Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[tony gale's mic]

I thought Rooney was trying, but quite simply nothing came off for him. His confidence slipped rapidly as the game went on and led to him not being able to even control the ball by the end. He probably should have been taken off in the second half, but not for lack of effort, just for the fact he was frustrated and totally off-form. Not starting him against Slovenia is unthinkable.

I agree with the first part but I disagree with the unthinkable part. While I would probably start him the only proven strike partnership that produces goals in our squad is Crouch and Defoe. However, starting with them and not with Rooney would rob us of our most talented player but would allow us a brilliant impact sub.

What's the answer though? Has anyone considered having Gerrard as the deeper "holding" midfielder and ask him instead to concentrate on winning tackles and distributing the ball from deep, both of which he's excellent at for Liverpool? With Rooney then sat in a free role behind the two strikers it would be a formation it would mean we utilised the best of his creative aspects whilst having him there as a very real goal threat. I'm not saying this is the best way of doing it but I'm surprised it's never been suggested. It would either leave a fair gap in midfield or, more likely, a gap between midfield and defence which would expose the back line but I don't think there's a great deal of pace in the Slovenian forward line.

[Tom]

He was walking around with his hands on his hips most of the second half not looking intterested, either he's nowhere near fit enough or he just wasn't giving it enough.

If it was Heskey doing the same people would call for him to be lynched.

I fully expect Rooney will play and probably score tomorrow but it doesn't change my opinion in that he shouldn't start this game.

As TGM said he could be a superb impact sub especially if he has to prove himself.

(Does anyone else find all this debate over a game against a very poor opposition depressing, we should be comfortable by now)

[bazza]

Rooney needs dropping to the bench.

My starting eleven would be:-

James

Johnson Terry Upson A Cole

SWP Barry Gerrard J Cole

Crouch Defoe

I made a difficult choice in Gerrard over Lampard.

But the Italian will not agree with me.

[tony gale's mic]

He was walking around with his hands on his hips most of the second half not looking intterested, either he's nowhere near fit enough or he just wasn't giving it enough.

If it was Heskey doing the same people would call for him to be lynched.

I fully expect Rooney will play and probably score tomorrow but it doesn't change my opinion in that he shouldn't start this game.

Our complete lack of invention in midfield means he was given absolutely nothing to feed off! Problem is that if he goes too far into midfield territory where he might be able to add something useful we're left with the one man up front who can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. What did you expect him to do, chase shadows?

[DE.]

I agree with the first part but I disagree with the unthinkable part. While I would probably start him the only proven strike partnership that produces goals in our squad is Crouch and Defoe. However, starting with them and not with Rooney would rob us of our most talented player but would allow us a brilliant impact sub.

What's the answer though? Has anyone considered having Gerrard as the deeper "holding" midfielder and ask him instead to concentrate on winning tackles and distributing the ball from deep, both of which he's excellent at for Liverpool? With Rooney then sat in a free role behind the two strikers it would be a formation it would mean we utilised the best of his creative aspects whilst having him there as a very real goal threat. I'm not saying this is the best way of doing it but I'm surprised it's never been suggested. It would either leave a fair gap in midfield or, more likely, a gap between midfield and defence which would expose the back line but I don't think there's a great deal of pace in the Slovenian forward line.

To be honest I don't think we neccassarily need a strike partnership. We don't have any partnership that can be considered "prolific", and I think Rooney can play and in fact prefers to play up front on his own. We've got the midfield personnel to keep four in the middle and then push Gerrard up into an attacking midfielder/supporting striker role. We've already got Barry and Carrick who can play the holding midfield role, and Gerrard is one of a few players in our midfield who can burst forward and stick a goal in (see: USA).

If Capello is going to stick with this 4-4-2 formo then perhaps dropping Rooney isn't unthinkable, but I think a change of formation is preferable to a change of personnel. Crouch and Defoe as a partnership just don't inspire me with confidence. Neither is going to be able to do any more than Rooney if they're getting no service, which was the biggest problem for Rooney against Algeria. Rooney likes to create his own space and have people feed balls into him, but when Heskey's up front with him he's a little restricted as Heskey is the one finding space and having balls launched up to him. All Rooney can do is guess where Heskey is going to flick it on, if he wins the ball.

