[Archived] Football Manager 2011

[DeadlyDirk]

A players stats are linked to their CA though, no? Or in other words, those CA points have to be 'distributed' somewhere?

I did a test game a while ago. I was Swindon in the PL but I was bored stiff of having no money, so I used FM Scout to find all players with PA >180 and bought them. Some had awful stats, they weren't even getting games in the Championship.

I stuck with them though and played them week in, week out. Nearly got relegated the first season, but I won the title in the third year. It was unreal how much some of the stats went up simply from first team football.

On the flip side, I used the tool to look at the stats of young kids I thought I'd found that were going to be stars. They had pretty decent stats but a low PA, that explained why they hadn't progressed in two seasons despite playing all the time.

I also discovered I had a young lad with PA 170 lurking in my team. I nearly released him because his stats were so bad, he had pace but barely anything else over 10. He ended up being a regular England international after a few years.

I think I took some screen shots of some of these players after their stats had gone up, I'll see if I can dig them out.

Well to be fair the CA's do come from the attributes but that doesn't always come across so effectively when it's turned the other way. As I think Majiball said you could have a striker with a 150 CA but who has finishing and composure of 2 and just happens to be a beast in other areas. Meanwhile you have a player with a 135 CA who is excellent at finishing and composure but just lacks the ability to perhaps use both feet or maybe he can't tackle or pass to save his life. The second player is likely to be more effective in the game.

Of course if you use a scouting tool to find out who are going to be the best overall players then the odds are that some of them will make it and have the right distribution of attributes to enable you to do well. But then you could also use an editing tool, find all of the best players in the world right now like Messi and transfer them to Rovers, neither way is realistic.

Then there are so many other attributes, a lot of them hidden which will have a large bearing on how well they progress and perform in game. E.G. A player with great attributes but very low determination is more or less useless as soon as you go behind. A player with low consistency will only perform to that CA a handful of times, the rest of the time he could be well below it. Professionalism and ambition is the biggest factor on how they progress. An umambitious player won't progress as well as someone that is and if they are unprofessional then it's almost impossible to get them anywhere near their PA without a lot of nurturing.

The ratings are a guide and it's up to you to use them how you wish to just in real life. The better the scouts you have the more accurate they are in their judging of ability and potential ability. The ones that have enormous potential in relation to where their CA is now, e.g. over 100 points are often missed by the scouts but then that's realistic as well in a way. What coach can pick out a kid that is basically crap and say in a few years time he'll be a star for England, they usually can only pick the ones that have shown some ability already and can predict that they will continue to get better, not jump the gun and say this 16 year old is going to be a world beater, that only happens in rare cases like perhaps Messi, who to be fair was probably showing plenty of ability as a ten year old.

My main problem is that the game generates far too many good youngsters which is why a decent midfielder at the start of the game soon turns to championship level after a few seasons just because there is such a depth of talent around.

[LeChuck]

Don't disagree with any of that Dirk, and I must point out that I only ever played that one game with the editor as a test.

Since then I've taken notice if a good scout/coach tells me someone has the potential to be World class; I play them on a fairly regular basis, regardless of stats. It doesn't always work out (it is only potential after all) but most times I'll get at least a good squad player.

I definitely think the youth thing needs to be more in-depth, but my point was that I think it creates roughly the right amount of local/homegrown talent per team based on what happens in real life. Look at ManUre's current crop (Evans, Gibson, Macheda, Welbeck, Da Silva(s)) - only one of those is English!

If you want a lot of talent in your youth teams, you have to buy them early, just like in real life.

[DeadlyDirk]

Don't disagree with any of that Dirk, and I must point out that I only ever played that one game with the editor as a test.

Since then I've taken notice if a good scout/coach tells me someone has the potential to be World class; I play them on a fairly regular basis, regardless of stats. It doesn't always work out (it is only potential after all) but most times I'll get at least a good squad player.

I definitely think the youth thing needs to be more in-depth, but my point was that I think it creates roughly the right amount of local/homegrown talent per team based on what happens in real life. Look at ManUre's current crop (Evans, Gibson, Macheda, Welbeck, Da Silva(s)) - only one of those is English!

If you want a lot of talent in your youth teams, you have to buy them early, just like in real life.

