Group C Discussion - Algeria, England, Slovenia, Usa

[grizfoot]

I thought England played reasonably well and if it wasn't for Green's mistake we would have won the game comfortably. The lack of killer instinct in the final third is a bit of worry though, Lennon, Wright-Phillips and Heskey all had chances but looked tentative infront of goal. Although with Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard in the team there should be plenty of goals. Suprised Joe Cole wasn't invovled tonight that would be my own issue with the selections, strange that Milner was withdrawn after half an hour clearly wasn't fit and then he was replaced by Wright-Phillips who's terribly one-footed and not suited on the left-flank at all.

Thought England's best two players were Heskey and Gerrard, they combined for the goal and where at the heart of everything England did well. If we put in similiar performance in the next two games I think we should qualify comfortably (although England don't usually do comfortably).

I should think the USA should also qualify from the group they look to have a decent enough team and I was particuarly impressed with Onyewu at the back, he managed to keep Rooney fairly quite.

[rebelzero]

regarding Onyewu and his offer to play for free. I believe the full story is that when he joined AC Milan on a free last year, he had a 3 year deal. As he was injured in the US qualifier in October and missed almost the full season, he asked to extend his deal at Milan so that he has 3 more years to play, but the final year of his contract is for no money (i.e., the year "for free"). I'm pretty sure that's the story.

Regarding today's match - if England played with the intensity in the second half for the full match, as I think many on this board would have expected, I think the outcome would have been different. That said, after the first 5 minutes, I think the USA defense deserves some real credit for how they played, and especially how they recovered when the first man was beaten. Even the goal could really be faulted on a MF not tracking back (Clark). The RB Cherundolo, yellow card aside, really had an impressive match. And Lennon and Wright-Phillips (and A. Cole too) really never had a lot of success on the flanks, although I give Lennon credit for trying.

While I'm not fan of Heskey, for the role Capello wanted him to play, I think he tried hard. But he lacked (along with others in the squad, especially Lampard) any conviction to try to win - the lack of passion, something even Rooney didn't show a lot until the mid 2nd half. I wonder if Joe Cole would have brought that spark for you.

Both sides have a lot to think about for the second match. Hopefully you english can get the decisive win you expect against Algeria and us yanks can get past Slovenia in the next match

[broadsword]

Alot of prejudice on here against Heskey who in fact had a very good game and set up the goal for Gerrard.

I'd agree that that was a cracking set-up, just perfect.

But Emile didn't exactly set the world on fire apart from that. I think he's much better than the common perception, but he can be a bit clumsy at times. I'd still start him in the next game.

Green's error was unbelievable. I can't see him playing for England again. Probably a good thing that he made that error then, rather than wait until a knockout game.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Another Englishman who supports Australia ........ are you related to Lord Haw Haw ? He was a low form of life too.

So if you are English born but support the Aussies in the WC you are a "low form of life" and similar to a Nazi propagandist?

Here, saw this and thought of you...............................

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=p4qN9pduox0&feature=related

[Tom]

Too many passeners today fir my liking, lampard, Rooney, milner and wright philips contributed nothing. Heskey motm by a long way for me it's just a shame his strike partner looked lazy and uninterested.

Carragher looked a massive liability as well when he came on.

We'll still win the group but need massive improvements if we are to win.

[Eddie]

I really thought we played quite well, nothing spectacular but we should have won the game by a goal or two. Certainly no reason to be depressed.

[sleepyjack]

Surely this has plagued the England team for decades?

Doesn't make it less of a problem.

[Ianrally]

A draw was just about what we deserved. Rooney hardly got a kick whether that was due to his disinterest or that he was marked out of the game we shall have to wait until the next game to find out.

It is not the end of the world and we should still qualify.

Every time we go into a tournament I always see the same faults with England when you are able to compare them to other teams in the mix. Our players are simply not as good as they, or worse still the media, think they are. The sooner we realize that the better it will be.

It was patently obvious last night that the majority of our players are unable to control the ball with one touch, SWP was as guilty of that as anyone and more classy opposition will make us pay big style for that lack of skill.

Yes Green made a howler and Robbo should have been there anyway in his place, but he isn’t and Green’s mistake is now history. Let’s move on and win the next two games.

COME ON ENGLAND

[Blue blood]

If I was a bit surprised at the squad announcement, on first viewing my sceptism has turned to downright disappointment. In many ways Capello went back to the same old England - players picked on history and who they play for rather than on form. So much for this new era.

I'm amazed that £6 million cannot inspire the notion that Lampard and Gerrard can't play together as the two central midfielders. Everyone else knows it, and the result was Lampard had a very quiet game, one shot aside.

