Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[Silencio]

Lampard and Gerrard have always been more like new-age Neil Redfearns than world class players to me. Score plenty of goals on a Saturday afternoon in the English league, but that's where it ends. Gerrard is 30 years old and still brainless. Lampard is just very limited at international level

We are not a good side, we bring our players up badly and tell them they are world class. Ashley Cole is, Rooney can be, the rest are not. They are decent league players.

What the fu%K do people still go on about Beckham for? All that last night was for the cameras, like it always has been. I'm surprised Capello puts up with it. If he wants to help England then why doesn't he get off the tv and get get on with coaching kids? That's where we need real help. Forget winning tournaments and the big-name managers for the next 10 years and concentrate on making players who can control and pass the ball in two touches...

[LeChuck]

Milner and Joe Cole have to start against Slovenia, it doesn't really matter where. Barry was decent enough in the holding role so should keep his place, I don't really give a crap about who fills the other places.

[Helmshore blue]

That team might have a chance lr526...... but only if Lampard and Gerrard get sent off early doors.

btw.... get yourself off to specsavers mate.

Specsavers? Do you care to elaborate?

i dont see how england can play without Gerrard and Lampard in the team. They are both world class. I know they cant play in the middle together, but Gerrard just off Rooney would be great in my opinion. They linked up well yesterday, and between created most of england chances

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Upson in for Carragher. Defence otherwise unchanged. Midfield/up front

------------Barry

Lennon----------J. Cole

------Lampard Gerrard

------------Rooney

Cant beat slovenia - FA should reimburse all England's official allocation's match tickets.

[ABBEY]

OK

As someone who loathes England with a passion, let me give Mr Capello a few tips.

1 Lampard and Gerrard cannot play together in a team. End of. No adaptation of systems will ever make this less true.

2 Shrek was lucky last night that his tackle at the end didn't make the contact he intended. He's a loose cannon and WILL get sent off in the next game if things go wrong. I think both the US and Algeria have the measure of England, so didn't feel they needed to get him sent off. It would be my tactic every time. Ronaldo knew it last time, and did the right thing

3 Jermaine Johnson- REALLY??

4 When I looked over at the first substitution I was relieved that he was just replacing one short winger who can't cross with another. Neither Wright-Phillips nor Lennon are worth the fare over here.

5 Emile Heskey. Lumbering carthorse who traps a ball further than most people kick it.

6 Goalkeepers. Would give Scottish ones of the 80s a run for their money on rubbishness. All much of a muchness.

7 Who voted Ashley Cole man of the match? Should be ashamed of yourselves. The best player on the pitch by a head and shoulders was the Algerian number 2- and he's a Rnagers player so you can guess how much it hurts to say that.

8 Barry and Terry. Shameful dives in the first half. The referee saw through them. He had an excellent game, although he was a bit lenient on England tackles and language.

All in all, a beautiful match to watch, if you watched the Algerian passing. If they had a striker that could score, that game would have been out of sight. Their numbers 7, 15 and 2 were superb.

And who the eff are Scotland playing? Do remind again

[sambo]

Jan, what are you on about Jermaine Johnson? Sure you don't mean Glen?

Pathetic, Rooney should shut the **** up and perform for his country.

Fuming.

[Amo]

Anyone hear Jermaine Defoe insist that England are a "great side"? Pretty much sums up the prevailing problem with the England mentality. They believe they're world-beaters when they've achieved diddly squat and constantly quash expectation.

[OJRovers]

Cappello has lost it.

Heskey can't even get in the Villa team.

To leave J.Cole on the bench was unbelievable.

Bringing SWP on even brought about groans from the Man City-supporting pub I was watching in.

Lampard should be dropped he does nothing.

Defoe to start, the only one who looks lively and is capable of scoring.

Credit to James, did well last night.

[LeChuck]

-------------------- James

Johnson Carragher Terry A. Cole

--------- Lampard ----- Barry

-- Milner ------ Gerrard ---- J. Cole

------------------- Rooney

That's what I'd go with. We had no options out wide last night which meant there was no-one to pass to, hopefully Cole and Milner would sort that.