I agree the best way is to buy them young and then nurture them, personally though I feel that there are far too many highly rated youngsters in the game. For example I mentioned a year or so back that during researching there have only been 5 players in the last 6 years (English Players) that we deemed good enough to have a CA rating of over 170 Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, John Terry yet the game produces 10-12 English Players with a PA of 170+ every year so over the same time frame (5 years) there are about 50 English players who are that good, compared to 6 at the start of the game.

This is of course then replicated as you go down through the class of player, plenty more 160 players, 150, 140 etc. So the midtable average players, like the ones at Rovers for example start to look worse and worse. Perhaps it's fair to say that in the future the average standard of player will be better but I wouldn't have thought it will be by that much.

It does also help explain why many of youngsters with decent potential never make it even though they were given perfectly acceptable potential ratings at the start of the game. It's just that when they start reaching that potential of say 140-145 it's no longer the level of ability you need to play in the premiership.

Anyways just a few views, I'm trying not to ramble.

[awhom111]

I agree the best way is to buy them young and then nurture them, personally though I feel that there are far too many highly rated youngsters in the game. For example I mentioned a year or so back that during researching there have only been 5 players in the last 6 years (English Players) that we deemed good enough to have a CA rating of over 170 Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, John Terry yet the game produces 10-12 English Players with a PA of 170+ every year so over the same time frame (5 years) there are about 50 English players who are that good, compared to 6 at the start of the game.

This is of course then replicated as you go down through the class of player, plenty more 160 players, 150, 140 etc. So the midtable average players, like the ones at Rovers for example start to look worse and worse. Perhaps it's fair to say that in the future the average standard of player will be better but I wouldn't have thought it will be by that much.

It does also help explain why many of youngsters with decent potential never make it even though they were given perfectly acceptable potential ratings at the start of the game. It's just that when they start reaching that potential of say 140-145 it's no longer the level of ability you need to play in the premiership.

Anyways just a few views, I'm trying not to ramble.

That's not actually true in FM10. The PA of regens has been decreased significantly since FM09. I think you may remember my experiment last year on the SI forums where I tracked all the regens at Blackburn and from the big clubs. I am doing that again this year and there are plenty of years with 0 or 1 players with 170+ PAs even though the total number of regens per year spawning in England has basically doubled from FM09 to FM10.

Here is this year's version:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=201098

[DeadlyDirk]

That's not actually true in FM10. The PA of regens has been decreased significantly since FM09. I think you may remember my experiment last year on the SI forums where I tracked all the regens at Blackburn and from the big clubs. I am doing that again this year and there are plenty of years with 0 or 1 players with 170+ PAs even though the total number of regens per year spawning in England has basically doubled from FM09 to FM10.

Here is this year's version:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=201098

It's true my experiment was on 2009, I haven't played around with the generation of youngsters nearly as much with 2010 so that is pleasing to know it's come down. On the whole I still think it's a little high compared to real life though.

I do remember reading you're 09 thread or at least 20 seasons or so of it! I'll try and have a deeper read of your 10 thread, if you haven't joined the testing team then you probably should, I'm sure they'll have some vacancies when the first build of 11 is coming up. You certainly seem to be prepared to put the work in, I joined it last year and it's amazing just how many simple things are often missed so the more the merrier assuming they are hiring again.

[American]

It's true my experiment was on 2009, I haven't played around with the generation of youngsters nearly as much with 2010 so that is pleasing to know it's come down. On the whole I still think it's a little high compared to real life though.

I do remember reading you're 09 thread or at least 20 seasons or so of it! I'll try and have a deeper read of your 10 thread, if you haven't joined the testing team then you probably should, I'm sure they'll have some vacancies when the first build of 11 is coming up. You certainly seem to be prepared to put the work in, I joined it last year and it's amazing just how many simple things are often missed so the more the merrier assuming they are hiring again.

That just sounds so wrong!!

[Commondore]

Im in my 5th season at Notts Forrest....i got them up & iv developed my training facilities and youth academy to state of art and classed as one of the best in the world.

Iv signed probably 40+ players aged between 15-18 and sent them on loans & to feeder clubs etc.

In my 5th season now - in the 4th season I won the league & both cups with an average age of 20.

In the 5th season im 8 pts clear after 27 games, my U-18's are top and also my reserves sit on top too. Iv got many youth players who have spent 2-3 seasons out on loan - signed them for 50-100k and they are now worth £1.5-3m each.

