[Archived] Warning

[MarkBRFC71]

There are times when exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe and acceptable, and times when driving at or just under the limit is totally unacceptable. Cameras cannot discriminate in the same way that a police officer can.

Thankfully now we've got a proper Government and the country isn't being run by a bumbling imbecile, we're seeing the beginnings of long overdue changes being made with the removal of the majority of cameras, most of which were positioned more with revenue generation in mind than preventing accidents. Let's be honest, if they were all about safety why wasn't there one outside every school?

Hopefully the next stage will the total elimination of policing by proxy (cameras) and then reintroduction of more police cars and officers on the roads, but I fear Labour has left the nation in such a state financially that there'll be no money left for that.

[dave birch]

There are times when exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe and acceptable,

Name one.

If it's safe to speed, then it's safe to drive at the limit applicable.

[MarkBRFC71]

Name one.

If it's safe to speed, then it's safe to drive at the limit applicable.

I'm driving home after working late, in clear, dry conditions say at 11pm on the motorway. Apart from the odd truck there's virtually no other traffic. Does it really make any difference whether I'm doing 70 or 85?

Similarly while doing 30 past a school at 11pm might be fine, doing the same at 8.30am on a Monday would be a bit irresponsible IMO.

Of course some people are blinkered into thinking that if you do 30 you are a saint, yet as soon as you go to 31 you are a child-murderer.

[jim mk2]

There are times when exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe and acceptable, and times when driving at or just under the limit is totally unacceptable.

Exceeding the speed limit is never acceptable and is always unnecessary. It's this kind of selfish attitude that is typical of a certain type of driver who considers that he is above the law and who often considers that there should be no laws governing driving at all.

Speed cameras have saved lives and where they are in place will continue to save lives from dangerous drivers such as the one above - motoring organisations, safety groups and most important of all the police acknowledge that their presence has led to a reduction in deaths on the road in the past decade.

Speed cameras were also never about revenue generation according to the popular myth. If that were the case speed cameras would not now be in the process of being turned off because their funding has been withdrawn because of the unnecessary cuts in government spending. The Tories will have blood on the hands when the death toll inevitably starts to rise again.

There are only 2 ways to make idiot drivers such as the above obey the law - speed bumps and 20mph limits on all urban roads and average speed cameras on all motorways and A roads. When Cameron is kicked out at the next election Labour will hopefully continue their good work of 1997 - 2010 in making the roads a safer place for responsible drivers.

[MarkBRFC71]

Exceeding the speed limit is never acceptable and is always unnecessary. It's this kind of selfish attitude that is typical of a certain type of driver who considers that he is above the law and who often considers that there should be no laws governing driving at all.

Speed cameras have saved lives and where they are in place will continue to save lives from dangerous drivers such as the one above - motoring organisations, safety groups and most important of all the police acknowledge that their presence has led to a reduction in deaths on the road in the past decade.

Speed cameras were also never about revenue generation according to the popular myth. If that were the case speed cameras would not now be in the process of being turned off because their funding has been withdrawn because of the unnecessary cuts in government spending. The Tories will have blood on the hands when the death toll inevitably starts to rise again.

There are only 2 ways to make idiot drivers such as the above obey the law - speed bumps and 20mph limits on all urban roads and average speed cameras on all motorways and A roads. When Cameron is kicked out at the next election Labour will hopefully continue their good work of 1997 - 2010 in making the roads a safer place for responsible drivers.

A rather predictably insulting and misguided response, and a thinly-veiled Labour soapbox moment for our resident miserable old git.

The article linked below neatly sums up the problem - the current blanket camera approach is turning drivers into automatons, who think they are safe because they drive within speed limits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/2747604/Scrap-speed-cameras-now.html

[Amo]

Most drivers out there are always in a hurry these days. They have no tact, no patience and no courtesy. There's a zebra crossing near the traffic lights, and if the lights up ahead are green 9/10 times the drivers will never stop to let you cross. Kinda pisses me of, rly.

[MarkBRFC71]

Most drivers out there are always in a hurry these days. They have no tact, no patience and no courtesy. There's a zebra crossing near the traffic lights, and if the lights up ahead are green 9/10 times the drivers will never stop to let you cross. Kinda pisses me of, rly.