Heskey and Rooney up front again tomorrow is the worst case scenario... but it really wouldn't surprise me if Capello tried it again.

[Gav]

I don't think you can judge him too harshly. He was annoyed after that game because of his and our performance.

Judge him too harshly???, the most working class player in the current England squad, from inner city Liverpool, has absolutely no idea what it takes to follow the national team to major competition.

Slagging off the fans who have saved up for 4yrs?? to follow these over paid ivory tower dwelling ****s.

Unbelievable, I'd drop him and Terry for tomorrows game, they're a disgrace

[beerwins]

A lot of my friends and people I have spoke to have the idea this match is going to be a gimme, I must admit I wish I could see it like that, Teams have found it hard to score against defensive teams in this competition, Slovenia can defend, they dont need to win, we cant seem to play or score and Capello is a very stubborn man.

I only see Milner on the right wing being the only change Capello will make and I dont know if that will be enough, I think Heskey will start up front and Gerrard will start on the left, I really hope im wrong and the English players dont underestimate Slovenia like so many are and get ready for a real battle.

One thing is for sure is that an early goal will really set this game on fire and thats what im hoping for entertainment wise.

[RoyRover]

A lot of my friends and people I have spoke to have the idea this match is going to be a gimme, I must admit I wish I could see it like that, Teams have found it hard to score against defensive teams in this competition, Slovenia can defend, they dont need to win, we cant seem to play or score and Capello is a very stubborn man.

One thing is for sure is that an early goal will really set this game on fire and thats what im hoping for entertainment wise.

That's one of the things that has left me scratching my head. England have been poor for not only the two games at the World Cup, but their warm up games too. People said that these warm up games wouldn't matter, but they have bought that form into the World Cup and actually got worse. Form isn't something that you can turn on and off. I thought that England would get a draw against the U.S, but then also tipped them to blow Algeria and Slovenia into oblivion. They were so bad against Algeria it wasn't true and I'm now questioning if they can indeed just show up and beat Slovenia as easily as I thought they would last week and as easily as other people still believe they will despite how awful they've been. Slovenia have shown through qualifying and this World Cup that they don't concede many goals. They have a quality goalkeeper in Samir Handanovic and in Miso Brecko and Valter Birsa they have two of the best players so far at the tournament. They are also technically very good, which is something that England always struggle with. If England can't get themselves up for this game and at least show a bit of fight, then they are a disgrace to the 'world class' tag that many of the players live off and to the fans that follow them everywhere they go. If they score any early goal, they could go on and win by two or three. If they don't or Slovenia score first, then things could start to become desperate.

[Steve Moss]

Buddle and Altidore up front, according to the Guardian. I think this pairing will work very well. Little known fact is that Edson Buddle is named for Pele. Hope the magic rubs off.

I think there is a very good prospect that the USA will win this one. Hope to see you Englanders on the other side of the Group stage.

[Gav]

Capello is a very stubborn man.

....and is one of the most successful managers of his era, once the players cross that white line he has no control over them, the buck stops with the players, not the manager.

100k - 150k a week and can't adapt to different formations and living away from home for 4wks, maybe its the ball? maybe its the pitches, MAYBE ITS THE PLAYERS!

Time for them to earn there money, no excuses, so far they've been nothing short of a national disgrace, but luckily they have a chance to put things right.

[JAL]

100k - 150k a week and can't adapt to different formations and living away from home for 4wks, maybe its the ball? maybe its the pitches, MAYBE ITS THE PLAYERS!

Time for them to earn there money, no excuses, so far they've been nothing short of a national disgrace, but luckily they have a chance to put things right.

The England players are a true reflection on English society today, in that their earnings regarding output, is closely linked to that of the CEO's, the bankers, the City boys in this country, in that their earnings are overpaid by a factor of at least fives times what their real earnings should be.

