Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[Tim Southampton Rover]

James: "It's very difficult for a side to break down 11 defenders."

yes, because all Algeria did was defend. Couldn't be because we're fecking dreadful, could it?

He probably meant it was very difficult for Algeria to break down 11 defenders

[Exiled_Rover]

Wrong players, wrong formation. Saw it coming a mile off.

[broadsword]

Team for the next game:

- James

- Johnson

- Terry

- Dawson

- A Cole

- Wright-Phillips

- Gerrard

- Barry

- Millner

- J Cole

- Crouch

[beerwins]

I want to be angry for the debacle I just witnessed but as a member of this board I am sure I will post and someone wil correct me as I watched it in a pub, please tell me we didnt play that bad, please tell me Joe Cole was included on this disgrace, please tell me Rooney scored but it was offside.

Someone please tell me that I have'nt just watched the worst game of the world cup with England being the culprit. Surely Capello will be added to a Simpsons episode only to be confronted by the cartoon guy who responds to him as worst manager ever.

I dont even want to contemplate squads or what could have been or would have been, we did'nt do enough and thats simple, you know what the worst thing was tonight is that I realised even if we do by some miracle qualify we are by no means good enough by a long shot.

A England fan with a half finished time machine

[RibbleValleyRover]

If Rooney isn't carrying an injury and is fully fit do you think the fact he is deemed untouchable and undroppable is contributing to his poor performances? If he had played like he has done in these last two games and also the World Cup warm ups for United i doubt Fergie would have kept him in the team and would have dropped him to give him a kick up the arse.

Would England be brave enough to do that?

[Tom]

Rooney must be dropped both for his shockingly lazy performances and his words at the end.

[beerwins]

If Rooney isn't carrying an injury and is fully fit do you think the fact he is deemed untouchable and undroppable is contributing to his poor performances? If he had played like he has done in these last two games and also the World Cup warm ups for United i doubt Fergie would have kept him in the team and would have dropped him to give him a kick up the arse.

Would England be brave enough to do that?

Well they ruined Greens career with a shock change to the keeper and now when James retires that area is going to have to be adressed. After Rooney's first game should he have started? Hell no !! he didnt do enough to warrant a first team place for the next match and all he does is warrant more defenders to mark him.

The papers will have a field day with this and I find it hard to defend the the team apart from the fact that I believ they tried but the tactics let them down.

[grizfoot]

I find it highly amazing that people seem to have so quickly turned on Capello, but I'm not suprised. Whether it's hidden disgust that England shouldn't have a foreign manager or some other reason I don't know but during qualification Capello was getting rave reviews for installing displine and authority to the England national team. Now all of a sudden after two draws at the World Cup, he's turned into a clueless manager playing the wrong players and the wrong formation.

I'd first like to say that Spain, touted by many people as one of the most talented squads in World Cup history lost thier first game against Switzerland. This someway goes to show that other "big nations" are having problems coming up against well drilled defensive units. That's what England had to come up against in Algeria who played a very clever system that made it very difficult for England to break down.

They were down as playing a 3-5-2 formation but I'd prefer to call it a 5-3-1-1 formation. Having three centrebacks enabled two centrebacks to mark Heskey and Rooney individually with a spare centreback asked to cover midfield runners and balls that the other two centrebacks couldn't deal with. The two wing-backs had the responsbility of stopping crosses coming in but England rarely attacked down the wings with Gerrard given the apparent freedom to drift inside at every opportunity. This further congested the middle of the field where Algeria had three central midfielders as well as one of the strikers dropping deep meaning there was four Algeria players across the midfield as well as five players along the back. This was the only thing that was slightly fascinating about tonight's game. It was the classic arguement that an effective 3-5-2 formation (and it's variations) can work really well against a traditional 4-4-2.

I think some credit has got to go to the Algerians though, I think they have been under-rated by numerous people and have some half-decent players. I would say Algeria getting a draw against England is on a similiar level to us drawing 0-0 against the Red Scum last season.

