[Archived] Raoul Moat

[Steve Moss]

In America they probably would have shot him dead by now.

If a weapon was in his hand and they hand a clear shot, yes they would have blasted him without a second thought. And rightfully so.

Rum do this. No one appears to bother about me being outed yet Jim's real name is protected on here like a state secret.

Don't worry about it too much. Privacy in today's day and age is more or less an illusion. My name is Steve Moss, if it makes you feel better.

[jim mk2]

If a weapon was in his hand and they hand a clear shot, yes they would have blasted him without a second thought. And rightfully so.

Rightfully not so. This is England where we do things differently and where (thankfully) gun crime is relatively rare. Our policeman do not routinely carry guns in the street because they do not need to do so, which is something we are proud of.

[Steve Moss]

Rightfully not so. This is England where we do things differently and where (thankfully) gun crime is relatively rare. Our policeman do not routinely carry guns in the street because they do not need to do so, which is something we are proud of.

I'm happy that you are happy with the way things are in England. But in Arizona (and most of the USA) if a person has a firearm in his hand, that person has employed deadly force and it is appropriate to respond with deadly force. Speculating as to his horrible childhood and mental state are besides the point so long as he has possession of a deadly weapon. Which was the reference point of the comment that I was responding to.

[jim mk2]

I'm happy that you are happy with the way things are in England. But in Arizona (and most of the USA) if a person has a firearm in his hand, that person has employed deadly force and it is appropriate to respond with deadly force. Speculating as to his horrible childhood and mental state are besides the point so long as he has possession of a deadly weapon. Which was the reference point of the comment that I was responding to.

I am very happy that you are happy with that state of affairs. I would suggest that shooting first and asking questions later is not always the best or the right response. I did not follow this case very closely but as far as I am aware Moat posed a threat to no one but himself in his final moments. I do not see why in his case "deadly force" should have been met with "deadly force".

[Steve Moss]

I am very happy that you are happy with that state of affairs. I would suggest that shooting first and asking questions later is not always the best or the right response. I did not follow this case very closely but as far as I am aware Moat posed a threat to no one but himself in his final moments. I do not see why in his case "deadly force" should have been met with "deadly force".

Shooting first and asking questions later is the best response in only a very limited number of scenarios. Though I suspect that we would have a difference of opinion as to the appropriate frequency of such a response.

As to Moat posing no danger at the end, that's the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. So far as I can determine, Moat murdered one person, tried to murder 2 others, declared war on the police and the public and was in possession of a deadly weapon which he refused to relinquish. "Rabid dog" would be an apt description in my book.

As to the police having him cornered, no one can maintain 24/7 vigilance. Despite being covered (I assume) by snipers, etc., after a period the initiative actually passed to Moat, in that the police would not have fired until he made a move. In other words, if Moat was competent with a firearm, had a steady nerve and a clear shot (none of which I know), Moat might have been able to kill at least one more police officer before being killed himself.

Shooting him would have been, in my opinion, the most practical and safest way of handling the situation. You folks got lucky in that the damage was as limited as it was.

[Ewood and I Would]

My name is Steve Moss, if it makes you feel better.

Your brother's a legend!

[jim mk2]

Shooting first and asking questions later is the best response in only a very limited number of scenarios. Though I suspect that we would have a difference of opinion as to the appropriate frequency of such a response.

As to Moat posing no danger at the end, that's the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. So far as I can determine, Moat murdered one person, tried to murder 2 others, declared war on the police and the public and was in possession of a deadly weapon which he refused to relinquish. "Rabid dog" would be an apt description in my book.

As to the police having him cornered, no one can maintain 24/7 vigilance. Despite being covered (I assume) by snipers, etc., after a period the initiative actually passed to Moat, in that the police would not have fired until he made a move. In other words, if Moat was competent with a firearm, had a steady nerve and a clear shot (none of which I know), Moat might have been able to kill at least one more police officer before being killed himself.

Shooting him would have been, in my opinion, the most practical and safest way of handling the situation. You folks got lucky in that the damage was as limited as it was.

As far as I am aware Moat in his final hours did not threaten a member of the public or the police force and was in conversation with the police who were trying to get him to give himself up. Just because he has killed someone and is possession of a weapon does not mean that he has to be gunned down in cold blood. Our police thankfully generally behave in a more responsible manner and it is why the killing of the unfortunate Brazilian chap on the London underground a few years ago was such a shock and caused such a furore here.

[thenodrog]

As far as I am aware Moat in his final hours did not threaten a member of the public or the police force and was in conversation with the police who were trying to get him to give himself up.

I believe the police did offer him advice and training on firearms at the time..... but like most good advice these days it just went in one ear and out of the other.

[Steve Moss]

Your brother's a legend!

At a guess, Jon Moss of the Culture Club? I say that as I have a younger brother, also named Jon, who is running for our local Justice of the Peace. I constantly ask him if George has called or if they're still on the outs.

[Ewood Spark]

At a guess, Jon Moss of the Culture Club? I say that as I have a younger brother, also named Jon, who is running for our local Justice of the Peace. I constantly ask him if George has called or if they're still on the outs.

I take it you're not 'au fait' with 'The IT Crowd'?

[BPF]

As far as I am aware Moat in his final hours did not threaten a member of the public or the police force and was in conversation with the police who were trying to get him to give himself up. Just because he has killed someone and is possession of a weapon does not mean that he has to be gunned down in cold blood. Our police thankfully generally behave in a more responsible manner and it is why the killing of the unfortunate Brazilian chap on the London underground a few years ago was such a shock and caused such a furore here.

1. I'm glad he's dead

2. He deserved to die

3. I'm glad that 0% of the tax I have to pay will be going towards his free food, accomodation or Psychiatrist fees.

[thenodrog]

Forget that murderer and save your sympathies for these.....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/07/20/250-ww1-heroes-are-finally-laid-to-rest-but-only-one-brit-can-be-identified-115875-22425831/

or these

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2009/casualties/default.stm

[T4E]

you're just a ginger midget who plays golf.

Gordon got murked.

[Dunnfc]

I hear Gazza has checked himself into rehab this week, good luck to him i say. I loved and idolised this guy as i grew up as soon as the euro 96 kit came out my dad got me gazza on it. my brother got beckham.

I had posters of Gazza on my walls our brother had Beckham, i hope one day Paul can come out the other side like Maradona did.

[thenodrog]

I hear Gazza has checked himself into rehab this week, good luck to him i say. I loved and idolised this guy as i grew up as soon as the euro 96 kit came out my dad got me gazza on it. my brother got beckham.

I had posters of Gazza on my walls our brother had Beckham, i hope one day Paul can come out the other side like Maradona did.

I'd be amazed if he does.

[SamTheShrew]

Sadly Gascoigne is a Best waiting to happen

[Ewood and I Would]

At a guess, Jon Moss of the Culture Club? I say that as I have a younger brother, also named Jon, who is running for our local Justice of the Peace. I constantly ask him if George has called or if they're still on the outs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNJktIMrWwk&feature=related