Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[philipl]

Slovenia sorted out Russia over two legs.

For England, this is MUST win because two more draws in this Group sees us on the banana boat home based on goals scored.

Let's be honest, there are four players in that England squad of 23 who are nowhere near good enough to be in the Rovers' starting XI. And that is just the start of England's problems!

Oh boy, has Rob Green cost England mightily if we don't beat Slovenia!

[accyrover]

In 1990 we had a dreadful start to the tournament and the senior players, I believe headed by Lineker, sat down with Sir Bobby and talked him into going with the sweeper system, which the whole team felt more comfortable with. The rest is history.

Gerrard, James, Lampard and Terry (who I class as the most 'senior' players in the squad) need to step up to the plate, bite the bullet, and convince Capello to change formation for the Slovenia game. Play players in their strongest positions. Capello needs to be man enough to accept the players views and change for the good of the team. 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 is the way to go.

And drop Shrek. He's looks injured and clearly doesnt have his heart in it.

I feel so jaded by yet another major championship England debacle.

Oh boy, has Rob Green cost England mightily if we don't beat Slovenia!

You cant just blame Green if England go out. The whole team needs shooting.

Accyrover

[Gav]

I'm sorry but I can't support the national side when they're spearheaded by a bunch of lying, cheating, overrated playboys.

Spot on

[jim mk2]

You cant just blame Green if England go out. The whole team needs shooting.

Accyrover

Contradicting yourself. First you blame Capello and then you say the team needs shooting.

As always in football, the buck stops with the manager. Capello has messed up badly and needs a major rethink for the Slovenia game. The main problem is Rooney. If he can find a semblance of his ManU form England could yet spark into life but he didn't look interested in the pre-World Cup friendlies and his poor form has continued into the tournament. Capello either has to change the formation to 4-5-1 to get the best out of Rooney or drop him.

[ABBEY]

6 million a year and he cant get passion in the team, plays a non fit shrek,heskey(world class he isnt class),the captain out of position,doesnt play joe cole and begs scholes and carragher to play. Looks like he's living on past glories to me and i could have picked a team to draw 0-0 for nothing and thus save the fa millions.

the nation are up for it but the players clearly arnt.

edit.... and as for the gobby fat scouser he showed what a chavved up scrote he is....THOSE FANS HAD EVERY RIGHT TO BOO IT WAS ###### POOR AND THEY HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ONLY TO BE LET DOWN DOWN BY UNCARING PASSIONLESS MILLIONARES WHO WANT TO GET KNOCKED OUT AND (Please don't use that word again) OFF TO A SUNBED FOR A MONTH!!!!

[Majiball]

Were England playing in green???

That was one awful performance, they need to re group sit down and figure out how the hell they are going to move forward. Tactical changes are needed and some creativity. And by that I do not mean Heskey doing step overs, lol.

433 451 suits the players and they need to go to Capello and say this way sucks, we need to change.

Anyway I've got a new world cup song for you:

The crosses of St George are lying all around me)

(Frank Lampard, the whole of England is with you)

(Oh it's saved (once), saved (twice), saved (and we're out))

It's time to leave

It's time to leave

It's time to leave

They're coming home

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

They're coming home

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

Lost it on penalties, again

So much for bloody Fabio

We played better with ten

Perhaps next time we're

Going to strive

Harder, going to thrive

Even going to dive

But now we're minging

Three lions in the dirt

Capello pathetic

Paycheck doesn't hurt

Unapologetic...

Telly's on: England's coming home

Though we won in Cologne

Our best chance had been blown

And now I see Crouch doing sod all

Cole taking a fall

Rooney starting to brawl

And Lennon..dreaming?

Front line so inert

Capello impassive

Never played the squirt

Though his paycheck's massive

Why'd they play so ######-poor?

Why'd they so rarely score?

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

They're coming home

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

They're coming home

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

They're coming home

They're coming home

They're leaving

England's coming home

Three lions in the dirt

Capello ain't grieving

Now he's free to flirt

Thank the lord he's leaving...

I hope it doesn't happen but, well you've all seen the same.

Oh and Mr Rooney, shut your gob. Thousands have paid out fortunes to support you and all the booing was at the end after your anonymous display. The fans did you proud yesterday as most countries would have been booing from about 30 minutes. Apology required, and a public one you spoilt brat.

