Capello'S Future

[broadsword]

1. We didn't really did we?

2. Tiredness is bullsh1t. Look at the other Prem stars who are excelling. Tevez for example didn't look tired did he?

If tiredness is to be used as an excuse then it can only be down to extra games played in the champions league..... A point I've already touched upon. If that is the case then stuff the filthy lucre lets cancel our countries qualifying clubs entry into the Champions league every time it is a World or European year. Anybody agree?

I think it was a much improved performance, that's for sure. I thought it was an acceptable level we played out without looking like world cup winners. Regardless, we then regressed from that to the Algeria game level ... that can't be tiredness.

And yes, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't wash at all.

[JAL]

The execuse....tiredness seems to be an FA directive rolled out to communicate to the nation done through their £6m man.

[American]

You are quite keen to throw £12m down the drain. I would be telling him to sort it out rather than give him a big payoff.

It wasn't quite an aberration. We scored two goals in 54 seconds after playing pretty poorly, and we exited only one round earlier than usual. He will now know who he can rely on. I wouldn't be surprised if he made quite a few changes. He will be working to restore his reputation, it's been quite a while since he has "failed".

The only reason he won the title his last season at Madrid was because he was forced to play Beckham because of injuries after saying he would never play again for Madrid.

Also, LeChuck, shocked that no one has challenged you, but didn't Uruguay play 4-4-2 and aren't they in the quarterfinals? Argentina looked to be playing a diamond as well.

[Majiball]

Beckham earnt his place back in the team at Madrid and kept it by working his socks off on the training ground, to prove to Capello he wasn't just a media boy. Why do you think Capello went to such lengths to find him a club and everything else after getting the England job.

[tony gale's mic]

4-4-2 is no more right or wrong a formation than any other of the main formations. With the right players a 4-4-2 could be very successful. It's a very English formation. However it relies on having strong wide players and good target men up front, neither of which we had. Look at players like Beckham and Shearer, excellent players very much in the English mould in that their style of football was very direct; Beckham didn't beat players but whipped great crosses in, Shearer didn't link up with midfield much but sure as hell knew where the goal was.

The problem isn't that 4-4-2 is outdated, with the right players it'd work just fine. But our players don't suit the 4-4-2. It needs your two best midfielders to be a combination of one great attacking midfielder and one great defensive midfielder. We took Ince and Scholes to France '98 and we were pretty decent in midfield. Up front it's a mess as we have Rooney who even on his day doesn't fit into a 4-4-2 very well as he's someone who links between midfield and attack rather than being an out and out striker. Heskey plain doesn't score and doesn't create enough either. We have Crouch who may be 6 ft 7 but is better with his feet than with his head and as such we have noone to aim crosses at, and even if we did noone to deliver them as we have wide players who are much more suited to getting to the byeline and cutting the ball back rather than getting Beckham style crosses into the box. Problem is they're not even that good at that. This all creates pressure on our central midfield to make something happen rather than just keep posession, which is why you see Lampard trying about eight million shots from outside the box and Gerrard attempting the Hollywood ball through to Rooney.

The 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation you see the top clubs in the Premier League using is one the players themselves are used to playing. With that in place we could have Gerrard, Lampard and a holding midfielder (though god knows who) allowing them to go forward, with two wingers either side supporting Rooney. It allows us to substitute Heskey for a midfielder effectively which basically gives us an extra player on the pitch most days and stops us from being so overrun in midfield.

However if we had the likes of Shearer, Beckham and (though he was a terrible manager) Paul Ince all playing for England right now then I'd probably be a lot more supportive of the 4-4-2 idea.

[TugaysMarlboro]

I'm not really sure where to begin in all honesty. Tactically inept, players not turning up, and the same old excuses which don't wash with any English national whether they like football or not.

It's got to start from the top and sift its way down. Apart from Euro '96 I think the England team have progressively worsened since Italia '90. The players don't care about England, because England don't pay their astronomical wages and for most of the 23 that went, that's what matters the most.

[tony gale's mic]

I'm not really sure where to begin in all honesty. Tactically inept, players not turning up, and the same old excuses which don't wash with any English national whether they like football or not.

It's got to start from the top and sift its way down. Apart from Euro '96 I think the England team have progressively worsened since Italia '90. The players don't care about England, because England don't pay their astronomical wages and for most of the 23 that went, that's what matters the most.

I think people tend to overrate Italia '90 and underrate WC 2002 if anything. Italia '90 we had an unconvincing group stage, followed by scraping past Belgium and Cameroon after extra time. Yes we went out on penalties to the Germans but our play in that World Cup up until then hadn't warranted a final appearance.

