Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[RoyRover]

I was reading Paul Merson's comments about the England game last night, where he rightly declared how bad they were. Then at the end of a long rant about how poor they were, he actually suggested that if England beat Slovenia and qualify from the group, they will have an easy run to the semi-final! Unreal. I really hope that he is joking, but it wasn't obvious.

[JAL]

Englands past two performances have been pretty much standard for England, just cant see what the uproar is about, about a bunch of overhyped footballers with expectations way, way, way, beyond what they are ever capable of achieving.

Blaming the current England manager, now when have we heard this one before ?

When does the penny eventually drop ?

Our domestic league has hired vast amounts of foreign footballers along with a foreign coach to win our domestic league and cup FFS.

[DE.]

We are a last 16 team at best, thats been the case for years...

Hmm, I'd say that's a little harsh. Based on the 2002 and 2006 world cups we'd surely be a quarter-final team at best. solely considering the past couple of years however, you could be right. Couldn't even qualify for Euro 2008 and are struggling in one of the easiest groups in the tournament.

If we'd just been unlucky I think people would be a lot more forgiving, the fact is we've just been turgid, and that's the upsetting part. This is supposedly the best England has to offer, each a player earning an obscene wage for the job they perform, thus we should expect a level of excellence from them. Sadly, we've seen none of that and worse still the players were so lethargic in the last match that it appears the England team's only previous saving grace - genuinely making an effort - is deserting them.

I actually think we'll beat Slovenia and qualify, but I am not confident at all about progressing any further than the 2nd round should we scrape out of this group.

[philipl]

If we beat Slovenia which on current form is unlikely, there is a stinker waiting for us from Group D regardless of who comes first and second in that Group.

[tcj_jones]

Capello was right to play 4-4-2. As over-rated as England are, the USA and Algeria are teams we should be looking to beat comfortably. That the players have, for the most part, played average to poor, is not his fault.

However, his choice of substitutions has been poor and he shouldn't be playing Gerrard on the left. Now that the 4-4-2 clearly isn't working, he also needs to go to a 4-5-1. To not change the formation would be sheer stubbornness.

[philipl]

Just went back to the England squad and realised how woefully poor it is.

Lennon, Crouch, Joe Cole, Wright-Philips, Carragher, Heskey, Carrick and Hart don't necessarily get a game if their Premier League clubs are at full strength.

Green, Upson and James are stalwarts of defences that ended the season in 17th and 20th places.

Unhesitatingly, I'd say Green, James, Carragher and Wright-Philips would not make the Rovers' starting line-ups if they were at our club. When in the very recent past it looked like Lennon and Heskey were surplus to requirements at their clubs, there were plenty of voices on this MB saying "no way should Rovers sign them".

This is not about foreigners squeezing English players out. This is about a nation of 55m unable to produce 23 high quality footballers who can all hold down one of 220 places in the nation's top league on a regular basis. That is without considering that no English-born footballers have been deemed a worthwhile investment for any top club outside England for very many years apart from circus Beckham in LA.

[Gav]

Capello was right to play 4-4-2. As over-rated as England are, the USA and Algeria are teams we should be looking to beat comfortably. That the players have, for the most part, played average to poor, is not his fault.

Exactly.

Stories in the press this morning of player unrest due to Capellos management style, didn’t seem to be a problem in the qualifiers?

Capello is one the best managers in a generation, his methods have brought him and his teams unprecedented success,

SO WHY THE HELL DON’T OVER PAID SET OF PRIMADONNAS NOT GET IT?

The reason I can’t stand the current national side, full of babies who think they're above everyone and everything

[JAL]

Just went back to the England squad and realised how woefully poor it is.

Lennon, Crouch, Joe Cole, Wright-Philips, Carragher, Heskey, Carrick and Hart don't necessarily get a game if their Premier League clubs are at full strength.

Green, Upson and James are stalwarts of defences that ended the season in 17th and 20th places.

Unhesitatingly, I'd say Green, James, Carragher and Wright-Philips would not make the Rovers' starting line-ups if they were at our club. When in the very recent past it looked like Lennon and Heskey were surplus to requirements at their clubs, there were plenty of voices on this MB saying "no way should Rovers sign them".

This is not about foreigners squeezing English players out. This is about a nation of 55m unable to produce 23 high quality footballers who can all hold down one of 220 places in the nation's top league on a regular basis. That is without considering that no English-born footballers have been deemed a worthwhile investment for any top club outside England for very many years apart from circus Beckham in LA.