[Mattyblue]

England were there for the taking. Algeria must be really annoyed with themselves now. They passed through England at will, looked better on the ball and if they had a notable striker would have buried us. To be honest, most of the rest of the teams in this World Cup are all technically better than England, you can see it it straight away. Watch England next week and you will see that it takes at least 2-3 touches for an England player to get the ball fully under control. Mexico, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, Serbia and watching them for the first time last night, Algeria, all take a touch and the ball is under control and moved on quickly. Joe Cole and Rooney are the only players in the squad that have that kind of skill. The former is not being picked for whatever reason and the latter is either not fit or really just does not want to be there.

We are a kick and run team. Strong, powerful and full of running, but these days it's just not enough. The rest of the World has left England miles behind and it will only change when English kids are taught from a young age to be calm on the ball instead of the "get rid of it" mentality where they end up learning to be scared of the ball rather than taking control of it.

absolutely.

I have been banging on about the English and British lack of technical ability to anyone that will listen for a decade.

Our youth football is all about building the team around 'big, strong lads' and ignoring the technical qualities you need at international level. It has to change.

[boris bear]

Apparently an England fan breached security and managed to get into the England dressing room after the game and gave them all a verbal dressing down.

Apparently Rob Green let him in.

[beerwins]

Apparently Rob Green let him in.

If thats a joke its a good un

[thenodrog]

Generally agree with what you're saying on this topic (certainly regarding Lampard's status and how Gerrard and Lampard should not be immune from bench time) but find it hard to agree with your interpretation of World Class.

As you've said in the past (again rightly), if there were 20 Sir Alex Fergusons in the Premiership three would still get relegated. If Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano and players of that ilk all existed at the same time they couldn't possibly all get into one X1. Does that mean some aren't actually world class in retrospect?

No that would be 'All time best ever team'. A theoretical world team picked now would obviously not include those examples.

Nice to see that you've rem the Alex Ferguson bit though Bellamy. I'm flattered.

[Bobby G]

I think its also a fact that this generation isnt as good as the media, the fans, and the players themselves think they are.

Honestly, if we want to talk world class, we can list Terry, Ashley Cole and Wayne Rooney, and possibly Gerrard although he may be past his best, as when was the last time you watched him play up to his ability? At least 2 years ago. Lampard is an average midfielder with limited passing ability (which is key for a player in midfield), but an excellent scoring record. Once his goals go dry people start questioning him. Iniesta had 1 goal the whole of last season for Barcelona, and plays in the same situation as Frank does, but his influence is far bigger than the goals. Xavi scored about 3-4 last season and the same applies. Some of the cracks in ability get covered up by goals in both him and Gerrard I think and its always been the case.

I seriously do blame the media too. They built this team up before the WC as they always do as the best ever England has had and they wrote it as if they will be bringing home the trophy. 2 games later, the squad is written off. You cant do that.

[Kelbo]

I listened to Capellos interview after the game and it was difficult to understand.

I wonder if he is able to motivate the players when they are unable to understand him?

Pearce is there but I dont rate him as a coach or a person after he wanted Walcott to play for Under 21s whilst with the first team squad, its about taking players forward not backwards!

Tell you what, Allardyce would have won the first two games had he been England manager, no question of that.

I do agree we must stop this fixation with big strong players, though Shaun Wright Phillips is not the answer and when you want goals, you put on your most prolific goalscorer, not put him on for 6 minutes at the end of the game.

Balance was all wrong, Gerrard is a central midfielder who can drive a game, Lampard cant.

Joe Cole left and Lennon right and I would play Crouch up top with Rooney behind him (unless they drop Rooney as his body language against Algeria showed me something is not quite right here)

An abysmal performance and we were lucky not to lose, there is something wrong with our coaching when so called third rate teams pass the ball and have a better first touch than us

'something sadly wrong. No passion, no flair, little or no skill and these prima donnas will return to their clubs and pick up their obscene wage packets when they get home!

[thenodrog]

Capello falling into the same trap Allardyce often does - trying to shoehorn players into his system rather than adapting the system to his players strengths. Remember 1990? We were hopeless until Sir Bobby changed the system to suit the players and used a sweeper - look how far we got then. Over to you Fabio ....

