Second Round (Last 16) Discussion

[SamTheShrew]

Only one team wins the trophy. We haven't beaten any of the former winners in knockout since 1966. Maybe it was never going to happen?

Don't understand your point pal.

Did I expect England to beat Germany, or even win the cup? no chance.

International football to me is tedious. I resent it more and more when everytime Rovers get a good player capable of making the squad, this automatically makes them too good for my club and they demand to leave.

The most refreshing of games this WC have been the players who feel they have earned the right to play in the biggest tournament in the world a la Nelsen.

England players expect it, and their lies your fundamental problem

[Guest Kamy100]

I agree Matt, however I thought that they retained possession a lot better than England did, now this could be because of their movement which gave the person passing the ball a lot of options. In the first half they took England apart in a very clinical manner.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

We lack the type of player to be succesfull.

Rooney at United: Who supplies him the cutting through ball to latch onto? Nani, Valencia, Park, Berbatov, Giggs

Gerrard at Liverpool: Who plays the holding role allowing Gerrard to do as he pleases? Mascherano, formerly Alonso

Lampard at Chelsea: Who plays around Lampard to ensure that his only worry is when to arrive in the penalty area? Essien, Mikel.

How many Alonso's/Essien's/Mascherano's/Giggs' have we produced?? These are the type of players which we need. The type which will allow Gerrard/Rooney to play, the type which, in the prem is always reserved for foreigners. We dont produce them.

None of our stars play with each other, and none of them gel their respective club teams together. Gerrard and Lampard will never set the tempo of the play, that is left to the likes of Mascherano/Essien/Mikel etc. Rooney plays infront of a midfield which has pace, invention and the ability to beat a man and cross a ball. None of our midfield players can do that. We do have very talented players but not in the right positions. There is no balance to the side.

Look at Germany tonight. Bastien Schweinsteiger domintated the midfield, Ozil created absolute chaos. These are exactly the types of player that England can never produce, and the types of player which come into the premiership to provide assists and defensive cover to our 'golden generation' of players.

[Majiball]

Englands Ozil could be Jack Wilshire, the talents there.

[Bing]

Jack Rodwell and Jack Wilshere need fast-tracking so that they are big parts of England's team at Euro 2012 (qualification permitting).

[Rovermatt]

I agree Matt, however I thought that they retained possession a lot better than England did, now this could be because of their movement which gave the person passing the ball a lot of options. In the first half they took England apart in a very clinical manner.

Yes I agree. I should have added that also. However Armfield and Pleat (two very serious football men) were making the point that England's players run to receive the ball rather than running into space to create angles for themselves and colleagues.

[USABlue]

Unacceptable, granted the 2nd goal would, in my opinion, have turned the game on it's head I think the Germans would have crumbled. However what happened after that was unacceptable, I was sat here expecting England to come out guns blazing after half time but they were non-chalant and lacked any desire or fight. This is what irks me the most, even back when we were poor and missed qualifying for tournaments it seems that we always played hard and with a fire in our bellies. What has ever happened to that. The goal line miss by the officials was deplorable but it wouldn't be a World Cup with out us going out on the back of a contentious decision. I hang my head in shame but if we are being honest with our performance we deserved nothing more. Well roll on the Euros, IF we can muster enough interest from our players to qualify. Perhaps by then the bad seed that is John Terry will have been outsted by a young starlet with the last name Jones.

[Hughesy]

The FA should be harsh and simply remove all players NOW who will not be around come Brazil....Terry, James, Heskey, Lampard, Beckham etc.

Start looking to build for the future - Rodwell, Wilshire, Adam Johnson etc

[LeChuck]

I think the number of posters saying they are Rovers first and England second really

I don't get why people say that crap at all, the two never cross so it's pointless saying anything.

It's like people are trying to score brownie points by saying stuff like that, as if it makes them a better supporter than the rest of us who follow both equally.

[67splitscreen]

The FA should be harsh and simply remove all players NOW who will not be around come Brazil....Terry, James, Heskey, Lampard, Beckham etc.

Start looking to build for the future - Rodwell, Wilshire, Adam Johnson etc

Also add the likes of Shawcross Catermole Sturridge and that young chap who plays for the local village team in Lancashire. Jones is it.

[rog of the rovers]

Danny Rose, Victor Moses, Kieran Gibbs, Tom Cleverley, Henri Lansbury, Phil Jones, Dan Sturridge, Nathan Delfounseo, Fabian Delph all got great potential

[thenodrog]

Five Live's pundits are spot on. The difference in movement and running off the ball is what separated the teams today, not the technique of individual players.

I've given you a brownie point matt. It would heve been a gold star if you and they had said as much before the tournament started.

[LeChuck]

Danny Rose, Victor Moses, Kieran Gibbs, Tom Cleverley, Henri Lansbury, Phil Jones, Dan Sturridge, Nathan Delfounseo, Fabian Delph all got great potential

Hmm...I'd be surprised if more than two of those ever pulled on an England shirt. I do like the look of Delfouneso, and Gibbs might find the left back his by default when the others get into their mid-thirties.