But according to some on here, if they're going below 30 it's not a problem?

[den]

A rather predictably insulting and misguided response, and a thinly-veiled Labour soapbox moment for our resident miserable old git.

The article linked below neatly sums up the problem - the current blanket camera approach is turning drivers into automatons, who think they are safe because they drive within speed limits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/2747604/Scrap-speed-cameras-now.html

So, take away all the speed camera's and there will be no problem because we will all become better drivers?

[MarkBRFC71]

So, take away all the speed camera's and there will be no problem because we will all become better drivers?

Obviously not, and you seem to not have got the point of the article.

Instead of wasting money on speed cameras which have little or no impact on road safety, invest the money in better and more driver and pedestrian training and education.

Labour and their nanny-state idiots have turned many in this country into mindless zombies, unable to think or act for themselves and who need every aspect of their life spelling out with a rule or guideline. Thank God we're rid of them - and it'll be at least 2 elections before there's any chance of them getting back in given the range of spineless, charisma free suits they've lined up to replace Gordy. I mean the Millibands?! Lol. And Ed Balls?? His name alone should rule him out. I can't even remember the woman which says everything about how much impact she might have.

[LeChuck]

Mark's link is sharing a similar philosophy with the 'shared space' idea that is gaining support in Europe. Basically you remove all road signs, traffic lights etc, and leave it to individuals to make decisions based on 'mutual consideration'.

I believe Drachten was the first town to implement it, and I think I'm right in saying it lowered their accident count to almost zero. There are plenty of stories knocking around on Google.

Another Telegraph link; a similar idea is used in Asthon

[den]

Obviously not, and you seem to not have got the point of the article.

Instead of wasting money on speed cameras which have little or no impact on road safety, invest the money in better and more driver and pedestrian training and education.

Errr, that's what I just asked. So do away with speed camera's and teach everyone to do what exactly? Well seeing as you mentioned pedestrian training, I suppose we could train them to jump out of the way of the young D1ckheads a bit quicker, that fly around Leyland at whatever speed they care. Nah mate, what these lads need is more camera's and more police to make them slow down. - Well preferably more Police, because the camera's were there to replace the police weren't they? The answer from a lot of people seems to be no speed control at all.

[ABBEY]

It must be difficult for some people to slow down from 50mph to 30 mph when there are whacking great road signs asking them to do it.

i take it then you know the afore mentioned road and its WHACKING great sign then and how close to the 'swap over speed' that they park ,in order to get the motorists ? or are you commenting blindly again? just asking.

[tony gale's mic]

There are times when exceeding the speed limit is perfectly safe and acceptable, and times when driving at or just under the limit is totally unacceptable. Cameras cannot discriminate in the same way that a police officer can.

Thankfully now we've got a proper Government and the country isn't being run by a bumbling imbecile, we're seeing the beginnings of long overdue changes being made with the removal of the majority of cameras, most of which were positioned more with revenue generation in mind than preventing accidents. Let's be honest, if they were all about safety why wasn't there one outside every school?

Hopefully the next stage will the total elimination of policing by proxy (cameras) and then reintroduction of more police cars and officers on the roads, but I fear Labour has left the nation in such a state financially that there'll be no money left for that.

Good god I'm used to you posting rubbish in the Rovers section but now you've decided to do the same here.

I don't take the hard line view of colin, yes there are times when going, for example, 80 on the motorway is acceptable. Sometimes I do go over the speed limit but I do so knowing it's at the risk of getting snapped by the camera and getting action taken. If it happens I might bemoan my bad luck but not the fact speed limits need to exist and we need ways of enforcing them.

There are NEVER times when going at or just under the speed limit is unacceptable. Going severely under the speed limit like 40mph on the motorway, yes I agree, but not going at 65mph on the motorway or 27mph on a 30 road. That's complete and utter tosh.

"Thankfully now we've got a proper Government" - really? How long have you had to judge them, all of a few months? Have you seen what they're doing with the NHS amongst other things?

And yes - let's send the police officers out onto the roads to monitor speeding! Great idea! Let's divert officers away from other duties to make sure that (important) speed limits are being adhered to across the entire road network, or alternatively since this isn't remotely feasible let's just abandon speed limits altogether as if we're not going to monitor them they might as well not exist!

