[Archived] Election

[BuckyRover]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-14-road-safety-mmo-flop-cost-labour-GBP2-8m

Money well spent

[JAL]

JAL the finances of the NHS are abused beyond belief. I struggle to comprehend the inefficienies and the sheer waste of taxpayers money that I regularly encounter particularly now that my aged mother is requiring fairly regular treatments. A National Health service is fine in principle but has become a disaster and a shambles in reallity. The health care is fine per sae but the entire organisation has been overburdened by legislation and admin. On top of that it has now become a massive cash cow for GP's and consultants. Take away the obvious advances in drugs and equipment and imo actual hospital treatment does not compare with that of 40 years ago.

It's a dinosaur and if you don't mind a pun the NHS has become a sick joke.

Like you Thenodrog along with the rest of us, we all look forward to seeing further improvements in the NHS if it is sick, and NOT underfunding from the government of the day that will just simply reduce its sustainability and effectiveness for future generations.

Afterall 'our' people have invested heavily in immigration, so they cant stop now by pulling the plug on the NHS simply because they arent getting as many millions of pounds as they think they should be entitled to.

[jim mk2]

Cameron needs to tread very carefully over his planned reforms to the NHS which was transformed by Tony Blair into the world-class service it is today.

With a touch of luck It could be his poll tax.

http://www.telegraph...id-Cameron.html

[sparkspakespoke]

Cameron needs to tread very carefully over his planned reforms to the NHS which was transformed by Tony Blair into the world-class service it is today.

With a touch of luck It could be his poll tax.

http://www.telegraph...id-Cameron.html

Speaking as someone who spent years working in the NHS I can tell you it is not a world class service, and under Tony Blair parts of it were allowed to degrade disgustingly, dentistry in particular. However Camerons cuts reforms pose the biggest threat to it since its existance. He needs to be very careful as the NHS and all it stands for is the crowning glory of this country.

[jim mk2]

Successive governments have run down the NHS dentistry service and should be seen as a warning for the rest of the service. The NHS dental contracts are about to be re-written so expect further change and upheaval.

[thenodrog]

There's no point in this as you're just going to come out with the usual blah, blah, blah.......................and please stop shouting

Silly response Paul. Stop trying to score points. I wasn't shouting just differentiating within your post. You knew that really didn't you?

Speaking as someone who spent years working in the NHS I can tell you it is not a world class service, ............ the NHS and all it stands for is the crowning glory of this country.

Somewhat confusing and contradictory statements sss.

[tony gale's mic]

It still doesn't make a difference.

Your point was that the majority of the electorate consisted of "working class Tories".

The sample of the electorate provided in our latest general election (65%, almost two thirds of those of voting age) provided the results I described, where the majority (52%) voted Labour/Lib Dem (not taking into account Green, SDLP voters in Northern Ireland etc which would probably push the figure closer to 60%).

This was in a year with the biggest discontent with a "left wing" Government (I use the term in inverted commas for obvious reasons) seen in decades too - so one would have expected a similar effect to that seen in '97 when millions of people who were Tory at heart voted for Labour.

There's no point bringing up the population of the country since you only brought up "electorate" in your initial post.

But if 34% of our electorate voted for Labour/Lib Dems, then only 23% voted for the Tories. Both sides can be bumped up a few per cent for Green/UKIP/BNP/SDLP/UUP which are all aligned to a specific side too.

So either:

a) You're talking rubbish, as per usual and the majority of this country supports parties aligned to the left side of the spectrum; or

B ) There's a disproportionately large groundswell of "working class Tories" in this country who somehow were all unable to vote this year, despite the public feeling towards Labour being almost as bad as public feeling towards the Tories in 1997.

What's it to be?

And what a surprise.

No response from the village idiot.

[sparkspakespoke]

Silly response Paul. Stop trying to score points. I wasn't shouting just differentiating within your post. You knew that really didn't you?

Somewhat confusing and contradictory statements sss.

Yes maybe not very well put. The service the NHS provided under Blair was not worl class in my opinion, mainly because of the pressure put on the service to reduce waiting lists. This was not done by providing more people with the treatmentthey needed, rather simple procedures were rushed through in order to paint a better picture.

I still believe the what the NHS stands for is something we can be proud of though. The simple concept that no one shall be without treatment no matter whaat their means is fantastic, its the true British spirit. I also believ the people who actually work on the front line service, as I did, do truely great job under constant stress and are a credit us.

[thenodrog]

And what a surprise.