The penny's dropped, well done sir!

Though just cant believe you didnt see it in the beginning.

[RoyRover]

Exactly.

Stories in the press this morning of player unrest due to Capellos management style, didn’t seem to be a problem in the qualifiers?

Capello is one the best managers in a generation, his methods have brought him and his teams unprecedented success.

It could be because they haven't spent so much time under his strict regime when they have been playing in the qualifiers. They been together for around a month now and maybe his way of doing things is starting to rub some of the players up the wrong way. There is no doubting Capello as a manager. The success he has achieved can barely be matched. But managing an international side, especially one at a World Cup is a totally different ball game.

[1864roverite]

It might just be me.

Before the world cup began I was ever so optimistic and was really looking forwards to the 4 week footie-fest.

The first England game has killed my joy for the world cup in general. Fortunatley for me I had to work right through the Algeria game so I didnt suffer like those who endured that game. I have only read and listened to others to know the game was awful at best.

I have had absolutely no interest in the rest of the games since the USA match and for me that is very unusual as I love football and normally will watch anything if its on tv.

Wednesday's game for me no longer matters. I dont intend fisnishing work early as previously planned to go the pub, spend the best part of £20 on ale only to be let down by a set of overpaid, overhyped prima donnas. This current England set up is epidemic of todays overpaid "superstar" footballers and therein lies our problem.

With this lot, there is NO PRIDE in wearing our shirt. Its a personal thing for some of them rather than a team game.

I am simply underwhelmed by this tournament in general.

[philipl]

The penny's dropped, well done sir!

Though just cant believe you didnt see it in the beginning.

I did post a Spurs (misspelt Sours) reserve had replaced a Villa reserve for England during the USA game but that makes me sound like the 'drog quoting myself!

[LeChuck]

Capello was right to play 4-4-2. As over-rated as England are, the USA and Algeria are teams we should be looking to beat comfortably.

I can't agree with that really. 4-4-2 doesn't mean a more attacking line-up, it just means you have a more restricted midfield. Also, a 4-5-1 puts Rooney in a formation that's different to the one he's been world class in all season. We have no passing options because our midfield is so rigid, we need a 4-5-1 so that we can get movement and support from midfield.

Johnson, Carragher, Terry, Cole, Barry, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney are all used to playing in some form of 4-5-1 with their club sides. Actually it would have been easier to say the starting players who aren't used to it - Lennon and Heskey.

A 4-5-1 would free up Lampard and Gerrard to attack, instead of these restricted roles we see them play. Plus, like I said earlier, Rooney gets to play in the position he scored nearly 40 goals in last season.

[tonygreenbank]

What really scares me about our squad is that its the best on offer from the English players in the Premier League. Who left behind by Cappello is better than what we`ve got out there? Possibly Walcott but there isnt a deep pool of talent.

Its like Groundhog Day watching England in a major tournament. Leave with high expectations, wonderful support and poor performances.The common theme possibly is the intensity of the English league season which seems to leave players physically and mentally drained.

There is talk today of Terry orchestrating a crisis meeting with Cappello with player power taking over demanding a change in tactics! Heskey, Lennon and Lampard look most at risk to me. If we dont change then we are coming home.The backlash if that happens will be immense.

[Silencio]

Noticed Terry took it upon himself to do a press conference where called for Joe Cole to be put in the team. He also said "If he (Capello) doesn't like it (the players having a meeting), so be it". He also talked about how the players were bored (they can't play Wii). We also have Defoe saying we are a "great team", David James openly stirring the ###### and Beckham giving it the Tom Cruise act on the bench every game.

The one serial winner in the England camp is Capello. He did it as a player and a manager, but is it any wonder he can't get this bunch to do the business?

[steven]

If anyone needs tickets for the England v Slovenia game please let me know. I am not going to be able to make it as my wife is heavily pregnant. I've got two cat 1 tickets in hand and will pass onto a good home for face value if there is anyone struggling to get their own tickets.

[JAL]

Noticed Terry took it upon himself to do a press conference . He also talked about how the players were bored (they can't play Wii).

You'd have thought that they'd have arranged plenty of in house games (board, cards, computer, a.n.other) to get them competing against one another on a different level thats away from football, surely.