Out of form players picked - Carragher looked scarily slow, Wright-Phillips showed why he's lost his City place. And Heskey - he really is a contrast. Excellent in the build up play and working his socks off, but cannot finish. For a premiership team I'd call this an acceptable trade off (although Villa clearly don't think so) as his link up play is fantastic, but at international level, not being able to score as a forward costs you. He really should've put his chance away. If we are to play a link up centre forward it needs to be crouch. The link up isn't quite as good but he knows where the back of the net is.

Injured players picked - I'm a massive fan of Milner, and would have him as my left mid choice but he clearly wasn't fit. King injured too - hardly unsuprising.

As for Green. Read that he's the keeper with the most unforced errors, and have never been convinced by him. His mistake wasn't just bad it was terrible. What we need is a keeper who's had a good season, made minimal mistakes, yet has a solid amount of international experience...

In many ways, changing a few names, this could've been written 4 years ago. I'm beginning to think that the sooner the golden generation retire and we can loose some reputations, that a clean slate will massively benefit England.

There are positives. USA are a decent side - a draw isn't a terrible result against them.

Also if it wasn't for Green's howler, I don't think we'd have lost, we'd have ground out the 1-0 win. The error handed the US a point. (Although US defending denied us the three.)

And we had several chances that really should've been finished, on another day Heskey or Wright-Phillips would've put their chances away, actually they wouldn't but other players in those positions would've. Johnson and Gerrard looked rather good, Rooney won't be as anonymous again and we've still got a stunningly easy group.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

I think we'll see Barry back for the Algeria game sitting behind Lampard whilst Gerrard pushes back to the left of midfield.

Despite being my MOTM, I would also drop Heskey as I think it would be better to put Crouch upfront with Rooney because it's now a fight for top place and Crouch will get us more goals than Heskey will as well as cause a lot of problems to the Algerian defence.

[Eddie]

I thought Lampard and Gerrard played really well together yesterday. They bossed the midfield and did a job at both ends of the pitch, with Lampard consistently sitting a bit behind Gerrard. We outplayed the States, which isn't an amazing feat exactly, but they are a good side and we limited them to two real chances and created more than that ourselves. Rooney wasn't particularly involved, which is more of a concern, but I think the team quickly realised that they couldn't handled Heskey and by playing through him they removed some of the Rooney threat.

[Bobby G]

I dont know which game you were watching but Lampard and Gerrard didnt boss anything. Lampard took about half an hour before he had a few touches on the ball. They barely keep the ball and therefore England had no control of the tempo which is controlled by central midfield.

But then again, neither of them are THAT type of player. England lack a central midfielder whose able to hold onto the ball. Carrick is the only one in the squad but I dont rate him at all.

[Rovermatt]

Doesn't make it less of a problem.

Indeed but can such an endemic problem be rectified in a week?

[Rovermatt]

I thought Lampard and Gerrard played really well together yesterday. They bossed the midfield and did a job at both ends of the pitch, with Lampard consistently sitting a bit behind Gerrard. We outplayed the States, which isn't an amazing feat exactly, but they are a good side and we limited them to two real chances and created more than that ourselves. Rooney wasn't particularly involved, which is more of a concern, but I think the team quickly realised that they couldn't handled Heskey and by playing through him they removed some of the Rooney threat.

I'm not sure they 'bossed' the midfield. The Yanks got in about them and while the English midfield's obvious class flared every so often (witness Gerrard's brilliant goal and Lampard's cracking effort in the second half) I have to say I was particularly impressed with Michael Bradley in US engine room - mobile, aggressive and a nice touch.

I thought the Americans looked a really tidy unit.

[Stuart]

Also if it wasn't for Green's howler, I don't think we'd have lost, we'd have ground out the 1-0 win.

Sorry to pick on one sentence and take it out of context BB, but a draw against USA, and the manner it happened did feel like a defeat. Although I'm probably being melodramatic - hopefully the group is too weak for us not too qualify. Can't afford more draws though.

I've been saying it since the squad was announced that Green shouldn't have been there. I was shocked that he was given the starting spot yesterday.

Doesn't feel like the first time I've seen this image this season.

[1864roverite]

Lets be brutally honest, Englands chances of glory havent improved and on last nights non performance, the teams such as Spain, Italy and Brazil will not have anything to worry about. Even Germany must be praying they can play us.

Greens attempted stop was simply shocking, a baby would have managed to stop it. There can be no excuses from him, he wasnt under pressure, the shot trickled towards him and there was no bobble from the thin air of Africa.

It was basic lazy keeping from a poor keeper.

As for Heskey ? Great pass for the goal but he can be ashamed of the miss he hit straight at the keeper when clean through.

All in all, its a typical England let down once again at a massive tournament. the atmosphere around Chorley waqs buzzing in the build up yesterday just before 2015hrs it had all but extinguished to something like a night out in burnley.