My keeper & my right back both came direct from my academy. I also tend to find that Irish clubs tend to have alot of good talent which my scouts always find. I also have 17 scouts scouring every area for players 19 and under.

The realism of this game never cease to amaze...

[DE.]

If the game was completely realistic it wouldn't be much fun, would it?

[Tim Southampton Rover]

It wouldn't if we were Blackburn!

We'd start squirting bottles at our fans

[Hughesy]

The realism of this game never cease to amaze...

Maybe so - but my youngsters are awesome. My keeper (20) & right back (19) are classed as wonderkids, my left midfielder (22) just won European midfielder of the year, and im playing 3 strikers who are aged 18,19 & 20.

I go with what my scouts tell me about players - if they say that a player has the potential to be a leading star for any team - then I tend to sign them & throw them into the team or match day 18. I dont really look at the stats - just give them game time & they rapidly progress - abit like Jones, NZonzi & Olsson I suppose!

[DeadlyDirk]

My boss always complains it's not realistic enough when I win the league with Rovers, if they went for ultra realism then it'd be boring, I think the balance is about right to be fair.

You're not going to be winning the league with a mediocre club until at least 2 or 3 seasons unless you've already played a few games and know all of the best prospects to buy and tactics to use etc.

If it was any harder and it took 10+ seasons to have any chance of winning the league with a club outside the top 6 then people would stop buying it.

There's things they could improve to make it more realistic but the most unrealistic thing is the fact that you can look at any player in the world and find out anything about him either straight from the off or after a week or so scouting them. In real life you'd never be able to do something like this but history suggests that it's what people grew to love about the game more than anything.

The sort of information you can find out about some 18 year old Brazilian from Flamengo would probably take 6+ weeks in real life for one player, people would get bored not being able to sign anyone.

There's usually numerous challenges on the official forums, I remember doing one last season when you only buy people that your scouts find or from the transfer list and it's certainly a lot trickier and can get pretty tedious at times, especially in the lower leagues where you might only have one or two scouts.

[Hughesy]

I make myself a 'rule in my head' - where I cant sign anyone over the age of 21...simply buy them based on scout reports, although some reports I ignore if some of the stats look good on a player - I also never use the editor or whatever to 'cheat'.

Id love to see them add in abit more of the commercial side in (although its not specific to managers at some clubs) - sponsorship deals, new kit designs etc.

[Eddie]

I'd love it if it took a bit longer to scout players, if players and teams needed a bit more experience to be successful, if it took longer for sides to gel and there was more of a reward for keeping a squad together and if it did take a bit longer to put together a winning side. It would be far more satisfying to win the league if it really took some effort.

[DE.]

There has to be a balance struck, though. If those things took too long people would become bored and stop playing. I do agree that the game is a little too easy at the moment, but I think they're pretty close to balancing the fun/realism aspects. There are always going to be match engine flaws that players can exploit - these are always going to render success at an unrealistic rate.

I'd personally like to see more real world stuff integrated - agents for instance do not have as big a part in FM as they should. I remember in a previous version (07 maybe?) agents would send you videos of their clients to try and sell them to you.It was a cool feature, but they got rid of it. I think if a player becomes unsettled or annoyed at his current club that an agent should be going to relevant clubs and making them aware of the situation and suggesting what it would take to get their client (much as in real life I would imagine). There's a lot of incidents happening outside the training pitch as well now, though in fairness to SI I think they mentioned implementing things like this were impossible due to players potentially sueing them or something.

[Majiball]

I would like to see a bit more realisum in the signings made by non playing teams and also in manager movement. It does become a bit boring after 4-5 seasons once you've got the best kids and have developed them, in that you don't really get challenged by the AI overall. Fergie retires and some no-body replaces him, also the big clubs don't seem to chase the best players and sign players that they don't need IMO. When you sign say Fabregas for 120 million I would expect Wenger to go on a serious spree and yet he doesn't and replaces a worldie with a not so great player. The top teams in the premiership only get weaker as you get stronger and once you've got serious money in the bank after a few successful season and from selling those kids that don't quiet make the grade, your laughing.

I would love them to add in a difficulty level IE easy normal and hard, when you've played the game for so long the changes in between versions really aren't that big and you can quiet quickly get to the top in the new version.