We need to try and get Rooney playing otherwise we stand no chance (if we do at all), so we HAVE to play him in the position where he showed world class form all season. It's the only chance we have of getting him to recreate that form, he doesn't need a big lump to play off at Man Utd so why does Capello obsess over doing it for England?

[USABlue]

Perhaps some one can share their opinions on this. Something I noticed last night, it first struck me at half time as the players were coming out. Our players seemed to be not talking to each other, even on the pitch I saw very little in the way of vocal interaction, isn't a captain supposed to communicate to his players. We seemed to be 11 individuals not at all interested in talking to each other, did anyone else notice the lack of communicating to each other.

Also let's say Cappello has lost the plot or is having some crazy notions, isn't someone supposed to speak up, Pierce, the ccaptain or any of the assistant coaches, make suggestions, point out where things could be done differently, aren't they or does Cappello just refuse to listen. When this fella, Cappello goes tits up, please please please an English Manager next time, just be sure not to pick a Manager that the WHOLE rest of the country know would be an abject failure a la the brolly. At least with an English manager we have something from the heart. I'm really ###### off today, more than last night I can deal with going out trying. if we've left it all out on the pitch but not like this, not the three lions going out like three pussies. What has Cole done to Cappello, does he have too much flair and individualism, cos I thought both games, particularly the USA game, were crying out for him.

[beerwins]

It's so ironic that every other team is using a variation of 4.5.1 and we are sticking with 4.4.2 even though the players we have are suited to a 4.5.1.

The reason so many teams are using this because it helps the team play close and accurate passing and retain posession in the middle of the park because playing long balls and kick and run is impossible with the speed of the ball, if Capello or his coaching staff have'nt noticed this yet and we go into the next match playing 4.4.2 again then we may as well be managed by a set of baboons.

As for the players, you could replace the whole team for me because regardless of what tactics, gameplan or teamtalk they are still out there representing their country and if that isnt incentive enough they dont deserve to be there, I thought Capello had already addressed this problem but it seems to be back again.

Also if Rooney doesnt get disciplined for the outburst to the camera then we have really bad problem in the camp and it really sends out the wrong message, you could drop him based alone on his performances he really didnt need to give us anymore reason.

[Guest Kamy100]

Maybe I am a fool for believing, I think that England hit rock bottom last night and the only was is up from here. Hopefully Fabio will change things round and we can go from there, have to remember that when France and Italy won the world cup they struggled during the early stages.

[BuckyRover]

Viera said it last night. France drew their first two games in 2006 and won their third match (can't remember who against) without Zidane who was banned. All is not lost, yet.

[RoyRover]

Anyone hear Jermaine Defoe insist that England are a "great side"? Pretty much sums up the prevailing problem with the England mentality. They believe they're world-beaters when they've achieved diddly squat and constantly quash expectation.

I heard that one myself and my jaw nearly hit the floor. The word great connotes greatness. Even though we shouldn't take what a bit part international player says as gospel, it underlines the systematic problem that runs through the England team. Even though England haven't been as arrogantly presumptious as they have been in the past during major tournaments, there is a sense of entitlement that many of the England players have due to the lives of superstar sportsmen that they lead. In The Guardian's World Cup Guide book, Richard Williams writes how at the last World Cup, Sven-Goran Eriksson and Frank Lampard voiced the serious belief that England 'deserved' to win the World Cup. Even after their dreadful showing at the tournament, players and manager alike still held this opinion. And this is where I think it starts to go wrong for England. There is a vision of England that players, pundits and some fans have; one where they are one of the world's elite teams, play flowing football and are consistently favourites for major tournaments.

However the reality is the exact opposite. Whenever the competition begins and England aren't crushing teams like this mythical England are supposed to, it shocks both the players and fans and they aren't sure how to react. They are almost surprised that the likes of Algeria are fit, know the rules, know how to play and maybe most importantly are all professional footballers. These player are NOT of the same quality of Englands, but after last nights game, you get the impression that even players from teams like this have a better grasp of some of the fundamentals of the game, like having a good first touch, good passing, ball retention and good movement.