Jack Rodwell is our biggest hope I think, we desperately need someone of his ilk in midfield (unless, of course, he moves back to centre half). I think Wilshere and Smalling will be key members by the next tournament as well.

Walcott will hopefully come back stronger from this disappointment, he can only get better with Arsenal.

[Rover Down Under]

I think the number of posters saying they are Rovers first and England second really highlights a problem that we have in this country.

How can your local team mean more than national pride? It seems apparent with the team also.

Easy. England the footy team do not represent England the country anymore. I definitely fall into the category of club over country and have supported the Socceroos and All Whites this campaign because of where I now live and for the Rovers representation. England, the FA, the press and certain fans are so corrupt, arrogant and deluded that for the first time ever I was subconsciously referring to England in the third-person plural rather than the collective "we". England are like Liverpool, Newcastle and Spurs/Arse/Chelski rolled into one, delusions of grandeur + unreasonable sense of entitlement (with the "best" fans) + a serving of too much money and too little sense. Why support a collection of all the things I despise?

Now could someone please go to the airport and shower the players in Monopoly money when they get home, it would be a fitting tribute to the hopeless turds.

[neekoy]

Well England are going to need to play very well to progress through the cup, or start getting lucky.

Back in 1982, needing a two goal win over Spain and failed. But since then, we have had lots of chances to go on and win the Trophy, but had poor luck intervene.

1986-Maradonas punch, Linekers bizarre miss late on

1990-Lottery of penalties

1998 Lottery of penalties

2002 Seaman lobbed bizaarely

2006 Lottery of penalties

In all of these KO's, a seemingly easier run to win it loomed had we got through.

Not to mention the Euro 96,04 pens too.

I don't see how any of that is luck? Poor ref, no good enough to get the game in normal time or the players weren't good enough, I don;t see Lady Luck anywhere there.

[Mr. E]

the worst part of this whole thing is that Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard etc. will now go back to their clubs and start banging in the goals against Rovers, winning more trophies and cups, and shrugging off their world cup performance as no big deal.

A bit sickening really.

[Rovermatt]

Chris Waddle is perhaps the most realistic pundit on 5 Live. Listening to him this morning. The guy is genuinely p*ssed off.

[Clitherover]

Easy. England the footy team do not represent England the country anymore. I definitely fall into the category of club over country and have supported the Socceroos and All Whites this campaign because of where I now live and for the Rovers representation. England, the FA, the press and certain fans are so corrupt, arrogant and deluded that for the first time ever I was subconsciously referring to England in the third-person plural rather than the collective "we". England are like Liverpool, Newcastle and Spurs/Arse/Chelski rolled into one, delusions of grandeur + unreasonable sense of entitlement (with the "best" fans) + a serving of too much money and too little sense. Why support a collection of all the things I despise?

Now could someone please go to the airport and shower the players in Monopoly money when they get home, it would be a fitting tribute to the hopeless turds.

Australia is the best place for you by the sound of things, as far away from us as possible.

[LeChuck]

the worst part of this whole thing is that Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard etc. will now go back to their clubs and start banging in the goals

They probably will do.

Of course, it'll help that all three will go back to playing in their proper positions.

[neekoy]

They probably will do.

Of course, it'll help that all three will go back to playing in their proper positions.

and at least have players that cover their deficiencies

And

[LeChuck]

and at least have players that cover their deficiencies

That's what teams do, there isn't a player in the world that doesn't have deficiencies. Capello didn't manage to select a team that could get the best out of our good players.

And those three are good players, very good players. They've shown repeatedly for years that they are - four bad games in a crap England team doesn't change that.

[American]

Maradonna got trashed before the tournament for not selecting his best players. Watching them last night, though, they seem to have a great sense of team and country - no Terry, Anelka, et al who is complaining about lack of playing time, formation or amount of play. Even when Tevez didn't seem happy about being taken off, Diego gave him a big hug and said a few words to him, turning his disposition around.

[LeChuck]

Maradonna got trashed before the tournament for not selecting his best players.

Wasn't that just the likes of Zanetti and Cambiasso? Hardly star players in that team, just good squad players.

Maradona has set up that team to get the best out of his star attacking players - they all look comfortable in their positions.

That's in total contract to Capello's approach, where he has put square pegs in round holes all over the place to play 4-4-2.

[Majiball]

Lets wait till Argentina play a top, top team. I'm still not convinced on them defensively, we shall see when they play Germany.

[neekoy]

That's what teams do, there isn't a player in the world that doesn't have deficiencies. Capello didn't manage to select a team that could get the best out of our good players.

And those three are good players, very good players. They've shown repeatedly for years that they are - four bad games in a crap England team doesn't change that.

My point is that England didn't have any players that could do that, it wasn't the system, they qualified very well and had some very good results playing 4-4-2, it ultimately came down to the players across the park not actually being that good.

We will still have Eddie and Co proclaiming the "World Class" nature of individuals essentially as a team, the quality isn't that high, in fact it is almost forgettable.

Of course lesser footballing nations would love to have some of the names on paper but the overall quality is just not there.