The match engine is a very difficult thing to replicate and I think that SI do a good job with it. Replicating what footballers do IRL is one serious programing headache, this version is better in that aspect. I would like more control over set-piece's IE being able to design my own and specify runs as I feel this aspect is really under used, given their crucial role IRL.

On the scouting of players why don't you try playing with attributes hidden? It is more realistic, my only issue with it is that uncovering those attributes via your scouting system takes years and years. You just don't have enough scouts. I don't know if any on here figured out that in previous versions you could hire scouts as coaches and then offer them contracts as scouts which in the main they would accept. I never considered this cheating as the scouts you are allowed is SO LOW, compared to real-life. At one stage I believe I had almost 50-60 scouts all working the whole world and yet I couldn't get any higher than 80-83% despite having almost one per country. It would be so much better if the attributes were hidden and scouting was improved. Affliations with clubs should reap bigger scouting discovery's and you should also be able to hire more, many more. Plymouth for example employ 4 scouts part time just for the SW of england, I'm not allowed that at ROvers total.

Adding agents would be cool, making it far harder to maintain moral and building a good spirit at a club, thats one suggestion I'd love to see. ###### a player off and depnedent on his personality and who his agent is he either gets harked around or goes to the press, striker etc. I would also like to see the return of players being offered to clubs, but if that comes in I'd also like to be able to go to an agents and say I want a player with these attributes, got one??

[Commondore]

Speaking of improvements and the match engine;

I don't think I've ever seen anyone hit a volley on FM 2010, the match engine just doesn't seem to support such a feat.

Teams use the goalkeeper as an extra player way too much, imagine if Olsson had the ball at the halfway line and then hits a swerving 40 yard pass back to Robinson with two or more opposing players between them? Those situations figure quite a lot in FM 2010.

Those are of course only minor gripes, the match engine really improved the series and was an exciting new feature when it came.

[benhben]

When is the 2011 version of Football Manager due to be released?

[DeadlyDirk]

It's usually around October. I wouldn't expect this one to be any different.

[RoversSG]

One feature i would like to see is to have the manager's reputation influence his/ her ability to sign players. I know of many (myself included) who start the season signing every half decent freebie then selling them on in the Jan transfer window to generate income. I think if a manager does that in real life, no one would help to sign for him.

Also, if a manager keeps giving young players a chance, i think it should tilt a young player decision to sign for him or another similiar club like how wenger is a major factor when youngsters decide between arsenal or chelsea etc.

Next, like what some said here, i would like to have the ability to decide how many coaches, scouts i want to hire based on a total budget instead of the current numbers based system.

[Hughesy]

RoversSG - I think your manager experience (i.e. amateur, semi pro etc) comes into play when trying to sign the better players early on.

Youngsters should also consider how likely they are to play too...i.e. at Chelsea you are not likely to play as most of their players are just bought in each year. Nothing to do with the manager, just the buckets of cash they have. They should also consider your academy set up too, aswell as how good the coaches are that are developing them.

In my current 2010 game - I have 7 players on ave in my starting 11 that have all played for my U18's and reserves previously...cant quite class them as academy produce as I bought them in when they were 15 - 17.

[RoversSG]

Maybe the game can have more tweaks during the season. For example, I'm now into the Jan transfer window during season 2 and my Rovers is top of the table. Surely, in real life, I should be able to attract good players yet in the game, the quality of players willing to join me is still the same as the beginning of the season.

Also, at the begining of the same, the staff told me Rovers is one of the poorer passers, fewer players capaable of magic etc but i virtually rebuilt the entire squad by Jan with skillful attacking players yet the pre-match advice still tells me that teams like wigan, bolton are technically better than me! How is that possible when i have players like Jadson, Golaso (sp), Barzaite, fleck in my team?

[Billy Castell]

Is it nearly that time already? Goodness.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Has anyone heard any new news on features in the 2011 game? It's gone a bit quiet

[Mc Love]

Unofficial:

Although not officially announced yet, but we can confirm the following features and release date have been leaked.

- Release Date is Friday, October 29th 2010

- Improved training options

- More complex module for searching new players

- Improved graphics and 3D view of the game

- Introduction of football agents to the game

- Playing games in evenings (so called night effect)

- Differentiated weather conditions