Very unfair comparison mark. Capello has the choice of the entire country, Allardyce only had the players that Ince left him with.

My word, followed up the best game of the world cup with the worst and one of the worst England performances I have ever seen. Totally clueless, slow, no creativity, really nothing good about it. Still in with a good chance of going through, but we don't deserve it. Heskey must be dropped, gerrard has to be played centrally, so many obvious things. I almost get the feeling that capello is simply too bloody minded to change anything though.

Hopefully a good performance against Slovenia....it can't get much worse

Thats odd eddie ..... you haven't mentioned the 'Worldie' that is Frank Lampard in your criticism. I can only assume that you just didn't realise that he was actually on the pitch.

[dulwich]

Obviously too late to start gambling now, but something needs to change, but I'd be very tempted to try 3 centre backs, with Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson bombing forward as wing backs.

I dare say if these two were Brazilian they'd hardly spend any time in their own half.

[Bobby G]

According to the Algerian Magazine Le Buteur the quote that wound the Algerian's up according to Rangers defender Bougherra was Rooney saying "We don't have to be at our best to beat Algeria ... we saw against Slovenia that they are the worst team in the group."

He said, "I think Rooney went a little overboard with his comment at the pre-match press conference. He had no respect for Algeria at all and I think that tonight I, and the whole team, gave him our response. We showed what we are really worh and proved to him that we're not as weak as he seemed to think. We showed that the defeat against Slovenia was an aberration, nothing more."

[thenodrog]

The World Cup win of 1966 was a magical event that brought the whole country together in a glorious celebration. England could and should have done better since then but apart from brief periods under Robson and Venables they have always been badly managed. England might of course confound everyone and go out and beat Slovenia 5-0 but it appears that Capello is just the latest in a long line of clueless managers since Sir Alf Ramsey lifted the cup 44 years ago.

The reason is that Sir Alf Ramsey was his own man, picked his own team and was in no one's pocket. The rest have been nothing but yes men to the FA, the press and media and the sponsors.

Simple.

One thing is certain in this World Cup, England will not win it!

Wow thats sticking your neck out! All credit to you for such a brave prediction Philip.

[bellamy11]

No that would be 'All time best ever team'. A theoretical world team picked now would obviously not include those examples.

Nice to see that you've rem the Alex Ferguson bit though Bellamy. I'm flattered.

Same principle though. If they're all from the same era you have to pick an X1. They couldn't all get in. Therefore would some of them not be "world class"?

[thenodrog]

Team for the next game:

- James

- Johnson

- Terry

- Dawson

- A Cole

- Wright-Phillips

- Gerrard

- Barry

- Millner

- J Cole

- Crouch

Not bad Bryan but if we are to play 4-4-2 then this would be my team from the squad that is there

James

Johnson, Dawson , Terry, Cole A.

Milner, Barry Cole J, Warnock,

Crouch, Defoe

1. Carraghers out through suspension so he has to be replaced. Dawson is poor technically but at least he is a defender.

2. Gerrard and Lampard MUST BE DROPPED. I said many times that that over rated pairing can not and will not ever be able to play in the same team and should have been fired off when Capello came in. They've seen SGE and Maclaren off yet the italian imbecile still perseveres with them. Why?

Milner has been in the form of his life this year. Barry is in front of Carrick imo for the holding role. Joe Cole is without doubt our most talented midfielder by some distance. Warnock.... we need a left footer and left sided player desperately. Playing Gerrard out of position just cos his name is Gerrard is madness.

3. Rooney out to a place on the bench. Disciplinary reasons and a lesson to all. Crouch has never let us down and Defoe does have some quality.

Subs Hart, Carrick, Lennon, Upson, Rooney. Thats enough. Don't even name any more subs just put em at the back of the stands with the England supporters..... oh and put Beckham and Stuart Pearce on a bloody plane home. Yesterdays men with nowt to offer.

There. Still a long way off a talented team but there should be much more effort and vim about them.

[BuckyRover]

I'm not too bothered what Rooney said. It wasn't good but he was obviously very annoyed (as were most people). I'm sure he will apologise at some point.

It's set up very well for Wednesday, return to the UK humiliated or win and ignite our world cup campaign.

Over to you guys....