A nation of 55m versus one of 2m, if England dont win, then we'll need to take a serious look at ourselves,

and by that I mean the ordinary individuals of this land not these overpaid professionals who've taken us on the road to financial disaster.

[waggy]

were not going home,were not going home have faith

[RibbleValleyRover]

I think England will win but it will be far from convincing. Slovenia are a better team than some think as displayed by beating Russia in the playoff to get here.

From what I’ve seen England will get knocked out at the second round or Quarter-final stage, the quality just isn't there to lift the trophy.

[philipl]

I'd start the second string.

They would at least be desperate to impress and would still be good enough to beat Slovenia 9 times out of 10.

[Hughesy]

For me -

Joe Cole has to start & we should play 4-5-1.

Also when the World Cup is over, John Terry should be removed from all future England Squads - he's done it at Chelsea & now he's doing it with the national team - he thinks he is the boss! Show the cocky cockney that he isnt!

[Gav]

Joe Cole has to start & we should play 4-5-1.

Not sure if I posted this or not but......

Spoke to a Chelsea fan last week who was saying the Cole is far from the player he was 2 season ago. He returned from injury last season and has lost his pace and looked average at best.

The media seems to have jumped on the Cole bandwagon, but maybe he's just not up to it after his injury, and Capello can see that in training.

[Majiball]

Not sure if I posted this or not but......

Spoke to a Chelsea fan last week who was saying the Cole is far from the player he was 2 season ago. He returned from injury last season and has lost his pace and looked average at best.

He can't have fallen that far if United and Arsenal are chasing him?

He missed the whole of pre-season last year which always makes things very hard for the rest of the year.

[BuckyRover]

Gav.

What a silly thing to say. It's obvious that Capello has gone totally crazy in the last few weeks and his previous winning record was just a fluke.

If we go out today, it will be because Joe Cole was not picked. The media will make this very clear.

Back to the point, I said it a few pages ago that I watched Chelsea many times this season (my second team, Dad supports them) and Joe Cole is not the player everybody is talking about at the moment. You won't be able to find a Chelsea fan that ardently wants him in the England team or is upset about him leaving Chelsea.

The press and gullible public are pathetic sometimes.

[Majiball]

He hardly played poorly against Japan.

[broadsword]

If he starts Lampard and Gerrard together with Heskey up front I'll leap off a doll's house.

[BuckyRover]

He came on against a tired Japan side that had lost their previous 6 games.

I'm not saying he isn't decent, I am saying he is not the key. Ancelotti and Capello don't rate him. Man Utd have pulled out of the race to sign him (they signed Owen ffs).

I trust Capello, end of story. Our qualifying performance and his record mean this has to be the case. He is not picking him because he thinks others are better. That's good enough for me.

It would be akin to the Norwegian media starting a campaign to get Gamst back into the Norway team (hypothetically, I know he is in the team). They would be showing highlights of his previous goals and we (Blackburn fans) would be saying hang on a minute, he's not that good anymore. Which is exactly what the Chelsea fans are saying.

All that being said, I would be happy if he played a blinder.

[Gav]

He can't have fallen that far if United and Arsenal are chasing him?

He missed the whole of pre-season last year which always makes things very hard for the rest of the year.

Take your point, but surely if he was still up to it hed be given a new contract by Chelsea?

[beerwins]

Team on talksport was back four we thought, Barry in front of back four, Lampard, Gerrard and Milner in front of Barry and Defoe and Rooney up front.

[LeChuck]

Team on talksport was back four we thought, Barry in front of back four, Lampard, Gerrard and Milner in front of Barry and Defoe and Rooney up front.

Johnson and Cole better be on form, looks rather narrow.

Having said that, if they are on form it looks like it could be a very good team, although I do worry about Defoe and Rooney playing together.

[beerwins]

Johnson and Cole better be on form, looks rather narrow.

Having said that, if they are on form it looks like it could be a very good team, although I do worry about Defoe and Rooney playing together.

Spot on, looks a good team for keeping possesion but I expect Johnson, Cole and Barry to be very busy.

Fingers crossed it works out ok.