[Archived] Facism- Alive And Well And Living In Israel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

How long is the Western World going to sit on it's hands whilst jewish facists destabilise the Middle East? Am I the only person who is totally disgusted by todays events ?

[tony gale's mic]

Absolutely disgusted.

The Israelis claim that those people on the ship had guns and came at them. Surely attacking a group of highly trained IDF soldiers would lack even the most basic common sense - but no, we should definitely believe the claims of governments who clone the passports of other countries...

[JAL]

How long is the Western World going to sit on it's hands whilst jewish facists destabilise the Middle East? Am I the only person who is totally disgusted by todays events ?

Thats what happens when you get too much sunshine.

Just raise a glass Tyrone on this bank holiday monday to our rain god 'pizzydownet' and keep cool.

[tashor]

110% agree with the first two posters...........

The sooner the hyperhookedproboscisly challenged Sons of Abraham are obliterated from the land of Palestine the better............

Hamas Principles

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

You can't say fairer than that can you ??

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Absolutely disgusted.

The Israelis claim that those people on the ship had guns and came at them. Surely attacking a group of highly trained IDF soldiers would lack even the most basic common sense - but no, we should definitely believe the claims of governments who clone the passports of other countries...

And who were willing to pass on atomic weapons to the previous white supremicist South African regime.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

110% agree with the first two posters...........

The sooner the hyperhookedproboscisly challenged Sons of Abraham are obliterated from the land of Palestine the better............

Hamas Principles

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

You can't say fairer than that can you ??

If you feel able to justify todays events you need to take a long , hard look at yourself and your convictions. If I were Jewish I would be mortally ashamed.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Lets get our own house in order first before passing judgement on others.

[tony gale's mic]

Lets get our own house in order first before passing judgement on others.

Would you have said the same in 1939?!

Not that I'm comparing Zionism to Nazism but the principle still stands.

And tashor, quite frankly, get to f**k. I don't really give a toss how this comes out but to imply that two people are anti-Semitic for decrying the killing of people on a ship trying to deliver aid to an area crippled by Israel's blockade deserves a full apology. Now I know there are many, many loonies on each side but tell me, did those quotes come from any of those who were murdered? No, I didn't think so.

To even debate this topic with you would probably need you to brush up on Middle Eastern Conflicts 101 but it's quite a complicated topic and I'm fairly sure you're about as intelligent as two short planks.

[koi]

I think people should at least be aware of the history especially the British role in creating the Jewish and Arab states. Wikipedia is hardly perfect but I think this gives a good grounding on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

[koi]

If you feel able to justify todays events you need to take a long , hard look at yourself and your convictions. If I were Jewish I would be mortally ashamed.

You can't justify the events but to be fair we have to be very careful how we judge others. Don't forget our past in the middle east leaves a lot to be desired and that's before we get to the Iraq invasion based on a complete fabrication of evidence. Our hand in the middle east is very very weak IMO.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

You can't justify the events but to be fair we have to be very careful how we judge others. Don't forget our past in the middle east leaves a lot to be desired and that's before we get to the Iraq invasion based on a complete fabrication of evidence. Our hand in the middle east is very very weak IMO.

It's never too late to start to put things right. Even William Hague aka The Speaking Clock sounded less than impressed with the Israelis tonight.

[Guest Kamy100]

Whatever the right's and wrong's of Isreal's action, what this does do is bring to the fore the suffering of the Palaestinian people, the 15 month blockade by Isreal has caused immeasureable suffering to the people living there.

[neekoy]

Amazing when Israel ###### up it is all won't somebody think of the children when Hamas do it they are justified due to the cruelty of blockades. I've got an idea, stop putting bombs around your waist and walking into crowded areas and blowing yourself up.

This is not justfied in any way but hey, nothing in war is.

[tony gale's mic]

Amazing when Israel ###### up it is all won't somebody think of the children when Hamas do it they are justified due to the cruelty of blockades. I've got an idea, stop putting bombs around your waist and walking into crowded areas and blowing yourself up.

This is not justfied in any way but hey, nothing in war is.

