[Archived] Election

[thenodrog]

U Turn alert...... U turn alert.....

The sound of Jim crashing into reverse gear must be being heard all around Oaksides corridors this morning! :!:

http://news.aol.co.uk/main-news/story/miliband-would-work-with-lib-dems/1515613?icid=main|uk-ws-bb|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.co.uk%2Fmain-news%2Fstory%2Fmiliband-would-work-with-lib-dems%2F1515613

Young Odie's brown nosing the Lib Dems now for all he is worth it seems Jim. Who on earth could have predicted that? Now you'll have to eat your words and retract all the scorn and bile that you have directed at the Lib Dems since the election!

Should entertain the board watching you spin your way out of that!

[jim mk2]

For someone who says "politics and politicians leave me cold" you have plenty of opinions and as usual very little knowledge.

If politics and politicians do "leave you cold" might I suggest you stay off this thread in future and stick to your specialist subject denigrating the hard-working "IndoPak" community with your usual racist overtones ?

[thenodrog]

For someone who says "politics and politicians leave me cold" you have plenty of opinions and as usual very little knowledge.

If politics and politicians do "leave you cold" might I suggest you stay off this thread in future and stick to your specialist subject denigrating the hard-working "IndoPak" community with your usual racist overtones ?

Thats a damned poor effort Jim. You are obviously beaten and bowed by the mental image of your glorious leader's puppy dog face as he rolle over and sucks up to the yoghurt knitters and tree huggers that you have said so frequently that you despise so much.

Lick your wounds long enough, apply your usual selective memory and thick skin to the issue and I'm sure that you'll soon get over it.

[thenodrog]

working-class Tory

Hey thats good! Do you know Jim I might just be one of them! I've said for years that the most overlooked and poorly represented group of people in the country are the working man / taxpayer.

Just like Labour re-branded as New Labour the Conservatives should re-brand as the 'Working Class Tory' party. Ditch the Public school Hooray Henry's and the new party would blow the rest of the parasitical, mealy mouthed, work shy, empty promise brigade away for generations.

'Working Class Tories' must surely contribute the majority of the electorate.... after all they ultimately subsidise the bloody lot of em.

Bring it on!!

[jim mk2]

Keep it going Alf.

[tony gale's mic]

Hey thats good! Do you know Jim I might just be one of them! I've said for years that the most overlooked and poorly represented group of people in the country are the working man / taxpayer.

Just like Labour re-branded as New Labour the Conservatives should re-brand as the 'Working Class Tory' party. Ditch the Public school Hooray Henry's and the new party would blow the rest of the parasitical, mealy mouthed, work shy, empty promise brigade away for generations.

'Working Class Tories' must surely contribute the majority of the electorate.... after all they ultimately subsidise the bloody lot of em.

Bring it on!!

...which is why 52% of the country voted for parties which aligned themselves to the left side of the political spectrum in Labour and (pre coalition) Lib Dems.

[thenodrog]

...which is why 52% of the country voted for parties which aligned themselves to the left side of the political spectrum in Labour and (pre coalition) Lib Dems.

Rubbish! Only 65% of the country even bothered to vote!

A remarkeable mistake for someone who continually derides other posters as imbeciles and constantly reminds us all that he has a "brain the size of a planet".

[tony gale's mic]

Rubbish! Only 65% of the country even bothered to vote!

A remarkeable mistake for someone who continually derides other posters as imbeciles and constantly reminds us all that he has a "brain the size of a planet".

Only use quotation marks if someone has actually said those words Gordon. I have not said those words; nor have I said words to that effect.

Guilty as charged about calling out a select brand of other posters on their cognitive abilities, not sure if "imbeciles" was the word I used though.

If you didn't vote, your opinion doesn't count. If you're a "working class Tory" but don't have strong enough beliefs to mark a bit of paper once every five years, then clearly you don't care about politics very much at all.

Oh, and learn how to spell "remarkable", you imbecile.

[jim mk2]

Dear me Gordon, for someone who says "politics and politicians leave me cold" you do get vexed at times.

Rather like Alf in fact.

Here's some more bedtime reading for you - Labour well ahead in the latest polls.

Sleep well.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

[BuckyRover]

Breaking news:

Labour rise in polls as Government make cuts.