All I can say is that it was a good job the curry was good last night !

[American]

I think Abbey summed it up best:"why did john terry not shag robert greens wife"

[braddock]

i didn't think it was all that bad. had green not messed up i reckon we'd have done them by three since they wouldn't have packed the defence so much. thought heskey did very well and i'd play him next game. rooney was relatively quiet but he was fouled continuously in the second half so couldn't impact the game too much. can't believe everyone is shocked and surprised, what were you expecting? england are the most hyped international team on the planet, surely anyone who watches them understands exactly how good they are. i felt they played to their ability in the main and america raised their game and thanks to their defense matched us. a long way to go in this cup, my opinions haven't changed at all about how good england are, there is no need for alarm bells.

[hollowsr]

Alot of prejudice on here against Heskey who in fact had a very good game and set up the goal for Gerrard.

Heskey won a lot of headers no denying that, but how many found a team mate?? He should have buried that one on one, like wise Wright-Phillips. Also how many times was Heskey offside? It must have been at least 4.

Green- awful mistake, going to be even lower on confidence now, especially as no one waited for him at HT, poor team spirit.

Johnson- Was probably the most threatening going forward, worrying as he's our RB

Cole- Did what he had to do, tried his best going forward but can't be easy with SWP in front of you.

Terry- Not put under much pressure

King- Send to scrap yard, he can't play for long enough periods in a short time.

Lennon- Started off ok I thought but then just didn't try to beat his man at all in the second half.

Lampard & Gerrard- Good goal from Gerrard, but once again they show that they can't play together in CM, they both are to worried about going forward as they don't know if the other will stay back.

Rooney- Anonymous but you know he could do something out of nothing

Carragher- After possibly his worst season for Liverpool he's now playing for us, was beaten for pace easily last night.

Milner- Didn't do much on the left, where's J.Cole?

SWP- So awful it was untrue, he was awful when he played on the right for England a few years ago and people seemed to have forgotten this.

Our squad is so poor it is untrue.

Our 3 keepers read- Relegated, almost relegated, and 9th but on loan from another club.

Look at Spain with Casillas, Reina and Valdes.

This isn't an over reaction from last night I thought this as soon as the squad was selected, which was an awful way by the way!

[thenodrog]

Good grief!

How embarrassing for his family and neighbours. I shouldn't be suprised if they get a rebate on the Council Tax.

[American]

i didn't think it was all that bad. had green not messed up i reckon we'd have done them by three since they wouldn't have packed the defence so much. thought heskey did very well and i'd play him next game. rooney was relatively quiet but he was fouled continuously in the second half so couldn't impact the game too much. can't believe everyone is shocked and surprised, what were you expecting? england are the most hyped international team on the planet, surely anyone who watches them understands exactly how good they are. i felt they played to their ability in the main and america raised their game and thanks to their defense matched us. a long way to go in this cup, my opinions haven't changed at all about how good england are, there is no need for alarm bells.

Actually, Donovan and Dempsey had off games and Findley started because of his speed, but wasn't the best choice. We could have played much better than we did.

[thenodrog]

Another Englishman who supports Australia ........ are you related to Lord Haw Haw ? He was a low form of life too.

Ever stopped to consider Jim that the skewed society that we live in would have meant that you would not have dared make those comments if Deryck had said he supported Pakistan.

[thenodrog]

I thought Lampard and Gerrard played really well together yesterday. They bossed the midfield and did a job at both ends of the pitch, with Lampard consistently sitting a bit behind Gerrard.

Eddie I bet you wet yourself over that late free kick that Lamps sent just over the bar...... and into row Z.

Lampard was bloody awful, useless in fact and the best thing that I can say about his performance is that it was Andrewsesque.

[RoyRover]

Every time we go into a tournament I always see the same faults with England when you are able to compare them to other teams in the mix. Our players are simply not as good as they, or worse still the media, think they are. The sooner we realize that the better it will be.

You could add many England fans to the media. Many of England's 'star' players have consistently under performed when they have played at major tournaments. Even their squad players look weaker than other teams. But lets be honest, England should walk through this group. The game against Slovenia will be tricky enough, as they are technically a very good team and Algeria have a few decent players, but England should blow both teams away. England were on top for the second half and despite only creating two clear cut chances that I can remember (Heskey's one on one and SWP effort from inside the box), they were the ones who looked more like scoring.

[Billy Castell]

In:

Crouch

Dawson

Barry (Carrick if he's not fit)

Out:

Heskey

King

Lampard

Heskey was pretty good, but the game had shown why I don't think he should be playing. He was mobile, and won headers, but the headers were all over the place, and his complete inability to score cost us. Mark Cueto could do what Heskey does. Good pass to Gerrard though.