Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[LeChuck]

Rooney needs to be benched.

Bit harsh, we should try him in the position he's been playing for Man Utd first. He's not used to trying to feed off a target man, so why Capello thinks that's the way to get the best out of him...I don't know.

[Majiball]

Apparently Terry was acting alone. It's not really surprising that he wants Joe Cole in the team. They have been mates for a long time. Apparently there wasn't the appetite for a mutiny, we have played fairly awful but still haven't lost. It's not over yet.

Maybe Joe Cole doesn't get on with incredibly successful Italian managers. That's two this season that have basically ignored him. He must be doing something wrong.

Apparently being the appropriate word. I do not believe for one second that he was, it just doesn't work like that he had support and encouragement. He's being hung out to dry by the press and his team-mates, especially since they were all (press) harping on about the players doing exactly what he said they were going to. I have heard "Italia 90" mentioned all weekend, they went to Robson and said its not working we need to change it. The players need to do the same with Capello.

I will bet my life it was not a mutiny and never intended in that manner, its about what's best for England. Its all being twisted, revenge for February, revenge for picking Gerrard ahead of him. What tosh, Terry knows as well as most that those motives will ruin the countries chances, he'd never do it with that intent, this is Terry and Co's last chance. Look at the way they have played, you cannot tell me all the players are happy, if anything he's made an error in mentioning it and the rest of the players who will have agreed with him have backed off because Capello's gone mental and started waving his dictator stick.

Almost every fan/coach I have met or spoken to recently does not understand why Cole is not playing. SWP is ahead of him and he's awful at present. Getting on with people is not as important as scoring goals at the world cup and winning games even from the bench Cole is a better option since he can unlock defences, regardless of personal opinion.

[BuckyRover]

Maybe you should have a sit down meeting with Ancelotti and Capello and ask them?

He is obviously doing something wrong. I appreciate his talents, but I watch Chelsea a lot (my dads team) and I understand why the Chelsea fans aren't that bothered about him leaving.

I remember when Keegan was sacked, his failing according to the

media was his refusal to play 3-5-2. That was his downfall (along with the results). But was never mentioned again after he was sacked.

This is just a narrative that the media have chosen, part of the tried and tested story arc. We were very good in qualifying playing 4-4-2, and now suddenly we can't play it. People should be questioning the players instead of assuming Capello has lost his managerial talent.

[Iceman]

James

Upson Dawson Terry A Cole

SWP Barry Lampard J Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

to be honest, the English team lacks a creative midfielder, and also a bit of bite in midfield. There is nobody in the mould of (dare i say it,Paul Ince) who could get stuck in. Im not sure what Lampard brings to the England team at the moment. However, he will be in there along with Gerrard.

the only other team you might want to see is;

James

Upson Dawson Terry A Cole

Lennon Barry Gerrard J Cole

Crouch Rooney

[LeChuck]

Upson at right back?

I know we're desperate, but...

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Here we go:

James

Johnson-Terry-Upson-Cole

Barry

SWP-Gerrard-Lampard-Cole

Rooney

[LeChuck]

"Breaking news - Fabio Capello has told the BBC that Matthew Upson will start alongside John Terry at centre-back in place of the suspended Jamie Carragher against Slovenia on Wednesday." - from BBC live feed.

With that in mind...I'd go exactly as ADB has above, but change Wright-Phillips for Milner (if he's fit now?).

[Steve Moss]

This will ruffle a few feathers but...Myself and my mates think Big Sam would have got a lot more out of this squad. . . . Roy Hodgson would be an excellent choice to replace Capello if he fails. If Capello suceeds and gets this lot playing well, it will be a bloody good result from where they are right now. I've just read that article by Sam. He's exactly right.

IMO, Sam or Hodgson would have collected the entire 6 points for the 2 games to date in Group C.

Having said that, I would be shocked if Capello doesn't collect a win this Wednesday.