In WC2002 we had a tough group with Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria, beat Argentina more comfortably than the 1-0 scoreline suggested, thrashed a Denmark side who were much better than they are now and for most of the first half against Brazil looked relatively comfortable. Granted we were poor second half but even if Brazil had 10 men that wasn't the biggest disgrace in the world. When Owen slotted home against Brazil it's the only time I've felt we could genuinely win the World Cup, and given we had Turkey and a deeply average German side waiting for us (the same one we'd thrashed less than a year earlier and who had a very lucky ride to the final) if we won that game we may well have done.

[tcj_jones]

4-4-2 is no more right or wrong a formation than any other of the main formations. With the right players a 4-4-2 could be very successful...

This is a good post. Many scoffed at Ancelotti's 4-4-2 diamond formation, but Chelsea's players are perfectly suited to it and they were very good last season.

[67splitscreen]

Is there an official ranking of my posts on this site? It seems like some people get a bit too obsessed.

Last time I checked, you were running away with the Blue square and already relegated in the Prem.

[DP]

This is a good post. Many scoffed at Ancelotti's 4-4-2 diamond formation, but Chelsea's players are perfectly suited to it and they were very good last season.

Very good points.

You should always pick the formation and tactics to suit the players/squad you have at your disposal. And that doesn't mean picking all your best players and then deciding on the formation afterwards.

Capello didn't do this, and was tactically inept when coming up against a very inexperienced German side.

He should already be gone, but also whoever decided to remove the clause from his contract should also be fired.

As for tiredness..... how many games has 31 year old Forlan played this season following his Uefa cup success?

[gumboots]

Plus, nobody has mentioned on here about the players not getting on with one another yet another big question.

Think I did a few pages back. the John Terry affair has cast long shadows which didn't have that big an impact on the squad for individual matches but cooped up together for several weeks, all the resentment you feel towards any other player for whatever reason will ocme out.

all this about what formation we play passes me by in that you only notice the formation whenit doesn't work. If we had played players who could play 4-4-2 then we wouldn't have given it a second thought. With the best teams it's often difficult to see what formation they are actually playing.

[JAL]

Think I did a few pages back. the John Terry affair has cast long shadows which didn't have that big an impact on the squad for individual matches but cooped up together for several weeks, all the resentment you feel towards any other player for whatever reason will ocme out.

all this about what formation we play passes me by in that you only notice the formation whenit doesn't work. If we had played players who could play 4-4-2 then we wouldn't have given it a second thought. With the best teams it's often difficult to see what formation they are actually playing.

My apologies gumboots, there certainly seemed to be divisions between the main London boys and the scousers, but one would supspect we will never know the full extent of this until an autobiography is trotted out by one of the squad members.

On formations when a teams players are running fast, interchanging all the time it can be difficult to assess what is the formation but at the end of the day its only a general frame work for the players to work in.

Englands all round lack of pace made it so easy for the Germans, they must be wetting themselves at how easy England were to overcome.

[accyrover]

It doesn't (or didn't) look like a harmonious squad to me. Too many players factions. Also, look at all the press stories about Gerrard aledgedly getting a 16 year old pregnant, the Terry affair, Rooney just becoming a dad (and therefore probabaly homesick), Ashley Cole splitting with Cheryl etc etc. At least under Sven you just had him knobbing about. Now its the whole team.

Perhaps someone should remind our team of national footballers that they are there to play football.

Accyrover

[pg]

If you won't Capello we (Australia) would gladly take him off your hands.

If you decide to sack the manager and go English again...why do you think things will automatically improve?

Capello's record is currently the best of any English manager in history (28 matches, 19 wins, 4 draws, 5 losses).

I'm not suggesting he wasn't at fault and that some of his tactical decisions could be improve, however you also have to face the fact that your team is full of useless players and none of your main strikers during the World Cup showed any scoring ability whatsoever.

It would be sensible to let him learn from his mistakes, qualify for Euro 2012 and see how he goes. If no noticeable improvement occurs then let him go.

Saying that you would somehow win the World Cup playing 4-5-1 instead of 4-4-2 is puzzling as it wouldn't have made your defence or keeper any stronger.

Secondly, if the players actually did as they were told and kept their shape instead of running around like headless chickens, you may have had a chance. England played a lop-sided 3-5-2 against Germany. You had two centrebacks, Johnson at right back, Cole playing left wing and Gerrard running around like a muppet. All your good attacking moves came down the right (thanks to Milner and Johnson) and most of the German attacks came down your left (because Cole was playing winger instead of right back because Gerrard was farting about). It reminded me of watching the Rovers when we had no left winger.

But honestly, how far do you expect to get in a World Cup when none of your strikers seem to be able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo.

I want England to do well at a World Cup because unlike half the teams you actually try and play football instead of rolling around on the ground all day clutching your face when someone taps you on the shin.