Most reasonable people who support the plight of the Palestinian people will tell you that no suicide bombing is ever, ever justified. The innocents who lose their lives on Israeli soil are every bit as innocent as those who lose their lives on Palestinian soil. However for every Israeli life lost from suicide bombs there are around 70 Palestinian lives lost from Israeli action.

One side has all the money, most of the territory, doesn't have its people forced into a tiny strip of land and generally has full international support from all the nations that matter. The other one doesn't.

[cletus]

Maybe if Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israeli communities, the Israelis wouldn`t feel the need to board their aid ships

I`m not supporting what the Israelis did or do, but if you live by the sword you shouldn`t complain when somebody with a bigger sword comes & mullers your arse!!

[Nafe_rovers]

To be honest though, Palestine or Hamas are the same... they adopt a no-coopertion talks with the Israel... it's a lose lose situation.

Whatever the right's and wrong's of Isreal's action, what this does do is bring to the fore the suffering of the Palaestinian people, the 15 month blockade by Isreal has caused immeasureable suffering to the people living there.

Yer but lets be real about this, you simply can't kill one person to every person that they kill. Israel are going to hurt or kill as many people as they can... It's a shame, but simply the reality of conflict.

[colin]

The flotilla was carrying medicine, building materials, food and other materialistic help to the Palastinians in the Gaza Strip.

No arms. No military. It was staffed by a bunch of hippies, despite what the Israeli government would tell you. How many Israeli soldiers have died v the number of people on the flotilla?

The only reason that the flotilla was there was because Israel has been bombing Gaza for years.

I'll take the side of the Israelis on the day that a group of trans-global volunteers get together to deliver help to them to stop the Palastians sending over a few rockets to Haifa.

Israel is a bullying, horrible, sadistic nation which needs to be reeled in by the rest of the civilised world.

When it stops murdering innocent Palastinians then it might just have a look at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and sort itself out.

[Eddie]

The problem with debates about Israel and Palestine is that the vast majority of people are highly opinionated and see the situation as being entirely black and white. Both sides are very regularly in the wrong, it's really as simple as that. To post statements like I've seen on here that there may be some justification in saying that Israel needs to be "obliterated" is ridiculous and it does nothing to help a situation in which you are dealing with an overly defensive military power. It is time that the United States removed its unconditional support for Israel, but it also requires that Palestine and Palestinian supporters accept that their own violence cannot continue.

[American]

The problem with debates about Israel and Palestine is that the vast majority of people are highly opinionated and see the situation as being entirely black and white. Both sides are very regularly in the wrong, it's really as simple as that. To post statements like I've seen on here that there may be some justification in saying that Israel needs to be "obliterated" is ridiculous and it does nothing to help a situation in which you are dealing with an overly defensive military power. It is time that the United States removed its unconditional support for Israel, but it also requires that Palestine and Palestinian supporters accept that their own violence cannot continue.

Like Israel is going to care what people post on a football supporters' message board?

Agree with the rest of the post, and with what is probably the sentiment behind the highlighted part, too.

[Eddie]

I'm not talking about people expressing that opinion on a football messageboard, I'm talking more about the fact that it's a message coming from Hamas, Hezbollah and other groups as well as a message that you do see made at rallies. That may not change Israeli policy, but it helps to only reinforce the defensive attitude that Israelis and Jews take around the world.

[broadsword]

The problem with debates about Israel and Palestine is that the vast majority of people are highly opinionated and see the situation as being entirely black and white. Both sides are very regularly in the wrong, it's really as simple as that.

Sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up is a mark of a desperate people.

I think Israel will only be happy once it has wiped Palestine off the map. That would probably kick off world war 3, but to hold the Palestinian people in a glorified prison camp shows utter contempt.

The US went into the middle east to shore up things for its good buddy Israel. I think I'm right in saying that teh country that's broken most UN resolutions is Israel ... so I honestly really can't see the political will coming to solve this from the international community.

It's grotesque to see this still going on. Israel needs to be put back in its box.

[thenodrog]

Sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up is a mark of a desperate people.