Even without being one of the world's best you would have said (myself included), that England should be able to beat Algeria. They should also be able to beat Slovenia. When Rooney says that England should be beating Algeria without playing at their best it just gives the impression of a group of players who are used to winning with their clubs and expect the same thing to happen at international level. You hear many of the pundits on the BBC or ITV being so smug about England and dismissive of the other teams chances that it beggars belief. Roy Hodgson's - usually an intelligent and reasonable man - declaration yesterday that "England are so much the best team in this group that really we shouldn't even be bothering ourselves with what the other teams are doing" really sums up this whole attitude. You have to ask yourself how long these sorts of attitudes can continue to prevail and what can be done to get rid of them.

[joey_big_nose]

-------------------- James

Johnson Carragher Terry A. Cole

--------- Lampard ----- Barry

-- Milner ------ Gerrard ---- J. Cole

------------------- Rooney

That's what I'd go with. We had no options out wide last night which meant there was no-one to pass to, hopefully Cole and Milner would sort that.

We need to try and get Rooney playing otherwise we stand no chance (if we do at all), so we HAVE to play him in the position where he showed world class form all season. It's the only chance we have of getting him to recreate that form, he doesn't need a big lump to play off at Man Utd so why does Capello obsess over doing it for England?

I agree. I am a bit bemused. The 4231 got us qualified. Why are we playing an ineffective 442?

England are an average team, but we can take some heart that everyone seems to be struggling - apart from Argentina - despite having more talent and better balanced squads.

[joey_big_nose]

That Johnson fella is a dreadful player.

I thought right backs were ment to be able to defend?.

Reckon he should convert to a right midfielder and forget about defence.

£18 million.oh dear!!!.

Really? I think Johnsons has been quite good.

[67splitscreen]

-------------------- James

Johnson Carragher Terry A. Cole

--------- Lampard ----- Barry

-- Milner ------ Gerrard ---- J. Cole

------------------- Rooney

That's what I'd go with. We had no options out wide last night which meant there was no-one to pass to, hopefully Cole and Milner would sort that.

We need to try and get Rooney playing otherwise we stand no chance (if we do at all), so we HAVE to play him in the position where he showed world class form all season. It's the only chance we have of getting him to recreate that form, he doesn't need a big lump to play off at Man Utd so why does Capello obsess over doing it for England?

My selection too, Slovenia are quite physical, Milner and Cole have more about them to deal with that side of the game.

Cole will create far more than Heskey and SWP put together.

[Steve Moss]

I'm not too bothered what Rooney said. It wasn't good but he was obviously very annoyed (as were most people). I'm sure he will apologise at some point.

It's set up very well for Wednesday, return to the UK humiliated or win and ignite our world cup campaign.

Rooney will eventually apologize. But not because he'll believe the words he'll be mouthing but because the moneymen and the handlers will write the words for him, pat him on the head and tell him that he's both precious and he's being noble in placating the rioting peasants.

England's fall was predicatable. They aren't out there playing with passion for their country (as Beckham would have been), they're on the pitch because their ego's demand it though they're too lazy to work (it's the break from the PL season after all, they should be on the beach).

With that said, both England and the USA should still be promoted from this group. Both teams still control their destiny. If each win, we're on our way. Though I will concede that I fancy the USA's chances of promotion more so than England's.

On the subject of the USA, I'm pretty proud of most of the squad's performances though I have reservations about others. Two draws is nothing to sneeze at and has kept the squad alive, especially as one draw was against the mighty (in theory) England and the other should have been a win but for a dodgy ref.

My predictions: USA 3 - 1 Algiera, England 3 - 2 Slovenia, with USA to win the group and England as runner up. A complete reversal of how I thought things would work out for the top two a week or two ago.

[American]

I'm finding it awfully funny that some of the same people screaming at Sam for not playing 4-4-2 are screaming at Fabio for playing it...

And before you say it is about the formation best for the players, we didn't have the forwards for a 4-4-2.

[Bobby G]

I'm finding it awfully funny that some of the same people screaming at Sam for not playing 4-4-2 are screaming at Fabio for playing it...

