "never had it so good comment"

It's true! The recession is opening so many doors it's excellent for many many people employed in manufacturing and exporting. Bit crap for the paper plane makers and those responsible for joining paperclips together in the public sector mind but they do say that no one can make an omelette without breaking eggs.

[jim mk2]

Surprise, surprise.

It has been revealed tonight that Osborne is set to water down plans to force disclosure of bank bonus payments above £1m, a move that will delight the City.The chancellor has been lobbied by senior bankers who claim that if Britain introduces more pay transparency unilaterally it could put the City at a disadvantage and lead to some banks shifting to New York or other financial centres.

Osborne's change of heart will delight the banks, which have mounted a fierce lobbying operation to persuade him to shelve plans for more transparency ahead of a politically charged bonus season in February and March.

So there you have it. The fat cats who have dragged this country's economy into the mire and caused untold misery for thousands through their greed and incompetance will continue to pay themselves huge bonuses - and because the payments will be kept secret no one will be able to stop them.

The Tory party never changes - looks after its friends in big business while screwing the poor, the weak and the oppressed.

[broadsword]

As opposed to New Labour, who ran scared of the banks and introduced a "light-touch" regulatory system which was a key part in the credit crunch.

[MarkBRFC71]

Shouldn't this thread just be renamed 'Jim's Troll Of The Day?'

[BuckyRover]

It's taken a very long time but I now no longer feel the need to rise to it.

It's a liberating feeling

[den]

It's taken a very long time but I now no longer feel the need to rise to it.

It's a liberating feeling

You can't stop reading it though.

How long can you last Bucky?

[broadsword]

It's blatant stirring and shouldn't be allowed, he's trying to get a rise out of people by posting blatant nonsense. That isn't what this messageboard should be about.

[ABBEY]

now you made me rise bryan.

[Mattyblue]

He reminds me of one of those fellas you see in town centres ranting, wearing a sandwich board stating 'The end is nigh'.

[den]

Yeah, but he does have a point about banker's bonus's, doesn't he? Without going back to the previous governments stance, does no-one who supports the coalition agree with Jim's point?

[ABBEY]

this is the only thread where jim talks sense!!!!

Ok without biting my head off, where has our govt "found " 7 billion pounds ? alls we hear is we are skint ,we have no money,cuts cuts job losses? Im not saying its right or wrong to help ireland but how can we if we have nowt?

If my mate said Abs lend me a grand and i said i cant im maxed out he would say ok no probs i understand . he wouldnt expect me to borrow it to lend him ?

we are either skint or we are not skint?

To me it is taking the ###### out of anyONE job cut that this sort of money has been found and given elsewhere surly it should have gone to hepling ours?