[thenodrog]

Breaking news:

Labour rise in polls as Government make cuts.

Well I never! Goodness me that is a shock!

Only use quotation marks if someone has actually said those words Gordon. I have not said those words; nor have I said words to that effect.

Guilty as charged about calling out a select brand of other posters on their cognitive abilities, not sure if "imbeciles" was the word I used though.

If you didn't vote, your opinion doesn't count. If you're a "working class Tory" but don't have strong enough beliefs to mark a bit of paper once every five years, then clearly you don't care about politics very much at all.

Oh, and learn how to spell "remarkable", you imbecile.

Considering you profess to have a brain the size of a planet tony you do seem to be becoming somewhat 'paranoid'.

Hang on..........

[tony gale's mic]

Considering you profess to have a brain the size of a planet tony you do seem to be becoming somewhat 'paranoid'.

Hang on..........

Yes, and you've professed to hating blacks, muslims and homosexuals.

Did you see what I did there?

[JAL]

It looks like the British rich are intent on killing off the poor very quickly with their proposed changes to the NHS.

Whilst the ministers look for their cut from the banks £7.4 billion bonuses and ignore the missing £100 billion that stays out of the taxmans hands aint life great.

I'm struggling to understand just who are the real criminals in this country.

[thenodrog]

It looks like the British rich are intent on killing off the poor very quickly with their proposed changes to the NHS.

Whilst the ministers look for their cut from the banks £7.4 billion bonuses and ignore the missing £100 billion that stays out of the taxmans hands aint life great.

I'm struggling to understand just who are the real criminals in this country.

JAL the finances of the NHS are abused beyond belief. I struggle to comprehend the inefficienies and the sheer waste of taxpayers money that I regularly encounter particularly now that my aged mother is requiring fairly regular treatments. A National Health service is fine in principle but has become a disaster and a shambles in reallity. The health care is fine per sae but the entire organisation has been overburdened by legislation and admin. On top of that it has now become a massive cash cow for GP's and consultants. Take away the obvious advances in drugs and equipment and imo actual hospital treatment does not compare with that of 40 years ago.

It's a dinosaur and if you don't mind a pun the NHS has become a sick joke.

[thenodrog]

Yes, and you've professed to hating blacks, muslims and homosexuals.

Did you see what I did there?

No you've edited it.

As for 52% of the country voting pinko you still haven't corrected that. Using your figure that's just 33% of the electorate and with the electorate only being approx 80% of the population that reckons up to be 26% of the population of the country voted pinko. Reads differently now that I've introduced some accuracy doesn't it?

btw that 'brain the size of a planet' thingy. Everybody else could see that I was just taking the p1ss. How come you couldn't Marvin?

[Paul]

JAL the finances of the NHS are abused beyond belief. I struggle to comprehend the inefficienies and the sheer waste of taxpayers money that I regularly encounter particularly now that my aged mother is requiring fairly regular treatments. A National Health service is fine in principle but has become a disaster and a shambles in reallity. The health care is fine per sae but the entire organisation has been overburdened by legislation and admin. On top of that it has now become a massive cash cow for GP's and consultants. Take away the obvious advances in drugs and equipment and imo actual hospital treatment does not compare with that of 40 years ago.

It's a dinosaur and if you don't mind a pun the NHS has become a sick joke.

While I'd agree there is room for money to be saved much of this post is largely ill-informed and does not reflect my experience. Which hospital because this can make a huge difference?

[thenodrog]

While I'd agree there is room for money to be saved much of this post is largely ill-informed and does not reflect my experience. Which hospital because this can make a huge difference?

BRI/RBH.

There is probably plenty of funding to provide top level care for the place if only waste of available resources could be eliminated. Also Admin overburdens and invades everything and draws time and resource away from patient care. Morale within the actual nursing and support staff is far from great Paul. Do you not know ant personally? I do and they all seem to sing off the same hymn sheet. Standards of care must have slipped as MRSA figures illustrate.

Do you never wonder why there is a thriving private health industry? There certainly wasn't when we were young.

[tony gale's mic]

No you've edited it.