I think Israel will only be happy once it has wiped Palestine off the map. That would probably kick off world war 3, but to hold the Palestinian people in a glorified prison camp shows utter contempt.

The US went into the middle east to shore up things for its good buddy Israel. I think I'm right in saying that teh country that's broken most UN resolutions is Israel ... so I honestly really can't see the political will coming to solve this from the international community.

It's grotesque to see this still going on. Israel needs to be put back in its box.

Rubbish Bryan. There were no desperate people on 7/7/05 just braindead brainwashed ones!

As for Israel being put back in it's box! Have you forgotten Hitler's Germany did that to 6m of them and I don't think they are about to let it happen again without a fight.

Fact is the daft buggers on those boats knew they were playing with fire and were repeatedly warned to turn back. They wouldn't do so so they copped for it. It's not good by any means but surely they must know that silly random posturing will never influence the determination of Israel to defend itself?

Not only that but the Times on Friday ... before the incident carried a report about Syrian and Iranian involvement in arming Hezbollah to attack Israel. Here....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7138763.ece

3rd paragraph down "The military hardware is either of Syrian origin or sent from Iran by sea, via Mediterranean ports, or by air, via Damascus airport. The arms are stored at the Hezbollah depot and then trucked into Lebanon."

Small wonder that they came down so hard is it? If Israel shows an ounce of weakness they will be torn to pieces by their enemies.

[Eddie]

Hm, I can't accept a lot of what you have said there.

Firstly, the holocaust is a fall-back excuse for all Zionist and Israeli activity. There is no doubting how horrific what happened was, but it shouldn't be used as a serious defense anymore. What is also odd is that a nation and people who are so quick to use it as a defense seem to overlook the fact that there treatment of the Palestinians is beginning to resemble the ghettos that were seen in Nazi Germany. That isn't to say that they are doing anything near what happened during the holocaust nor am I drawing any serious comparisons between the state of Israel and Nazi Germany, nor is it saying that all of what they are doing is wrong, but you would have thought that a people who are so quick to invoke the spirits and memories of those victims would put in the most effort to prevent anything similar, to any group, from ever happening again.

Secondly, the "playing with fire" comment is worrying. Peaceful protests should be allowed. Could one take a cynical view and argue there may have been some involved who were hoping for this sort of reaction? Perhaps, but that doesn't justify the reaction itself.

[neekoy]

The fact is no one is entitled to the land in any historical context.

You have a political conflict that is waged between two peoples similar to that of the 20 or 30 going on all over the world right as I post this.

Israel has the upper hand with miltary strength, Palestine has longevity with population.

Also to add (Please don't use that word again) those who say suicide bombers are the last resrt for desperate peoples, they are funded by multi billionaires who for a measly contribution of 10% of their wealth could provide a better life for these individuals if they actually gave a (Please don't use that word again). Mind controlled political/religious pawns are no different then the mind controlled political/religious or IDF "baby killers".

Cannon fodder and no more.

[broadsword]

Rubbish Bryan. There were no desperate people on 7/7/05 just braindead brainwashed ones!

As for Israel being put back in it's box! Have you forgotten Hitler's Germany did that to 6m of them and I don't think they are about to let it happen again without a fight.

Fact is the daft buggers on those boats knew they were playing with fire and were repeatedly warned to turn back. They wouldn't do so so they copped for it. It's not good by any means but surely they must know that silly random posturing will never influence the determination of Israel to defend itself?

Not only that but the Times on Friday ... before the incident carried a report about Syrian and Iranian involvement in arming Hezbollah to attack Israel. Here....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7138763.ece

3rd paragraph down "The military hardware is either of Syrian origin or sent from Iran by sea, via Mediterranean ports, or by air, via Damascus airport. The arms are stored at the Hezbollah depot and then trucked into Lebanon."

Small wonder that they came down so hard is it? If Israel shows an ounce of weakness they will be torn to pieces by their enemies.

7/7 was the UK, not Israel. Israel definitely needs putting back in its box. I'm not sure what other way the Palestinians could strike back at Israel other than suicide bombing. I don't condone it, but I understand it.