I didn't see many of the qualification games, but I'm curious as to what midfielders played where in some of those games.

[gumboots]

If you won't Capello we (Australia) would gladly take him off your hands.

If you decide to sack the manager and go English again...why do you think things will automatically improve?

Capello's record is currently the best of any English manager in history (28 matches, 19 wins, 4 draws, 5 losses).

I'm not suggesting he wasn't at fault and that some of his tactical decisions could be improve, however you also have to face the fact that your team is full of useless players and none of your main strikers during the World Cup showed any scoring ability whatsoever.

It would be sensible to let him learn from his mistakes, qualify for Euro 2012 and see how he goes. If no noticeable improvement occurs then let him go.

Saying that you would somehow win the World Cup playing 4-5-1 instead of 4-4-2 is puzzling as it wouldn't have made your defence or keeper any stronger.

Secondly, if the players actually did as they were told and kept their shape instead of running around like headless chickens, you may have had a chance. England played a lop-sided 3-5-2 against Germany. You had two centrebacks, Johnson at right back, Cole playing left wing and Gerrard running around like a muppet. All your good attacking moves came down the right (thanks to Milner and Johnson) and most of the German attacks came down your left (because Cole was playing winger instead of right back because Gerrard was farting about). It reminded me of watching the Rovers when we had no left winger.

But honestly, how far do you expect to get in a World Cup when none of your strikers seem to be able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo.

I want England to do well at a World Cup because unlike half the teams you actually try and play football instead of rolling around on the ground all day clutching your face when someone taps you on the shin.

I didn't see many of the qualification games, but I'm curious as to what midfielders played where in some of those games.

the problem is that you and I and most football fans can see where the problems were and had been able to see them for years. The players are not as good as they, Sky and the rest of the media would have us believe. We don't have one decent out and out goalscorer. The players' egos get in the way of their actually learning anything. The core players are virtually guaranteed their places because if we don't play well and they've been dropped there's an outcry to get them back. The list of problems is endless. Capello is paid an enormous salary to try to sort those problems out. He can't put them all right, but the ones that are within his control he showed few real signs of being able to deal with.

In qualifying the most the players have to do is tolerate one another and the manager for a few days and then off they go to their nice cosy little club bubbles. In a tournament every grievance, every bit of discontent, every managerial decision you don't like, every poor pass in training becomes so much more important and you've no outlet for it. You can't go home and kick the cat or take the wife to bed or whatever it is that gets rid of the frustration you feel, and so you go onto the field fed up and you come off even more so. Other teams seem to cope with it but then other teams start going to tournaments at U19 etc and their clubs have to release them. They learn tournament play over a number of competitions - they learn coping strategies and are better prepared.

[BuckyRover]

Very good points.

You should always pick the formation and tactics to suit the players/squad you have at your disposal. And that doesn't mean picking all your best players and then deciding on the formation afterwards.

Capello didn't do this, and was tactically inept when coming up against a very inexperienced German side.

He should already be gone, but also whoever decided to remove the clause from his contract should also be fired.

As for tiredness..... how many games has 31 year old Forlan played this season following his Uefa cup success?

He hasn't played any Premiership games by my reckoning. Ancelotti has always played the same formation, as has Capello. I don't understand your point.

He won't be sacked, he has a good record.

[joey_big_nose]

It's not the going out that is the disaster - it's the manner of our doing it. The fact that the players underperformed almost without exception. The fact that a guy paid 6 million pounds a year couldn't get basic tactics any better than they were. The fact that none of the players really looked like they knew what they were doing on a football pitch let alone how to pass the ball to a teammate. No we do not have the right to get to the quarters. we don't even have a right to qualify (although that should be a reasonable expectation) but what we, the public, do have a right to expect is that somewhere along the line someone actually stops making excuses and starts trying to put right at least some of the things that are currently wrong and that someone is held to account for the shambles that has been our football team for some time now. When was the last time you consistently enjoyed watching England play? For me I think it was about 30-40 years ago.

The main reason I would say we consistently under perform is that we have unrealistic expectations about what England can achieve combined with a hysterical approach to team building which lurches from disaster to moderate success to disaster. Our national team setup is very similar to Newcastle or Spurs in that lives in perpetual crisis fuled by deluded ideas about what we can achieve.

Until the fans grow up I doubt we will manage to get together the consistency to build a team over time. Capello will probably be sacked now, and someone of a similar quality (or probably worse) will be brought in. The players will be swapped around. Nothing will change.

Exactly the same scenario as after Sven and McClaren. We are the architechts of our own mediocrity imo. Sad.

[Steve Moss]

I vote for Abbey as next manager

Seconded.

golden generation ,my arse ...more like brasso penetration.

