Group H Discussion - Chile, Honduras, Spain, Switzerland

[neekoy]

I suppose if people don't think it is broke then no need to fix it.

[Billy Castell]

You sound American Neekoy, with this hatred of a defence, and draws. Just because a team makes pretty patterns, it doesn't mean they should get an advantage. Otherwise, we should let Arsenal start with 12 points next season, as they play 'real football', that appeases the soccerball fans, whilst both ourselves and Stoke start with -10.

[Iceman]

not good i got a potential 2nd round game, that would be Spain vs Either Portugal or Ivory Coast. That has now been blown apart, and could now be Switzerland or Chile against either Portugal or Ivory Coast. C'mon Spain, i dont want to go watch Switzerland

[RoyRover]

I didn't think that the Spanish were that bad yesterday, they just came up against a side that were very disciplined in defence and stuck to their task. The Swiss know that they aren't nearly as talented as the Spanish, so they had to find a way to compete. If they had gone out and tried to play flowing attacking football, the Spanish would have picked them off for fun. The Spanish kept persisting with the intricate passing, when they could have bought Fernando Llorente on, which would have given them more of an ariel threat, for the crosses that Jesus Navas was putting in. I think this result is good for the World Cup, despite tipping Spain for the World Cup. I still think that they are good enough to win it and think that they will get through the group. It shows that teams have to play to their best and can't take anyone lightly. The performance of the North Koreans from the night before was fantastic and the Swiss followed this up by proving what you can do when you have a 11 men willing to work hard and you have a coach who knows what he is doing.

[neekoy]

You sound American Neekoy, with this hatred of a defence, and draws. Just because a team makes pretty patterns, it doesn't mean they should get an advantage. Otherwise, we should let Arsenal start with 12 points next season, as they play 'real football', that appeases the soccerball fans, whilst both ourselves and Stoke start with -10.

I certainly didn't want to make it sound that way, I appreciate a quality defence and the tactics that the Siwss imposed were carried out to the letter of the law.

I just wanted to throw up some suggestions as to increasing the quality of what we see on the pitch, I am not saying my ideas are feasible just that I think we need to find someway of increasing the opportunity to play with an attacking mentality.

Limit overseas players in domestic leagues, share the wealth, bring the standard of individual player up etc etc.

[tcj_jones]

Spain weren't bad by any means, but their game plan was hugely flawed. Two sitting midfielders and absolutely no width made it easy for the Swiss. Only when Navas came on did the game come to life and the Spanish looked like scoring. They're going to have to change their set up in their next match.

[Eddie]

It all looked very pretty, but that was simply because Switzerland were happy for Spain to play in front of them.

[Cheeky Sidders]

I'm surprised nobody seems to rate Chile. They were the second best qualifiers in the South American group, just behind Brazil, and they picked up almost half of their points away from home showing that they travel well. They also beat Argentina at home. Their strikers are no slouches and unlike the preening, prancing pansies of Spain they know where the goal is. They'll give anyone a good game.

Spain deserved all they got. Like the brilliant Brazil side of 1982, they think they just have to turn up to take the big prize. Extremely talented, granted, but arrogant behind belief and I hope they get sent packing early doors along with the weary French.

[Eddie]

Chile are good and I don't think anyone will want to face them if they make it to the last 16, but the best sides should be able to deal with them.

They are also in a tough position to get through now. That Swiss result is horrible for Honduras and Chile, who will probably both lose to Spain. It isn't impossible that we may well see three sides on 6 points in that group, or one on 6 and two on 4.

[neekoy]

Spain weren't bad by any means, but their game plan was hugely flawed. Two sitting midfielders and absolutely no width made it easy for the Swiss. Only when Navas came on did the game come to life and the Spanish looked like scoring. They're going to have to change their set up in their next match.

They tried to play through them, but as someone else pointed out with Argentina, they didn't mix it up, they tried to walk it into the back of the net and when they did get an opportunity arguably the best striking partnership in the world the fluffed it.

[tcj_jones]

Haha, I think it was me who said that about Argentina

I agree with you, Torres looked well off the pace as well. I hope he regains his touch, because he's one of the most lethal strikers in the world and a joy to watch.

[Steve Moss]

I certainly didn't want to make it sound that way, I appreciate a quality defence and the tactics that the Siwss imposed were carried out to the letter of the law.

I just wanted to throw up some suggestions as to increasing the quality of what we see on the pitch, I am not saying my ideas are feasible just that I think we need to find someway of increasing the opportunity to play with an attacking mentality.

Limit overseas players in domestic leagues, share the wealth, bring the standard of individual player up etc etc.

WHat's wrong with sounding like an American?

I think your idea of limiting foriegn players would improve the national team over a decade or two, but would also drive up the cost of fielding a club squad. Limit the supply (i.e. only English players) will drive up demand and the price. That would not be a good thing for the Rovers.

[Iceman]

Brilliant goal from Villa. 1-0 Spain

[frosty]

Ended 2-0, Villa with both. Sets up a good last round for this group where 3 teams will most likely end up on 6 points!

[tony gale's mic]

Despite their good showing today, Spain will likely need to beat Chile to get through to the next round as you'd back the Swiss to beat Honduras.

I know who I'd rather need to beat out of Slovenia and Chile..

[Iceman]

Despite their good showing today, Spain will likely need to beat Chile to get through to the next round as you'd back the Swiss to beat Honduras.

I know who I'd rather need to beat out of Slovenia and Chile..