As for 52% of the country voting pinko you still haven't corrected that. Using your figure that's just 33% of the electorate and with the electorate only being approx 80% of the population that reckons up to be 26% of the population of the country voted pinko. Reads differently now that I've introduced some accuracy doesn't it?

btw that 'brain the size of a planet' thingy. Everybody else could see that I was just taking the p1ss. How come you couldn't Marvin?

It still doesn't make a difference.

Your point was that the majority of the electorate consisted of "working class Tories".

The sample of the electorate provided in our latest general election (65%, almost two thirds of those of voting age) provided the results I described, where the majority (52%) voted Labour/Lib Dem (not taking into account Green, SDLP voters in Northern Ireland etc which would probably push the figure closer to 60%).

This was in a year with the biggest discontent with a "left wing" Government (I use the term in inverted commas for obvious reasons) seen in decades too - so one would have expected a similar effect to that seen in '97 when millions of people who were Tory at heart voted for Labour.

There's no point bringing up the population of the country since you only brought up "electorate" in your initial post.

But if 34% of our electorate voted for Labour/Lib Dems, then only 23% voted for the Tories. Both sides can be bumped up a few per cent for Green/UKIP/BNP/SDLP/UUP which are all aligned to a specific side too.

So either:

a) You're talking rubbish, as per usual and the majority of this country supports parties aligned to the left side of the spectrum; or

B ) There's a disproportionately large groundswell of "working class Tories" in this country who somehow were all unable to vote this year, despite the public feeling towards Labour being almost as bad as public feeling towards the Tories in 1997.

What's it to be?

JAL the finances of the NHS are abused beyond belief. I struggle to comprehend the inefficienies and the sheer waste of taxpayers money that I regularly encounter particularly now that my aged mother is requiring fairly regular treatments. A National Health service is fine in principle but has become a disaster and a shambles in reallity. The health care is fine per sae but the entire organisation has been overburdened by legislation and admin. On top of that it has now become a massive cash cow for GP's and consultants. Take away the obvious advances in drugs and equipment and imo actual hospital treatment does not compare with that of 40 years ago.

It's a dinosaur and if you don't mind a pun the NHS has become a sick joke.

Is this all from first hand experience of the NHS?

It's just that it seems like someone's cut out bits of Daily Mail pieces and pasted them together.

[thenodrog]

It still doesn't make a difference.

Your point was that the majority of the electorate consisted of "working class Tories".

The sample of the electorate provided in our latest general election (65%, almost two thirds of those of voting age) provided the results I described, where the majority (52%) voted Labour/Lib Dem (not taking into account Green, SDLP voters in Northern Ireland etc which would probably push the figure closer to 60%).

This was in a year with the biggest discontent with a "left wing" Government (I use the term in inverted commas for obvious reasons) seen in decades too - so one would have expected a similar effect to that seen in '97 when millions of people who were Tory at heart voted for Labour.

There's no point bringing up the population of the country since you only brought up "electorate" in your initial post.

But if 34% of our electorate voted for Labour/Lib Dems, then only 23% voted for the Tories. Both sides can be bumped up a few per cent for Green/UKIP/BNP/SDLP/UUP which are all aligned to a specific side too.

So either:

a) You're talking rubbish, as per usual and the majority of this country supports parties aligned to the left side of the spectrum; or

B ) There's a disproportionately large groundswell of "working class Tories" in this country who somehow were all unable to vote this year, despite the public feeling towards Labour being almost as bad as public feeling towards the Tories in 1997.

What's it to be?

Is this all from first hand experience of the NHS?

It's just that it seems like someone's cut out bits of Daily Mail pieces and pasted them together.

Are you still here Marvin? Remarkeable, I thought you would have been banned for your odious acusations made without any sort of proof. You should have.

Trueblue did say mods are overworked. They really must be.

[tony gale's mic]

Are you still here Marvin? Remarkeable, I thought you would have been banned for your odious acusations made without any sort of proof. You should have.

Trueblue did say mods are overworked. They really must be.

Oh Gordon, you are so terribly dim.

At no point did you explicitly say you hated Asians, black people or homosexuals, just like I never said I had a "brain the size of a planet".

I suspect and would hope the mods would see that fairly obvious point contained within my post.

Now, care to debate the rest of my post, or would you like cream with your humble pie?