I was thinking the pyrite generation.

[Eddie]

The main reason I would say we consistently under perform is that we have unrealistic expectations about what England can achieve combined with a hysterical approach to team building which lurches from disaster to moderate success to disaster. Our national team setup is very similar to Newcastle or Spurs in that lives in perpetual crisis fuled by deluded ideas about what we can achieve.

Until the fans grow up I doubt we will manage to get together the consistency to build a team over time. Capello will probably be sacked now, and someone of a similar quality (or probably worse) will be brought in. The players will be swapped around. Nothing will change.

Exactly the same scenario as after Sven and McClaren. We are the architechts of our own mediocrity imo. Sad.

We really don't though. The players underperformed. They didn't play to their best and lose, they underperformed.

[MarkBRFC71]

We really don't though. The players underperformed. They didn't play to their best and lose, they underperformed.

The players didn't underperform. They performed as well as they could - it's just that they are miles behind the best in the world technically, and are vastly overrated by Sky/the English press.

The 'best' English players look good in club teams where they are surrounded by foreigners, but you cannot get away with more than one or two players with the English 'run all day', 'give 110%' etc etc mentality - you need the class, guile and intelligence that foreign players are bought in to provide to make teams effective.

If you were to compile a list of the best '11' players in the Premier League (let's say a 4-5-1 formation since as that seems to be the most popular at present), how many would be English? Any at all? That, and the fact that no English players of any note play abroad says all you need to know about the dearth of decent players.

[joey_big_nose]

We really don't though. The players underperformed. They didn't play to their best and lose, they underperformed.

I would say that it is exactly the same reason that excellent players go to Newcastle or Spurs and underperform. Overheated and unrealistic pressure makes it incredibly difficult to create stability and a team. The players and management get nervous. This then translates into poor football. Manager gets sacked, players get dropped. Cycle repeats itself ad infiniteum.

[Eddie]

The players didn't underperform. They performed as well as they could - it's just that they are miles behind the best in the world technically, and are vastly overrated by Sky/the English press.

The 'best' English players look good in club teams where they are surrounded by foreigners, but you cannot get away with more than one or two players with the English 'run all day', 'give 110%' etc etc mentality - you need the class, guile and intelligence that foreign players are bought in to provide to make teams effective.

If you were to compile a list of the best '11' players in the Premier League (let's say a 4-5-1 formation since as that seems to be the most popular at present), how many would be English? Any at all? That, and the fact that no English players of any note play abroad says all you need to know about the dearth of decent players.

That's nonsense. Many of the England players have formed integral parts of very good premier league and champions league sides and they haven't only managed this because they play alongside foreigners.

[Amo]

I do think sacking Capello will only serve to absolve the current generation of England players of their responsibility... YET AGAIN. But if you keep him, will he have the gall to drop the big-name underachievers? I thought Rooney should have been dropped after the Algeria game for his pathetic outburst and overall ineptitude. If anything, it would have given him a kick up the ass. But despite Capello's talk about picking players on-form etc. he still kept the same untouchables in his starting eleven.

[DE.]

I do think sacking Capello will only serve to absolve the current generation of England players of their responsibility... YET AGAIN. But if you keep him, will he have the gall to drop the big-name underachievers? I thought Rooney should have been dropped after the Algeria game for his pathetic outburst and overall ineptitude. If anything, it would have given him a kick up the ass. But despite Capello's talk about picking players on-form etc. he still kept the same untouchables in his starting eleven.

The only way Capello can go forward in this job, if he does stay on, is to drop a lot of the players that have been such a huge disappointment since 2004. The last tournament we looked like a genuinely good team in was 2002. Since then the national team has gone backwards at an alarming rate. I wouldn't want Terry, Upson, Carragher, Lampard, Beckham, Heskey, Rio, or SWP anywhere near the Euro 2012 squad - not on the pitch, not on the bench, not as "advisors" - they need to move aside and give some other players a shot because they've proven time and time again they're not up to the task. If Capello has the balls to drop most of those players then it may be worth keeping him to see if he's learnt from the mistakes of this campaign. Give players like Dawson, Adam Johnson, Crouch, Bent, Walcott, perhaps even Phil Jones if he keeps up his current form a chance to show the passion and pride that our current "superstars" lack.

Fact is, players like Terry, Upson, Lampard, Rio and even Heskey are at an age where they might still make one more tournament in 2012. If they do, it will have been a mistake to keep Capello on.

[Mr. E]

Capello's comments that England's youngsters don't have talent is absolutely scandalous and shocking. Even managers of much smaller nations with much fewer resources wouldn't allow themselves to say such a thing. He should be fined before being fired. He is fast becoming one of the worst things to ever happen to the national team.