Second Round (Last 16) Discussion

[FourLaneBlue]

Before Capello took charge we could not even qualify for Euro 2008.

I also think his tactics have left a lot to be desired but...really, there is something rotten at the core of English football.

Germany were taking the p!$$ so much it was actually quite funny in a grim, gallows-humour type way.

You could either laugh or cry watching that shambles.

[RibbleValleyRover]

well, all in all, I can't say I'm too surprised.

Many experts and analysts will now go on about how overrated England's players are, how they lacked commitment, how there's too many foreign players in the league, how the game would have been different had the goal stood, how they wore the wrong colored socks etc. etc.

But this will be akin to these experts looking at a world map in bewilderment trying to figure out where Russia is. It really is that bleeding obvious, but the truth will be ignored by most.

The answer is Capello and his tactics. I do not have the energy or the heart to go over his endless mistakes again, but I've been saying it before the start of each game. When you play the wrong formation, with the wrong players, and with the right players in wrong positions...you're going to get embarrassed. It's as simple as that. If Capello was in charge of Argentina or Brazil, you'd get the same results.

People will try to find a different answer because of his titles in Italy, but there is no excuse.

Several managers in a row have failed with this 'Golden Generation' its time to look at the players, pretty much the whole of that team needs to be scrapped and rebuilt, they just aren't good enough.

[Silencio]

The most sickening part for me is that for a good 20 minutes or so we completely outplayed them. The defending was a joke throughout, but for a while when we actually played with pace and moved the ball around we were totally on top.

HA HA HA HA

And they slaughtered us for the other 70. You really do make an idiot of yourself on here sometimes!

Answer this, do you still think Schweinsteiger and Muller would be behind Barry and Milner if they were English?

Oh, and would you still rather have Ince in charge of us than Allardyce?

[American]

There is a reason why no country has ever won the cup with a foreign manager. Once you get to this level with a good assistant for tactics, you really need someone who is going to fire up the troops.

[1864roverite]

out of negatives gthere will always come something positive.

Frankly, England were atrocious.

Thank God we wont have to witness the following wearing an England shirt again.

heskey - shyte

barry - woeful at best

lampard - anonymous

terry - shocking

upson - utter rubbish

carragher - shyte

king- useless

lennon - rubbish

james - past it although not at fault for any german goal

wright-phillips - rubbish

gerrard - rubbish

green - set the tone for our world cup effort - truly rubbish

it is now time to rebuild and move forwards.

[Darwen Rover]

Get Redknapp in!!

I am FUMING with both the players and the manager..

Players played with no passion or desire.. now theres no excuse whatsoever for that; irrespective of what their views are... They are wearing the hopes of every single Englishman and they let us all down REALLY BADLY!

I rated Capello, but what the hell is he playing at... clearly lost the dressing room and what happened with his tactics...

We were shambolic and I'm totally gutted that our so called golden generation was beat by the German u21 team!

Too many poor performances, Upson - three lisons more like a little kitten!! Two fullbacks to bloody laxi dazy!! Rooney - stop sulking man and grow some balls... we were humiliated and we need to go back to basics with a manager that has buy in of of his team..

As I started this post... Redknapp in!

Looking forward to start of the premiership now!!

[FourLaneBlue]

Here we go, some of the experts in this thread are already jumping with their nonesence.

I hope next season then we are expected to trash crap sides like Manchester United and Chelsea. Just look at their players - Rooney, Terry, Lampard .....absolute crap eh?

We can't all be footballing experts like you, Mr E.

England have consistently been poor at tournaments for years and years. Blaming Capello...that is just a small part of the problem.

These players just got humiliated in this tournament. Before Capello arrived they got humiliated in Euro 2008 qualifying. In 2006 they were woeful.

Hardly all down to Fabio now, is it?

[sambo]

HA HA HA HA

And they slaughtered us for the other 70. You really do make an idiot of yourself on here sometimes!

His point was : we CAN be good. But only when that set of @#/? can be arsed. Fabio is not the answer, can't speak English. Even David James said Fabio calls him 'keeper' not by his name. Awful all round, like a sick joke.

[MarkBRFC71]

Here we go, some of the experts in this thread are already jumping with their nonesence.

I hope next season then we are expected to trash crap sides like Manchester United and Chelsea. Just look at their players - Rooney, Terry, Lampard .....absolute crap eh?

Don't be a cretin. The best players in those teams are the foreigners, and the England players have shown in the last 2 weeks that their clubs and the paycheck means much more to them than playing for their country.

Our players are overrated - fact.

[rebelmswar]

Was Rooney injured or does Dark Lord of the Sith Ferguson cloud English players, who happen to play for Man U's, minds?

Pretty much expected this after the dire group stage performance.

[Mr. E]

We can't all be footballing experts like you, Mr E.

England have consistently been poor at tournaments for years and years. Blaming Capello...that is just a small part of the problem.

These players just got humiliated in this tournament. Before Capello arrived they got humiliated in Euro 2008 qualifying. In 2006 they were woeful.

Hardly all down to Fabio now, is it?

McLaren and Erickson were idiots too, yes. The fact that a lot of managers have failed doesn't mean that the fault doesn't lie with them. It means that a lot of managers have failed.

Give the team to someone who knows the English game and isn't a complete pansy and let's see what happens. Moyes would be my choice.

[FourLaneBlue]

McLaren and Erickson were idiots too, yes. The fact that a lot of managers have failed doesn't mean that the fault doesn't lie with them. It means that a lot of managers have failed.

Give the team to someone who knows the English game and isn't a complete pansy and let's see what happens. Moyes would be my choice.

BBC Sport's Alan Hansen

"I would say one thing - it didn't matter what system England had played today, they played so badly they would have been beaten in any formation."