[Gav]

It could be because they haven't spent so much time under his strict regime when they have been playing in the qualifiers. They been together for around a month now and maybe his way of doing things is starting to rub some of the players up the wrong way. There is no doubting Capello as a manager. The success he has achieved can barely be matched. But managing an international side, especially one at a World Cup is a totally different ball game.

These players are highly paid professionals.

For this reason alone, they should adapt to different situations, millions of people around the world would swap place with any of them tomorrow.

Do you think soldiers in Afghanistan enjoy being holed up in barracks for months on end? They are professionals and get on with the job and don’t look for scapegoats.

The manager isn’t to blame here, the players are.

The current crop just don’t care enough, simple as that. To much money, not enough pride and passion to wear the shirt, typical modern day footballers.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

No matter whether they're profressionals or not, they're still humans and would react the same as any of us being stuck in the same place for a long time especially when they're in an amazing country with so much to do.

Although I don't agree that you can compare footballers with soldiers because they are totally different jobs, I can tell you that even members of the armed forces can be very bored for weeks/months on end with nothing to do too but train without knowing when something will happen.

Are the team allowed to go on day visits to schools to meet the locals, museums, the beach etc?

[67splitscreen]

No matter whether they're profressionals or not, they're still humans and would react the same as any of us being stuck in the same place for a long time especially when they're in an amazing country with so much to do.

Although I don't agree that you can compare footballers with soldiers because they are totally different jobs, I can tell you that even members of the armed forces can be very bored for weeks/months on end with nothing to do too but train without knowing when something will happen.

Are the team allowed to go on day visits to schools to meet the locals, museums, the beach etc?

A safari and at least one round of golf as I know of.

Bored my ass, they don't know what boredom is.

As for site seeing, it's not like it is a once in a life time trip, for these overpaid celebs.

[RoyRover]

What really scares me about our squad is that its the best on offer from the English players in the Premier League. Who left behind by Cappello is better than what we`ve got out there? Possibly Walcott but there isnt a deep pool of talent.

I was reading The Observer today and Trevor Brooking was saying more or less the same thing, as was Paul Hayward. They were making the point that there was no real outstanding talent from the youth ranks that would be making a push into the senior set up to the extent of making them any better. That's why they are so relient on the golden generation to succeed, because they don't see anyone else making the side significantly better. Jack Rodwell and our very own Phil Jones were mentioned as players that would be most likely to make any impact on the team which was pleasing to read! I would also have thrown Jack Wilshere's name into the list.

These players are highly paid professionals.

For this reason alone, they should adapt to different situations, millions of people around the world would swap place with any of them tomorrow.

Do you think soldiers in Afghanistan enjoy being holed up in barracks for months on end? They are professionals and get on with the job and don’t look for scapegoats.

The manager isn’t to blame here, the players are.

The current crop just don’t care enough, simple as that. To much money, not enough pride and passion to wear the shirt, typical modern day footballers.

I'm not saying it right, just how it could be. Even though they are professionals, they are a group of highly paid men, who when away from the training ground of their clubs, do more or less what they want and pay lots of money to keep themselves entertained. When there is someone telling them that they must be back in the hotel by six, in bed at 10 and that the form of entertainment is table tennis and snap, then I doubt they'd be all to receptive. You and I would be, but maybe not some of these guys. Just a suggestion anyway.

[jim mk2]

The manager isn't to blame here, the players are.

You know jolly well that in football, the buck stops with the manager. Money, pride, passion etc are irrelevant, if the players don't believe in the boss they won't play for him.

[jodrell]

What next at the World cup

Capello 'to quit if England fail to reach last 16'

[Mr. E]

What next at the World cup

Capello 'to quit if England fail to reach last 16'

Forget quitting, he should be pelted with rotten fruit if England fail to beat Slovenia. Along with Domenech and Lippi.

[John]

Big Sam's view: THESE England players are unrecognisable from the ones I see in the Premier League every week. The fear factor engulfing them is destroying our World Cup chances.

"This is about fear. You have to be mentally strong and capable of dealing with pressure and at the moment these players are not. Fabio and his staff must take responsibility now. They have to get into the players' minds and produce a winning team. Sure, there have been a few injuries, but Fabio can't blame the ball, he can't blame the heat, he can't blame the altitude. He can't blame anything - the buck stops with him."

[Gav]

You know jolly well that in football, the buck stops with the manager. Money, pride, passion etc are irrelevant, if the players don't believe in the boss they won't play for him.

The hacks told us “they believed in the boos” before they arrived in SA.....you, and they, can’t have it both ways.