[jim mk2]

JAL the finances of the NHS are abused beyond belief. I struggle to comprehend the inefficienies and the sheer waste of taxpayers money that I regularly encounter particularly now that my aged mother is requiring fairly regular treatments. A National Health service is fine in principle but has become a disaster and a shambles in reallity. The health care is fine per sae but the entire organisation has been overburdened by legislation and admin. On top of that it has now become a massive cash cow for GP's and consultants. Take away the obvious advances in drugs and equipment and imo actual hospital treatment does not compare with that of 40 years ago.

It's a dinosaur and if you don't mind a pun the NHS has become a sick joke.

Taxi-driver's view of the NHS along with most of your political pronouncements.

You are becoming a parody of own obnoxious self.

[thenodrog]

Taxi-driver's view of the NHS along with most of your political pronouncements.

You are becoming a parody of own obnoxious self.

Thank you for that. And your point is......?

[Paul]

BRI/RBH.

There is probably plenty of funding to provide top level care for the place if only waste of available resources could be eliminated. Also Admin overburdens and invades everything and draws time and resource away from patient care. Morale within the actual nursing and support staff is far from great Paul. Do you not know ant personally? I do and they all seem to sing off the same hymn sheet. Standards of care must have slipped as MRSA figures illustrate.

Over the last 30+ years many frontline staff, very senior admin, social workers and again very senior admin, GPs. So to answer the question - yes, I know some health care professionals. And you?

IF you take the time to talk to the professionals you will discover there is frustration. IF you talk to management / admin you will find there is frustration at the levels of red tape etc. IF you talk to most NHS staff they can see shortcomings, failures and better ways to do things. However what you will also find IF you talk to them or experience the care is an enormously dedicated group of people, working very hard, to provide an outstanding level of care and "service" (for want of a better description) to the public. The improvements in recent years in all areas of public health are extraordinary, of course there are frustrations and areas which still don't work but one has to look at the whole picture not headlines in outraged tabloids. Is there too much red tape? probably but it's there for very good reasons in many instances.

It's very easy to use the headlines surrounding MSRA, GP pay, consultants on £100k overtime and blow the whole thing up out of proportion.

Do you never wonder why there is a thriving private health industry? There certainly wasn't when we were young.

Well there was where I lived. BUPA has been around a long time. I'd agree there was a period when the NHS was in a real mess and if one wanted treatment quickly, for whatever reason, private was the answer. The industry has grown and thrives on the back of the NHS ( I don't notice the private sector training many professionals) and to my mind is primarily there to support people who, for their own reasons, don't wish to wait for treatment. Fine by me I don't have a problem with that but I don't understand the mentality of paying twice for the same service.

If I'm going to be sick or need social care there's only one country I'd want to live. Every ex-pat I know says they'd return to the UK if ill-health became an issue. I'm not knocking other countries healthcare just relating what has been said to me.Presumably this is because they know standards are high and it's free at point of delivery.

[thenodrog]

Over the last 30+ years many frontline staff, very senior admin, social workers and again very senior admin, GPs. So to answer the question - yes, I know some health care professionals. And you? READ MY POST AGAIN PLEASE PAUL.

...........................

......... but I don't understand the mentality of paying twice for the same service. WELL DONT THEN. TRUTH IS THAT WHEN WE ARE DEALING WITH OUR HEALTH THE SOONER SOMETHING IS TREATED THE SOONER AND BETTER CHANCE COMPLETE RECOVERY WILL HAPPEN. THIS LIFE IS NOT A REHEARSAL. WE CAN'T TACK YEARS SPENT LIMPING ALONG WAITING FOIR AN OPERATION ON AT THE END.

If I'm going to be sick or need social care there's only one country I'd want to live. Every ex-pat I know says they'd return to the UK if ill-health became an issue. I'm not knocking other countries healthcare just relating what has been said to me.Presumably this is because they know standards are high and it's free at point of delivery.

AND THERE'S THE RUB. HOW ABOUT REDUCING NHS CONTRIBUTIONS AND INTRODUCING SOME LEVEL OF FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTION FOR TREATMENT? WOULD RID THE NHS OF LOTS OF TIME WASTERS AND ATTENTION SEEKERS THAT ARE EATING UP VALUABLE RESOURCES I'M SURE.

[Paul]

There's no point in this as you're just going to come out with the usual blah, blah, blah.......................and please stop shouting