Bit harsh, we should try him in the position he's been playing for Man Utd first. He's not used to trying to feed off a target man, so why Capello thinks that's the way to get the best out of him...I don't know.

I'd bench him for being lazy, attacking the fans, being rude to officials, acting like a [don't say the word) to the opposition [1 or 2 Slovenians are apparently bearing grudges], failing to sing the national anthem [which is indicative of a spirit/ego problem], and to prick the bubble around his ego. Crouch and Defoe would be a perfectly competent pairing. Rooney is NOT necessary. The quicker the manager drives this point home, the quicker Rooney will kick it into high gear and learn to keep his mouth shut.

[Majiball]

Maybe you should have a sit down meeting with Ancelotti and Capello and ask them?

He is obviously doing something wrong. I appreciate his talents, but I watch Chelsea a lot (my dads team) and I understand why the Chelsea fans aren't that bothered about him leaving.

I remember when Keegan was sacked, his failing according to the

media was his refusal to play 3-5-2. That was his downfall (along with the results). But was never mentioned again after he was sacked.

This is just a narrative that the media have chosen, part of the tried and tested story arc. We were very good in qualifying playing 4-4-2, and now suddenly we can't play it. People should be questioning the players instead of assuming Capello has lost his managerial talent.

Haha, very funny.

So why bother taking him? Should the manager not take 23 players who he has faith in? What is the point of it all then, he should have taken Johnson or Walcott if he's not going to play him.

One person I met made a great comment there is a world of difference between spending 4 days under Capello's regime to 4-5 weeks. You can all say they should get on with it and belt up all you like, but that's akin to getting blood out of a stone. You will not change their personalities and its about having the knowledge and know-how to get the best out of those individuals as they are.

4-4-2 worked fine in qualifying, obviously. but when you have only three games to get it right and England have played the way they have??? Changes are needed, so either you drop players and replace them with lesser ones which they are, keeping it the same. Or you try something different and play them in roles they are used to week in week out in an effort to re-discover their form. England will get nowhere if you do not get, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, Cole firing on all cylinders.

Capello is an immense manager he's won it all at every club, but its always been one way and one way only. This is a tournament and its not the same as winning a league, or a champions league. Every match from now on is a one off England must win every single game from here on in. At the end of the day there are issues in the camp, the performances on the pitch prove it, something needs to be done and blame cannot fall just purely on the players everyone must take some.

Upson and Terry, two left sided centre backs playing together? I hope they get plenty of training time.

[Amo]

Hart

Johnson - Upson - Dawson - Warnock

Lennon - Barry - Carrick - Milner

J. Cole

Crouch

^ The only England team I could just about stomach to support.

[LeChuck]

Upson and Terry, two left sided centre backs playing together? I hope they get plenty of training time.

Eh? John Terry is right footed.

I know he usually plays on the left side, but that's only because he usually plays with another right footed centre back and his left foot is pretty decent in comparison to most.

[Nate]

The players think they are a lot better than they are. They have all got a chip on their shoulders. They act like they don't have anything to prove, which at club level most of them don't. Unfortunately at internationaly level they have a lot to prove

Bingo! What they have to realise is that there aren't many easy games in the WC now and that so called "weaker" football nations aren't a push over anymore.

[67splitscreen]

Disappointed that Upson has been given the shout, I really do not rate him, agree with Maj playing two left sided players is not ideal.

Dawson may not have the international experience but has been in top form since the turn of the year and would have offered a better balance.

IMO Dawson also has the advantage of more pace.

As most I am just hoping J. Cole gets a chance. Thought he was terrific in the final friendly.

[broadsword]

This will ruffle a few feathers but...

Myself and my mates think Big Sam would have got a lot more out of this squad. Someone like Big Sam, who knows how to motivate players, would not be facing this situation. Whether Capello can do what he needs to do (get into the players heads and get them playing without fear) remains to be seen. If he can't in this competition, he won't in any other. That experiment will have failed. I don't want us to lose Big Sam to the England job but he'd do a better job come competition time than Capello has right now. Roy Hodgson would be an excellent choice to replace Capello if he fails. If Capello suceeds and gets this lot playing well, it will be a bloody good result from where they are right now.