No response from the village idiot.

And there wont be. My earlier post said enough.

Marvin apparently you are some sort of medic / nursey type so tell me, are you familiar with 'Little man big keyboard syndrome'?

[jim mk2]

, are you familiar with 'Little man big keyboard syndrome'?

the gaffe-prone PM puts his foot in it again.

http://www.dailymail...p.html?ITO=1490

[RibbleValleyRover]

£1TRILLION: Our National Debt pushes through barrier to reach £40,000 per household

Think about what that £43 billion in interest that we will pay this year could have been spent on...

A damning indictment of the previous administration and their financial competency.

[thenodrog]

Coming from a 5ft midget ???

You simply wouldn't dare say anything like that if I were 6ft and 17 stone would you?

Everybody hates bullying Jim. And by keep ridiculing what you imagine is my stature in this way you are exhibiting all the hallmarks of one.

You continually insinuate that I am a racist and to the eternal shame of moderation you appear to be immune from censure. You did just that twice on the previous page. Well race is determined by genes just as height is. What does that make you? Nothing more than a hateful and spiteful bully.

[sambo]

And there wont be. My earlier post said enough.

Marvin apparently you are some sort of medic / nursey type so tell me, are you familiar with 'Little man big keyboard syndrome'?

Pot. Kettle. Black!

[colin]

Everybody hates bullying Jim.

I don't think you do.

That's just my opinion.

[thenodrog]

I don't think you do.

That's just my opinion.

Can a bully be snidey Colin? Hardly. Your opinions as usual count for nowt.

[tony gale's mic]

And there wont be. My earlier post said enough.

Marvin apparently you are some sort of medic / nursey type so tell me, are you familiar with 'Little man big keyboard syndrome'?

Why yes, I'm one of those highly respected doctor types Gordon.

Sadly despite my vast capabilities I can't do anything about your "little man big keyboard syndrome", whereby you try and fire weak insults when confronted with a legitimate argument.

[jim mk2]

A damning indictment of the previous administration and their financial competency.

MYTHS AND LIES ABOUT PUBLIC DEBT AS PROMOTED BY THE CONDEM GOVT AND THE RIGHT WING PRESS

MYTH: Government debt is the highest it’s ever been

The UK’s government debt is at around 70 per cent of GDP (the total amount of goods and services produced in one year). That is certainly high, but it is far from unprecedented.

Government debt never fell below 100 per cent of GDP between 1920 and 1960. It is only in the past decade or so that it has become normal to think of government debt being stable at around 40 per cent of GDP.

It is worth noting that government debt reached 250 per cent of GDP around the end of the second world war, as the result of a ‘once in a generation’ economic and political crisis. It is certainly arguable that we are now living through a similarly momentous crisis.

MYTH: The UK’s debt crisis is one of the worst in the world

Just as the current level of government debt is not unprecedented historically, neither is it substantially higher than that of other countries.

IMF data (IMF World Economic Outlook Database, April 2010) shows the UK has the lowest government debt as a proportion of GDP among the G7 countries (the US, Canada, Germany, Britain, Japan, Italy and France).

Much has been made by Cameron and Osborne of Gordon Brown’s ‘imprudent borrowing record’. They say that before the spending to stabilise the financial system, public debt was high.

But again, IMF comparisons of the level of public debt prior to 2007 showed the UK in a much better position than many comparable countries, such as France, Canada, the US and even Germany, the home of fiscal rectitude.

MYTH: Government debt is ‘unsustainable’

The sustainability of government debt is not just dictated by its size, but by its make up. We have already seen that government debt is at a comparable level to other similarly sized economies. Where the UK is in a much stronger position, however, is in the nature of its debt.

While countries such as Greece tend to owe money to external financiers, the vast majority of UK debt – about 70 to 80 per cent – is held within the country.

And the UK’s debt is not so short term. Countries such as Greece, Ireland and Portugal have average debt maturity rates of between six to eight years, but UK government debt stands out among international comparisons as being much longer term at well over 12 years on average.

This means that the UK has to ask the financial markets to refinance its debts much less frequently, making it less vulnerable to short-term speculative pressures and much more able to continue to finance its debts on a sustainable basis.

More on here. Read it: you might learn something

http://taxpayersalliance.org/files/cutsmyths.pdf

[Biddy]

Please keep this thread on topic.I quite enjoy reading both sides of the real argument in here so don't want to see the thread closed. The general sniping and personal insults between a certain 3 members needs to stop though.