I say credit to the Algerians but England with the quality available should be able to a least create some meningful chances, but that did not happen. Never have I seem so many "top-quality" players mis-control and mis-place so many passes in one match. I could pick out most players and say they had a poor match but the most glaring poor performance was from Rooney, the player that was apparentley going to win us the World Cup. I think there was definitley something amist with Rooney, whether it's delusion with his team-mates/formation/manager I just don't know but I'd hazard a guess at that he's not fully fit. He didn't seem to have the same fitness levels we are use to seeing, he looked tired and unnaturally lazy in parts of the game tonight. I'm sure I witnessed him limping slightly on a couple of occassions also, wouldn't suprise me if he's still carrying that ankle injury he picked up in Muinch. Looks a pain-killer injections or other similiar treatment job whichhas been kept on the down low so to speak. If he's not 100% he shouldn't be playing, the Wayne Rooney we saw tonight is not the player who's had such a good season in the Premier League. His frustration over-boiled at full-time with the "Nice to see your own fans booing you, that's what loyal support is" comment at the end. If he's not fully fit he should be dropped for the next match in my opinion because if he continues playing this way he's only going to get further frustrated and probably sent off.

I'd play the following line-up against Slovenia:

James

Johnson, Dawson, Terry, A.Cole

Milner, Gerrard, Barry, J.Cole

Crouch, Defoe

This allows Gerrard to be back in his position where he can influence the game most. I'd also play Crouch and Defoe as they are a proven partnership and with J.Cole and Milner on the wings I feel they are capable of creating chances for the strikers.

Tonight, to me the players almost looked scared and nobody stepped up and said I'm going to win this game for England. Whether it's the pressure of expectations, nerves or media-driven I don't know. They are going to get a hammering in the media, some might say rightly so but Rooney had a point with his comment to the camera at the final whistle. Slate England all you want but what good is it going to do? come Wednesday I hope everybody is still fully behind the tea, I know I wil.

[broadsword]

I find it highly amazing that people seem to have so quickly turned on Capello, but I'm not suprised. Whether it's hidden disgust that England shouldn't have a foreign manager or some other reason I don't know

Not at all. With his track record, you have to trust him, but I have to ask over the last two games, what the hell is he doing?

[Roberto Policano]

That Johnson fella is a dreadful player.

I thought right backs were ment to be able to defend?.

Reckon he should convert to a right midfielder and forget about defence.

£18 million.oh dear!!!.

[modes98]

Team for the next game:

- James

- Johnson

- Terry

- Dawson

- A Cole

- Wright-Phillips

- Gerrard

- Barry

- Millner

- J Cole

- Crouch

and what is that team going to do?

I like the 4-5-1 approach, which is basically what that is but no SWP or Crouch please. Lampard and Rooney would be better.

I never understood the decision to leave englands best crosser, in adam johnson, behind. Even worse capello now insists on picking and subbing SWP and Lennon for each other. Both do exactly the same job! Run and can't cross! We need some quality in to the box for rooney/heskey/crouch/gerrard/lampard/whoever. There is no point trying to play through the centre of defensively sound teams, which they all are at this stage.

[Kei]

England were there for the taking. Algeria must be really annoyed with themselves now. They passed through England at will, looked better on the ball and if they had a notable striker would have buried us. To be honest, most of the rest of the teams in this World Cup are all technically better than England, you can see it it straight away. Watch England next week and you will see that it takes at least 2-3 touches for an England player to get the ball fully under control. Mexico, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, Serbia and watching them for the first time last night, Algeria, all take a touch and the ball is under control and moved on quickly. Joe Cole and Rooney are the only players in the squad that have that kind of skill. The former is not being picked for whatever reason and the latter is either not fit or really just does not want to be there.

We are a kick and run team. Strong, powerful and full of running, but these days it's just not enough. The rest of the World has left England miles behind and it will only change when English kids are taught from a young age to be calm on the ball instead of the "get rid of it" mentality where they end up learning to be scared of the ball rather than taking control of it.

Also Gerrard's comment of the game being "Algeria's cup final" is just unbelievable and to me just sums the whole England team up. Arrogant, completely over hyped and clueless about the opposition.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Also Gerrard's comment of the game being "Algeria's cup final" is just unbelievable and to me just sums the whole England team up. Arrogant, completely over hyped and clueless about the opposition.

Nail hit on head.

[Helmshore blue]

I think I would be tempted to line up like this for the next game...

James

Johnson Terry Dawson Cole

Lennon Lampard Barry J.Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

[neekoy]

I don't know why everyone is slating Capello, the guy is proven to be the one of the greatest managers of all time, the fact he can summon this crap from the best the english has is more concerning.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

I don't know why everyone is slating Capello, the guy is proven to be the one of the greatest managers of all time, the fact he can summon this crap from the best the english has is more concerning.

What!? Surely you cant mean the "Golden Generation"?

Just read that Wayne Rooney is "furious" at the England team being booed off the pitch and made a sarcastic comment about "loyal" support. The cheek of it, spending thousands, being let down yet again by that shower and showing your displeasure.

Who do they think they are?