It was definitely Labour that got us into this financial state too and most definitely not the fact we were part of a global crisis, which is why we're the only country in the world to have been in recession and the only country in the world which is facing cuts.

Get a clue mate, seriously.

[thenodrog]

There are only 2 ways to make idiot drivers such as the above obey the law - speed bumps and 20mph limits on all urban roads and average speed cameras on all motorways and A roads. When Cameron is kicked out at the next election Labour will hopefully continue their good work of 1997 - 2010 in making the roads a safer place for responsible drivers.

Hey you might be onto something! How about a man walking in front of every car waving a red flag? Solve speeding, obesity and the unemployment problem at a stroke. Every long term unemployed dolloper person could be freed from the dole queue first and then rendered down by walking briskly for hours at a time.

Next off we could smash up a cotton loom or two with sledgehammers.

[colin]

i take it then you know the afore mentioned road and its WHACKING great sign then and how close to the 'swap over speed' that they park ,in order to get the motorists ? or are you commenting blindly again? just asking.

If there is a speed reduction from 50 mph to 30 mph then there will be a whacking great sign: it'll be a big round one with a red border and it'll have "30" in the middle of it. What you do is to slow down and reduce your speed from 50mph to 30 mph.

OK so far?

So what you do is to drop your driving speed to 30mph and there you go. Easy. You get where you are going just about the same. You get where you are going.

Just out of interest: has anyone plucked up the courage to tell us why they need to exceed the speed limit.

Abbey? Thenodrog? Others?

[Grabbi Graeme]

Yes I have driven when drunk - half a mile on a country road in Cumbria, at 10mph. 3 years ago.

I can say I have drove over the speed limit, but I have never drove when drunk, which I think is worse than speeding.

Is it human nature to disobey the law ? Exceeding the speeding limit is down to poor driving skills, and selfishness.

So is driving too slow, that is down to drivers who think that doing 30 mph is like doing 180mph down the Hanger straight at Silverstone, there are a lot of nervous drivers out there who are probly more a danger.

The inability to keep a vehicle at/or under the speed limit shows a distinct lack of skill.

If you were to take your driving test again, doing what those that adnit to speeding do, then you would fail, and you would keep failing until you did the right thing.

I think that is pretty obvious although I would think if you were taking your test you would resist the urge to speed.

[jim mk2]

So is driving too slow, that is down to drivers who think that doing 30 mph is like doing 180mph down the Hanger straight at Silverstone, there are a lot of nervous drivers out there who are probly more a danger.

I agree driving too slow is dangerous and can lead to frustration for drivers behind who want to drive at the correct road speed.

But that is a different argument. This debate is about speeding, and why some selfish drivers feel the need to exceed the limit and endanger the lives of others.

[thenodrog]

Just out of interest: has anyone plucked up the courage to tell us why they need to exceed the speed limit.

Abbey? Thenodrog? Others?

1. The braking distance of my car is about half that of a 25 year old Nissan Sunny for starters.

2. My thinking distance is immeasurably less than that of any person who would even consider being seen dead in one.

BUT....

Glad you used the term 'exceeding the speed limit' rather than the single word 'speeding' colin. There is a significant difference imo. Less than 40 on a wide road with a 30mph limit can be classed as exceeding the speed limit. Over 40 is speeding and over 50 is reckless and dangerous driving imo. By the same token 30mph on a side street lined by cars and houses is also reckless and dangerous but is not classed as speeding. Come to think about it it's propable that whilst you have never ever even once done 31mph in a town over the past hundred years or so that you will have done the latter many many times.

[colin]

1. The braking distance of my car is about half that of a 25 year old Nissan Sunny for starters.

2. My thinking distance is immeasurably less than that of any person who would even consider being seen dead in one.

etc

A good and thorough answer, perhaps though it's

( a )somewhat irrelevant and then

( b )"The Stig" job is vacant. You should apply. Self confidence shouldn't be a problem.

but really not to the question I asked.

Again I ask, why do you feel the need to exceed the speed limit?

[Guest bluerovers]

etc

A good and thorough answer, perhaps though it's

( a )somewhat irrelevant and then

( b )"The Stig" job is vacant. You should apply. Self confidence shouldn't be a problem.

but really not to the question I asked.

Again I ask, why do you feel the need to exceed the speed limit?