I've just read that article by Sam. He's exactly right.

Do you really think that Sam Allardyce would have the credentials to be taken seriously by the England players?

He might have better ideas than Capello, but the players wouldn't listen to him. He's a manager who hasn't achieved much in the game compared to the big guns.

[broadsword]

Some of the stuff Sam wrote in that article is right you cant treat English players like Italian players it's a whole different culture of people and the same disciplines wont work on both, English players have always been treat with kid gloves because they just dont have the national pride like other countries and wont be bullied into playing well.

Sorry, but this is just ######.

Certainly at the moment we have players that don't give two figs about playing for England.

Try telling Bryan Robson, Paul Gascoigne, Alan Shearer, Terry Butcher, Kevin Keegan, Stuart Pearce, Paul Ince, Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles, Shilton, Banks, Gary Lineker that they didn't have any national pride. Jesus. I'd like to see you tell Butcher or Chrissy Woods, you'd get a right wallop.

[BuckyRover]

Exactly like McClaren. His record (England apart) is actually very good.

I appreciate CrazyIvans sentiment, but in reality it would never work.

[unluckymorton]

Do you really think that Sam Allardyce would have the credentials to be taken seriously by the England players?

He might have better ideas than Capello, but the players wouldn't listen to him. He's a manager who hasn't achieved much in the game compared to the big guns.

I agree in principal but it just depends which players Sam picked. He may actually pick players who would play as a team and play for our county with pride. Sam could be the manager to bring the unfashionable players into the fold and break the trend of selecting players because they play for Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and the likes.

I used to follow England when the players were genuinely proud of wearing the shirt. I think some of the current England squad are not as interested in succeeding for England as they are about their sponsorship deals.

[ABBEY]

IMO, Sam or Hodgson would have collected the entire 6 points for the 2 games to date in Group C.

Having said that, I would be shocked if Capello doesn't collect a win this Wednesday.

I'd bench him for being lazy, attacking the fans, being rude to officials, acting like a [don't say the word) to the opposition [1 or 2 Slovenians are apparently bearing grudges], failing to sing the national anthem [which is indicative of a spirit/ego problem], and to prick the bubble around his ego. Crouch and Defoe would be a perfectly competent pairing. Rooney is NOT necessary. The quicker the manager drives this point home, the quicker Rooney will kick it into high gear and learn to keep his mouth shut.

i think your spot on with this post( 4 points for sam tho )

[beerwins]

Sorry, but this is just ######.

Certainly at the moment we have players that don't give two figs about playing for England.

Try telling Bryan Robson, Paul Gascoigne, Alan Shearer, Terry Butcher, Kevin Keegan, Stuart Pearce, Paul Ince, Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles, Shilton, Banks, Gary Lineker that they didn't have any national pride. Jesus. I'd like to see you tell Butcher or Chrissy Woods, you'd get a right wallop.

Im talking about the present set up not eons ago, all those players you mention were certainly heart on sleeves players most of them for their clubs too, but that was then and this is now and the modern footballer is more of a celeb than an athlete.

How many of those players in the England shirt today would rather be sat on a sunny beach signing autographs than training hard to get out of this group?

[ABBEY]

How many of those players in the England shirt today would rather be sat on a sunny beach signing autographs than training hard to get out of this group?

i made this exact same point in a facebook rant during the game.

[waggy]

tris or clare i have tickets for pe if you want them,ring 0839937149

[philipl]

Dawson is miles better than Upson.

[thenodrog]

Dawson is miles better than Upson.

Thay are both decidedly average imo.

[ABBEY]

ABBEY RANT

[roversmum]

Well, really, Abbey

I COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF! WELL SAID THAT MAN!!!