[Rovermatt]

Rooney - usually more dull than settling dust - had this to say: "Nice to see your home fans booing you. That's what loyal support is. F**k sake."

Charming.

I have to say I've found new levels of respect for David Beckham. The guy is clearly a serious football man (in spite of his lifestyle) and he showed a shed-load of passion and heart from the bench last night. While his role in the squad is a strange, slightly ambiguous one, I think it speaks volumes about his commitment to, and love for, his country that he's spending his summer with the England team instead of sunning himself on a Californian beach, recovering from injury, playing with his kids and shagging his wife. Undoubtedly a future England manager.

[waggy]

told you all when he was appointed the italian gangster was crap.read in waggys book that the dirty itialian spat in phil parkses face,sooner he's gone and LARD@RSE is the manager the better

[Bobby G]

The comment about Beckham is very very valid. He has had a certain passion whenever he has played for England and for the past two seasons his sole goal in football was to make it for the WC. I think Capello knew this and he softened the blow of missing it. I also doubt it has had any sort of negative effect on the camp (him being there).

Rooney will regret what he said considering that the "loyal supporters" spent their hard earned money and traveled half-way around the world. This isnt a "home game". Every person must have spent at least a couple of grand on traveling and that is not little. He looks unhappy. Could he still be injured? Maybe. I havent seen him this poor ever.

Capello needs to bring on Carrick, as much as I dont rate him, cause at least he can pass the ball and hold onto it for 2 seconds, something none of this lot can do or want to do. Drop Heskey for Joe Cole, and play 4-3-3 with Rooney up top on his own. Id consider dropping Lampard for Carrick, allowing Carrick and Barry to play as a central midfield partnership and Gerrard a freer role, a formation similar to the Spanish team. The full backs are attacking enough so adding a second central midfielder would be compensated that way.

[cletus]

I`d have thought with it being such an important game Capello would`ve played Rooney

An effing national embarrassment last night the whole lot of em! I`m off to Greece later today & my freshly washed & ironed England top has gone back in the drawer. An absolute shower of #### the lot of em!!

Lots of singing in the Fernhurst during the game. It soon turned to "We`re #### & we know we are"....then the locals got bored & started singing anti-Bumley songs

[Gav]

Think I mentioned before that I won’t be able to handle the likes of Ferdinand, Ashley Cole and John Terry being national heroes should we actually win the world cup.

After last nights performance no chance of that thank goodness, enough said on the players performance already.

Rooney having a go at the fans for booing? Having travelled and spent thousands to watch that @#/??

He should be dropped, not only for his poor form but for slagging off the support, just goes to show even him, a work class lad from Liverpool, is now so far removed from the supports its not worth thinking about.

PATHETIC performance and Rooney you're a disgrace.

[Amo]

Think I mentioned before that I won’t be able to handle the likes of Ferdinand, Ashley Cole and John Terry being national heroes should we actually win the world cup.

Which is why it's much more enjoyable being a neutral. I'm sorry but I can't support the national side when they're spearheaded by a bunch of lying, cheating, overrated playboys. Our footballing nation is a one big joke, still clinging to a tournament we won 44 YEARS AGO, wheeling out the old stars of '66, who are so immensely proud of their achievement they cashed in their winner medals. After the McClaren debacle, England were humbled and quietly went about their business in the qualifiers. Then once we were on that plane, the hype and hysteria was rampant once again. The sooner this country accepts the current England generation aren't anywhere as good as everyone thinks they are, the better.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Last night's game was diabolical but the important thing to come out of it was Fabio admitting on TV that he needs to change formation and he needs to change a few players for the match against Slovenia to fit the new system.

What I'm about to say will probably be a bit crazy after yesterdays game and I'm not expecting many, if any, to agree with me but last nights game was extremely important to England because that awful performance could be the making of the England team in this tournament.

We will head into the Slovenia game under pressure with everyone against them. The fans, the media & all the other teams will think England are there to be beaten. I'm convinced this will pull the England team together, similar to how the Italians came together when everybody was against them. They will no longer be doing it for the fans at home, they'll be doing this for themselves. They will want to prove everybody wrong and their mentality will change for the better. When they beat Slovenia, their confidence will grow and grow.

So my predicition is England will win the World Cup.

Come on England!!!!!

[neekoy]

After watching both games now, Slovenia will put England to the sword.

[Eddie]

I don't know why everyone is slating Capello, the guy is proven to be the one of the greatest managers of all time, the fact he can summon this crap from the best the english has is more concerning.

Beause he got the squad selection all wrong, tactics wrong and formation wrong.