And before you say it is about the formation best for the players, we didn't have the forwards for a 4-4-2.

The grass is always greener on the other side, American...

[Silencio]

Rooney will eventually apologize. But not because he'll believe the words he'll be mouthing but because the moneymen and the handlers will write the words for him, pat him on the head and tell him that he's both precious and he's being noble in placating the rioting peasants.

England's fall was predicatable. They aren't out there playing with passion for their country (as Beckham would have been), they're on the pitch because their ego's demand it though they're too lazy to work (it's the break from the PL season after all, they should be on the beach).

With that said, both England and the USA should still be promoted from this group. Both teams still control their destiny. If each win, we're on our way. Though I will concede that I fancy the USA's chances of promotion more so than England's.

On the subject of the USA, I'm pretty proud of most of the squad's performances though I have reservations about others. Two draws is nothing to sneeze at and has kept the squad alive, especially as one draw was against the mighty (in theory) England and the other should have been a win but for a dodgy ref.

My predictions: USA 3 - 1 Algiera, England 3 - 2 Slovenia, with USA to win the group and England as runner up. A complete reversal of how I thought things would work out for the top two a week or two ago.

I think we could still get through, Capello's experience suggests he can pull them together, I just don't think we need to be paying someone of his standing and wages to take us to the 2nd or 3rd round (where we belong). Forget about winning World Cups. We have a first-rate league but the English players are 2nd rate. Put the money into youth development and lets be more realistic about what this crop are capable of. We have been average for years, arguably 20 years.

The whole of English football needs sorting out. Is it from the bottom up or the head down. Either way, it's a ###### embarrasment (dressed as a wad of cash)...

[bellamy11]

I'm finding it awfully funny that some of the same people screaming at Sam for not playing 4-4-2 are screaming at Fabio for playing it...

And before you say it is about the formation best for the players, we didn't have the forwards for a 4-4-2.

Really glad I'm not the only one who noticed that, American!

[thenodrog]

I'm finding it awfully funny that some of the same people screaming at Sam for not playing 4-4-2 are screaming at Fabio for playing it...

And before you say it is about the formation best for the players, we didn't have the forwards for a 4-4-2.

I've thought that American. Ironic isn't it. Point being that most people want Crouch in and imo he functions better in a 4-4-2.

I think we could still get through, Capello's experience suggests he can pull them together, I just don't think we need to be paying someone of his standing and wages to take us to the 2nd or 3rd round (where we belong). Forget about winning World Cups. We have a first-rate league but the English players are 2nd rate. Put the money into youth development and lets be more realistic about what this crop are capable of. We have been average for years, arguably 20 years.

The whole of English football needs sorting out. Is it from the bottom up or the head down. Either way, it's a ###### embarrasment (dressed as a wad of cash)...

We blew a fortune on giving SGE a stupidly long contract. Anyone know how much will we have to pay Capello to get rid of him in a week or two?

[Amo]

Anyone know how much will we have to pay Capello to get rid of him in a week or two?

[Silencio]

I've thought that American. Ironic isn't it. Point being that most people want Crouch in and imo he functions better in a 4-4-2.

We blew a fortune on giving SGE a stupidly long contract. Anyone know how much will we have to pay Capello to get rid of him in a week or two?

I'm not for necessarily for sacking him. I just don't know why we appointed him in the first place. The players he has available are not good enough to win a WC and, bearing that in mind, why are we paying someone more than World Cup-winning wages to coach an incapable squad?

Getting some real football people in at the FA and sorting out the youth structures should be the priority for the next ten years... Forget the "golden generation". I'd be happy if we sacked all the celebrity Beckham/Roy of the Rovers/Three Lions/Stevie G/Lamps mania off, as long as I thought that the group who were coming through in 10 years could pass and move in 2 or 3 touches...

We are a last 16 team at best, thats been the case for years...

Some people ###### over Beckham's "passion", but I think he epitomises all that is wrong with our football (and our fans)... We might as well have John Travolta on the bench, the acting might be better, at least...