[thenodrog]

I find it highly amazing that people seem to have so quickly turned on Capello, but I'm not suprised. Whether it's hidden disgust that England shouldn't have a foreign manager or some other reason I don't know but during qualification Capello was getting rave reviews for installing displine and authority to the England national team. Now all of a sudden after two draws at the World Cup, he's turned into a clueless manager playing the wrong players and the wrong formation.

Ahem....

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/22877-england/page__view__findpost__p__886572

[Jan]

OK

As someone who loathes England with a passion, let me give Mr Capello a few tips.

1 Lampard and Gerrard cannot play together in a team. End of. No adaptation of systems will ever make this less true.

2 Shrek was lucky last night that his tackle at the end didn't make the contact he intended. He's a loose cannon and WILL get sent off in the next game if things go wrong. I think both the US and Algeria have the measure of England, so didn't feel they needed to get him sent off. It would be my tactic every time. Ronaldo knew it last time, and did the right thing

3 Jermaine Johnson- REALLY??

4 When I looked over at the first substitution I was relieved that he was just replacing one short winger who can't cross with another. Neither Wright-Phillips nor Lennon are worth the fare over here.

5 Emile Heskey. Lumbering carthorse who traps a ball further than most people kick it.

6 Goalkeepers. Would give Scottish ones of the 80s a run for their money on rubbishness. All much of a muchness.

7 Who voted Ashley Cole man of the match? Should be ashamed of yourselves. The best player on the pitch by a head and shoulders was the Algerian number 2- and he's a Rnagers player so you can guess how much it hurts to say that.

8 Barry and Terry. Shameful dives in the first half. The referee saw through them. He had an excellent game, although he was a bit lenient on England tackles and language.

All in all, a beautiful match to watch, if you watched the Algerian passing. If they had a striker that could score, that game would have been out of sight. Their numbers 7, 15 and 2 were superb.

[thenodrog]

I think I would be tempted to line up like this for the next game...

James

Johnson Terry Dawson Cole

Lennon Lampard Barry J.Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

That team might have a chance lr526...... but only if Lampard and Gerrard get sent off early doors.

btw.... get yourself off to specsavers mate.

[thenodrog]

Same principle though. If they're all from the same era you have to pick an X1. They couldn't all get in. Therefore would some of them not be "world class"?

If they are not in the best X1 then obviously they are not good enough to be world class.

[thenodrog]

'Der Kaiser' slams England style

Germany legend Franz Beckenbauer has been scathing in his criticism of England's playing style after their opening game at the World Cup.

The former German captain, 64, said:

"What I saw of the English against the US had very little to do with football."

"It looked to me as if the English have gone backwards into the bad old days of kick and rush."

===

Think he has a point or is he just rubbing it in?

The best ever football comment that I ever heard came from Franz Beckenbaur during the last World Cup. He was referring to Germany's inept performance v the USA but would surely apply perfectly to our lot today....

"Only the dominance of Oliver Kahn, the impossibly Teutonic goalkeeper, had saved the Germans from elimination in their 1-0 quarterfinal win over a more deserving U.S. team. Afterward, Franz Beckenbauer, the grumpy German legend, muttered, " Kahn apart, you could take all of them, put them in a bag and hit them with a stick. Whoever got hit would deserve it."

Anybody disagree?

Goalscoring midfield players are worth their weight in gold and Lampard has scored 20 plus goals a season for years in the Premier League. He is the first name on Chelsea's team sheet under a succession of top-class managers and would be one of the first names on the team sheet in a PL representative XI. He would walk into every top European club side, including Barcelona's. At international level he is England's best midfield player and would be a candidate for a World XI. End of story.

End of story indeed.

[USABlue]

Oh boy, has Rob Green cost England mightily if we don't beat Slovenia!

That's totally unfair, Rob Green was no part of that disgraceful performance yesterday. I don't know what to say about that, Rooney's comments are out of order, questioning the fan's loyalty after they've shelled out their hard earned cash to watch a bunch of over paid fairies with no sense of national pride. Pillock. He's been the biggest failure and he did not even look to be trying last night. Today I am ashamed of my football team. Best player last night to me was Emile Heskey, saying something isn't it when Heskey is your best player. He never stopped trying. Well done to him the rest of em can kiss my big fat English Arse.

Anyway can anyone tell me where I can find out which ref is doing which games, particularly interested in Webbs games.