[thenodrog]

Cameron needs to tread very carefully over his planned reforms to the NHS which was transformed by Tony Blair into the world-class service it is today.

With a touch of luck It could be his poll tax.

Rum do that. The fairest and most equitable tax that there ever has been (anybody rem the rates ) where every adult was required to pay the same amount to support local services in their area is remembered chiefly for bringing down a Prime Minister.

Is it any wonder that people are turning against our form of democratic government?

[SouthAussieRover]

Rum do that. The fairest and most equitable tax that there ever has been (anybody rem the rates ) where every adult was required to pay the same amount to support local services in their area is remembered chiefly for bringing down a Prime Minister.

Is it any wonder that people are turning against our form of democratic government?

You should be nominated for some sort of award for your recollection of history.

Fairest and most equitable..?

FFS, you've bettered even the most ludicrous of your statements.

[thenodrog]

You should be nominated for some sort of award for your recollection of history.

Fairest and most equitable..?

FFS, you've bettered even the most ludicrous of your statements.

Care to explain Don?

imo Everybody paid an equal amount for the same services and facilities in any given community. I think it was completely fair even though it was ironically steeped in the principles of socialism. I don't particularly think that I am a socialist and I'm damned sure it's instigator Margaret Thatcher never claimed to be either, yet it was her undoing caused mainly by left wingers and anarchists who had abandoned left wing principles and adopted a right wing stance. Most odd eh Don? How do you recall it. Be serious and not dismissive or rude please.

[SouthAussieRover]

Care to explain Don?

imo Everybody paid an equal amount for the same services and facilities in any given community. I think it was completely fair even though it was ironically steeped in the principles of socialism. I don't particularly think that I am a socialist and I'm damned sure it's instigator Margaret Thatcher never claimed to be either, yet it was her undoing caused mainly by left wingers and anarchists who had abandoned left wing principles and adopted a right wing stance. Most odd eh Don? How do you recall it. Be serious and not dismissive or rude please.

Well it started off okay being based on everyone pays the same for services.It failed to take into account the wealth or earning capacity of the individual.It effectively shifted the tax burden from the rich to the poor..a favourite tactic of all Conservative governments.

Another problem was that it lead to people removing their names from the electoral roll.Thus the tax began to disenfranchise sections of the vote. Given this section would be unlikely to vote Conservative then the government of the day was unlikely to be worried about that. As more people dropped off the roll the burden was passed on to those remaining on the roll.

What I do recall with fondness is that it lead to the downfall of Margaret Thatcher.That "nice" person Heseltine took his opportunity to seek revenge on the rabid rightwinger in number 10.

[colin]

Rum do that. The fairest and most equitable tax that there ever has been (anybody rem the rates ) where every adult was required to pay the same amount to support local services in their area is remembered chiefly for bringing down a Prime Minister.

It's OK, you're just trolling. Well done. Only a complete cretin would beleive that The Duke Of Westminster should pay the same amount of tax as the person who cleaned his bogs on minimum wage.

Nice one.

[thenodrog]

Well it started off okay being based on everyone pays the same for services. It failed to take into account the wealth or earning capacity of the individual. It effectively shifted the tax burden from the rich to the poor.

What on earth is wrong with that? It was truly fair. You sound off about rabid right wingers yet is that not a perfect form of socialism? Or do you only like to cheerily pick and choose socialist principles when it suits?

Why do people who share your views expect other people to pay their way through life? There is already a property tax in the UK in stamp duty and death duty which is a tax on wealth. Most people who have a more expensive property will have paid more income tax and more VAT in the past. People who share your views need to get some self respect and stop themselves from going through life sucking on somebody elses nipple.

[jim mk2]

It's OK, you're just trolling. Well done. Only a complete cretin would beleive that The Duke Of Westminster should pay the same amount of tax as the person who cleaned his bogs on minimum wage.

Nice one.

Gordon ("politicians and politics leave me cold") ignored that one which explains perfectly why the poll tax was binned by the Tories who then punished Thatcher by binning her as well.

Thatcher was a property freak who thought there was nothing wrong with excessive mortgage lending and rising house prices. The 2007-08 banking collapse and subsequent govt. bail-out that led to the current huge public deficit are a direct consequence of her blindness and stupidity.

UK property is under-taxed. Until strict mortgage lending criteria as a multiples of salary are restored and principal homes are subject to capital gains tax there is nothing to stop another property boom in future years with all the damage it will again cause to the wider economy.