I agree with that. Don't you?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Looks like we are going to get the usual 'the manager is the sole reason why we went out, he must go, we have world class players who should be doing better'.

The media, and people in general need to realise that these players just aren't good enough.

James- Not good enough.

Cole- Good enough.

Terry- Legs have gone not good enough.

Upson- Not good enough.

Johnson- No way good enough.

Milner- Not good enough (not consistent).

Barry- Not good enough.

Gerrard- Not good enough- Never brought club performances to International level.

Lampard- Not good enough- Never brought club performances to International level.

Rooney- Good enough- Problem is can you build a system around him? If not then you need to look elsewhere.

Defoe- Not good enough.

[Silencio]

McLaren and Erickson were idiots too, yes. The fact that a lot of managers have failed doesn't mean that the fault doesn't lie with them. It means that a lot of managers have failed.

Give the team to someone who knows the English game and isn't a complete pansy and let's see what happens. Moyes would be my choice.

I don't doubt we could do a little better with another manager but we will never get much further until we have players with better technique.

The players you mention are all international class players who can do ok at the top level but they are not world class. Rooney might be but he hasn't shown it for England since 2004. He wasn't much cop in the Champions League finals either...

[Mr. E]

As much as the tactics left something to be desired on occasion, the players are vastly overrated on a world stage - that's the major reason for our failure.

Yes.

"something to be desired on occasion"

And Heskey is almost as good as Messi, but not quite. Like a lot of Heskey's qualities are similar or even better than Messi's, but I'd still pick Messi overall.

[Gav]

I rated Capello, but what the hell is he playing at... clearly lost the dressing room and what happened with his tactics...

What about the players?

100k+ a week on average and can't pass? can't shoot, can't beat Algeria, don't care....

Blame the players, not the manager.

[American]

Disagree about Cashley. Thought Lampard played well, also.

[Mr. E]

BBC Sport's Alan Hansen

"I would say one thing - it didn't matter what system England had played today, they played so badly they would have been beaten in any formation."

I agree with that. Don't you?

That is pretty much the stupidest thing anyone can possibly conceive of saying. Like, no. It is not true. Simply, no.

[Gav]

Looks like we are going to get the usual 'the manager is the sole reason why we went out, he must go, we have world class players who should be doing better'.

The media, and people in general need to realise that these players just aren't good enough.

James- Not good enough.

Cole- Good enough.

Terry- Legs have gone not good enough.

Upson- Not good enough.

Johnson- No way good enough.

Milner- Not good enough (not consistent).

Barry- Not good enough.

Gerrard- Not good enough- Never brought club performances to International level.

Lampard- Not good enough- Never brought club performances to International level.

Rooney- Good enough- Problem is can you build a system around him?

Defoe- Not good enough.

I agree with most of what you say, but Rooney needs to hang his head in shame for his outburst against the fans, and his performances have been poor, very poor, so he's not good enough for the national side.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Fair point. I know from experience that the English coaching system is far more interested in finding athletes and trying to make them into footballers, rather than getting players with genuine talent and trying to make them more athletic. There's little interest in players who are more slightly built but with bags of technique, guile and skill. Would Messi have go through the English system? No chance, we wouldn't have done what Barca did in terms of nurturing him.

We should clear out all the old guard in the FA, and get a delegation over to Barcelona for as long as it takes for their methods to become the norm in this country. Something needs to be done about the money distribution in the Prem too - it promotes teams to be defensive, and promotes kick and rush football, the kind that Rovers are unfortunately one of the key proponents of. That kind of play needs big, athletic players, and leaves little room for skilful, tricky players.

We will never do anything internationally without massive, massive changes throughout the whole English game.

Oh, and I would force the whole squad to travel back to England on a fooking minibus.

Mini-bus !!!!! I'd make 'em walk it, via Afghanistan.

[Billy Castell]

The following players should never, ever play for England again: John Terry, Matthew Upson, Emile Heskey, Frank Lampard, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Joe Cole and Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney should be on the bench for the next few games. As I have said before, we need a purge of all the egotistical tossers, and let us start from scratch. Even if that means seeing Kevin Davies play!

As for the manager.......................the only man who can sort it all out has just moved to Real Madrid. Although he'll play that clown Terry.

(Apologies if you've just read this on another thread).

[RibbleValleyRover]

I agree with most of what you say, but Rooney needs to hang his head in shame for his outburst against the fans, and his performances have been poor, very poor, so he's not good enough for the national side.

I agree his behaviour was totally unacceptable. I think going to this tournament he was out of form and had not fully recovered from his injuries.

Looking at the bigger picture i will get slated for it but if we are incapable of getting the best out of him, whether that is due to tactics or players then they shouldn't be playing him. At United he has better quality players around him and the system is built around him, he just doesn't get that at England.

[Mr. E]

and to make it clear, it is obvious that the players were a let down too - Johnson and Barry especially - but does anyone believe that Argentina or Brazil would put in a better performance if they were given an absolutely nonsensical formation? Or if Argentina started playing upfront with a fat useless turd who "has good movement" ?

I mean, give me an example where players have prevailed despite the worst formation they could possibly be put in.

[FourLaneBlue]

That is pretty much the stupidest thing anyone can possibly conceive of saying. Like, no. It is not true. Simply, no.

Damn right. What does Capello know? What does a European-cup winner like Hansen know?

Let's sack Capello and get Mr.E to run the national team. He knows it all.

Oh, and remember, anybody who disagrees with what he is says is stupid and talking "nonesence[sic]".

[MarkBRFC71]

Damn right. What does Capello know? What does a European-cup winner like Hansen know?

Let's sack Capello and get Mr.E to run the national team. He knows it all.

Oh, and remember, anybody who disagrees with what he is says is stupid and talking "nonesence[sic]".

Lol. But 100% correct.