TGM, are you saying that it would be easier for England to beat Slovenia than for Spain to beat Chile? After the poor showings against the US and Algeria, are you sure that its going to be that simple?

[tony gale's mic]

TGM, are you saying that it would be easier for England to beat Slovenia than for Spain to beat Chile? After the poor showings against the US and Algeria, are you sure that its going to be that simple?

I don't think it's going to be remotely simple. But Chile are a genuinely very good side, Spain can play very well and still fail to beat them. The only real way that England will fail to beat Slovenia, despite their keeper having a blinder, is us playing as bad as we did before. And even if we do, we might still nick a win like we should have done vs the USA.

We could very well go out tomorrow, but I'm glad we're not facing the likes of Chile.

[philipl]

Possibly the best Group matches saved until last- this one is going to be an absolute nail biter at 7.30 tonight assuming Switzerland get the lead against Honduras.

If Switzerland do win, I think it is only 50/50 on Spain beating Chile by enough.

[LeChuck]

If Switzerland do win, I think it is only 50/50 on Spain beating Chile by enough.

Won't any sort of Spanish win guarantee qualification? If they beat Chile then they'll have better goal difference than them.

[neekoy]

Chile

6 points from 2 matches, +2 goal difference

Chile wins the group with:

* Any win or draw with Spain (regardless of other result)

Chile qualifies in second place with:

* A loss to Spain combined with any Honduras win or Switzerland-Honduras draw

* A loss to Spain combined with a Swiss win that leaves Chile ahead of Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain

3 points from 2 matches, +1 goal difference

Spain can win the group with:

* A win over Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

( Spain beats Chile on tie-breakers with any win )

* A win over Chile, combined with a Switzerland win that leaves Spain above Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain can qualify in second with:

* Any win over Chile (regardless of other result)

* A draw with Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

* A loss to Chile, combined with a Honduras win that leaves Spain ahead of Honduras and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland

3 points from 2 matches, 0 goal difference

Switzerland can win the group with:

* A win over Honduras combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Spain and Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland can qualify in second with:

* A win over Honduras, combined with a draw or Chile win in the other match.

* A win over Honduras, combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

* A draw with Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain.

* A loss to Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Switzerland ahead of both Spain and Honduras on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Honduras

0 points from 2 matches, -3 goal difference

Honduras cannot win the group

Honduras can qualify second in the group with:

* A win over Switzerland, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Honduras ahead of both Spain and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

[dave birch]

Can you run that by me again please Neekoy

[neekoy]

Can you run that by me again please Neekoy

Chile

6 points from 2 matches, +2 goal difference

Chile wins the group with:

* Any win or draw with Spain (regardless of other result)

Chile qualifies in second place with:

* A loss to Spain combined with any Honduras win or Switzerland-Honduras draw

* A loss to Spain combined with a Swiss win that leaves Chile ahead of Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain

3 points from 2 matches, +1 goal difference

Spain can win the group with:

* A win over Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

( Spain beats Chile on tie-breakers with any win )

* A win over Chile, combined with a Switzerland win that leaves Spain above Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain can qualify in second with:

* Any win over Chile (regardless of other result)

* A draw with Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

* A loss to Chile, combined with a Honduras win that leaves Spain ahead of Honduras and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland

3 points from 2 matches, 0 goal difference

Switzerland can win the group with:

* A win over Honduras combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Spain and Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland can qualify in second with:

* A win over Honduras, combined with a draw or Chile win in the other match.

* A win over Honduras, combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

* A draw with Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain.

* A loss to Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Switzerland ahead of both Spain and Honduras on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Honduras

0 points from 2 matches, -3 goal difference

Honduras cannot win the group

Honduras can qualify second in the group with:

* A win over Switzerland, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Honduras ahead of both Spain and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

[67splitscreen]

Chile

6 points from 2 matches, +2 goal difference

Chile wins the group with:

* Any win or draw with Spain (regardless of other result)

Chile qualifies in second place with:

* A loss to Spain combined with any Honduras win or Switzerland-Honduras draw

* A loss to Spain combined with a Swiss win that leaves Chile ahead of Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain

3 points from 2 matches, +1 goal difference

Spain can win the group with:

* A win over Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

( Spain beats Chile on tie-breakers with any win )

* A win over Chile, combined with a Switzerland win that leaves Spain above Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Spain can qualify in second with:

* Any win over Chile (regardless of other result)

* A draw with Chile, combined with a Honduras win or draw in the other match.

* A loss to Chile, combined with a Honduras win that leaves Spain ahead of Honduras and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland

3 points from 2 matches, 0 goal difference

Switzerland can win the group with:

* A win over Honduras combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Spain and Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Switzerland can qualify in second with:

* A win over Honduras, combined with a draw or Chile win in the other match.

* A win over Honduras, combined with a Spain win that leaves Switzerland ahead of Chile on goal difference / tie-breakers.

* A draw with Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain.

* A loss to Honduras, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Switzerland ahead of both Spain and Honduras on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Honduras

0 points from 2 matches, -3 goal difference

Honduras cannot win the group

Honduras can qualify second in the group with:

* A win over Switzerland, combined with a Chile win over Spain that leaves Honduras ahead of both Spain and Switzerland on goal difference / tie-breakers.

Sorry us at the back still didn't catch all of it.

Can you speak up a bit.

Cheers.

[cn174]

Stupid keeper! Good finish from Villa though.

[roversfan99]

Although Chile have been quite impressive, Spains goals have both been excellent.