Why do you feel the need to stick to the speed limit?

[dave birch]

This, in reply to why you would drive differently if taking your test again....

I think that is pretty obvious although I would think if you were taking your test you would resist the urge to speed.

So there, Colin, is your answer.

It's an urge. Pretty much like the "urge" to drink, like the "urge" to take drugs or to smoke. It's a "needed" thing.

Bluerover, are you serious? Ask any copper who's been at the scene of a car wrapped round a telegraph pole or had to go and tell some mother that her son has just died as a result of an "accident".

[MarkBRFC71]

Good god I'm used to you posting rubbish in the Rovers section but now you've decided to do the same here.

I don't take the hard line view of colin, yes there are times when going, for example, 80 on the motorway is acceptable. Sometimes I do go over the speed limit but I do so knowing it's at the risk of getting snapped by the camera and getting action taken. If it happens I might bemoan my bad luck but not the fact speed limits need to exist and we need ways of enforcing them.

There are NEVER times when going at or just under the speed limit is unacceptable. Going severely under the speed limit like 40mph on the motorway, yes I agree, but not going at 65mph on the motorway or 27mph on a 30 road. That's complete and utter tosh.

"Thankfully now we've got a proper Government" - really? How long have you had to judge them, all of a few months? Have you seen what they're doing with the NHS amongst other things?

And yes - let's send the police officers out onto the roads to monitor speeding! Great idea! Let's divert officers away from other duties to make sure that (important) speed limits are being adhered to across the entire road network, or alternatively since this isn't remotely feasible let's just abandon speed limits altogether as if we're not going to monitor them they might as well not exist!

It was definitely Labour that got us into this financial state too and most definitely not the fact we were part of a global crisis, which is why we're the only country in the world to have been in recession and the only country in the world which is facing cuts.

Get a clue mate, seriously.

Are you Jim Mk2 in disguise? You seem to have his ability to be insulting to anyone who doesn't exactly share your worldview down to the nth degree, whilst simultaneously spouting ill-informed nonsense. Should we call you Jim Mk3?

"There are NEVER times when going at or just under the speed limit is unacceptable." Seriously?! I think you misunderstood my other post, and/or didn't read the subsequent one that explained it and have just gone off on one in your miserable old git style. Or ..... you actually think it's fine to go razzing past a school at 30 mph at 8.30am when there are loads of kids and parents around, just because that's the speed limit? Please tell me it's the former, because if its the latter then the mind boggles.

The NHS has had more money pumped into it under Labour, granted - but most of that has gone to pay for an ever increasing number of non-clinical managers, and the level of paperwork and bureaucracy is such that the NHS has never been more inefficient. My sister is a Sister, my Step-Mum a nurse and my Auntie recently retired - and while all of them think the Tories will make severe cuts, they also say it would not be hard to make some cuts without greatly affecting frontline services.

The problem isn't speeding per se - it's dangerous, and inappropriate driving. They are not the same thing at all. A camera can catch someone going over a certain limit on a certain stretch of road, but what about drink-drivers, drug-drivers, drivers with no insurance, MOT or tax? You need police officers out on the streets, and driver and pedestrian education. The point I was trying to make is that speeding is just one very small area (stats show speed is the main contributory factor in only 5% of accidents) that needs to be tackled to make our roads safer. It just happens to be the easiest, and most lucrative one too.

Obviously it wasn't Labour entirely who started the global financial crisis - that was a blatant troll which obviously soared way above your head. Donut.

[thenodrog]

Sticking to the limit does also allow traffic to flow better.

Everybody moving over to the left hand lanes of MWays whenever and wherever possible as guidelines stipulate would certainly do that.

[thenodrog]

Only on the odd occasion have I seen someone hog the middle lane with no intent of overtaking anyone. I think about once or twice in my life I've seen someone hog the fast lane. Not really the biggest of issues, is it?

You are either having a laugh, terminally stupid or trying to take the p1ss. Which is it?

[Stuart]

I really don't want to get into this debate (again - this isn't the first such thread).

However, having read through much of it the crux of the debate seems to be 'obeying the rules'.

If the standard town centre speed limit was 35 and the national speed limit was 80, the same arguments would be being made.

The issue here should be responsible vs irresponsible driving rather than the circular 29mph vs 31mph argument.