[Archived] Williams & Co

[broadsword]

So the manager and JW should be able to predict the future?

They took a decision at the time and we have to live with that, it may have been wrong, but that’s not JW fault.

Every player who signs should automatically be given a first-teamer's wages, as we don't know how many games they will play?

Can't agree with that. Players should be given a salary commensurate with their ability and experience. Zurab is not a 30k a week player on that basis.

I don't think John Williams has done that bad a job. However, it's been a mistake to give second-rate players first-rate wages when our budget is as tight as it is. That's not being churlish and failing to recognise what a sterling job has been done overall. However, rather than go to the other end of the spectrum and lavish praise unconditionally, it's better to view things with an open mind, and recognise the good and the bad.

There's nothing wrong with making reasonable, well-argued points - makes a change from the agit-prop we've come to see on here.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

What is ludicrous about people blaming JW for the Ince mistake is that he took exactly the same gamble with Ince as he did with Hughes, in fact, Ince was actually more proven at a domestic level then Hughes was. At the time, Ince didnt seem a daft choice at all.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Good for Unleaded for livening up an increasingly dull and unreadable messageboard.

Seems a decent chap and I'm sure will be kept on by the new owners, if only for the strong links he must have built up in the Premier League echelons. But I find it interesting how the 'we're not worthy' repliers attribute all the negatives to someone else: this window - Trustees; 3 right backs - Allardyce etc.

This raises the question of accountability. JW is somewhat unusual for a PL chairman in that he is an employee, not a shareholder or owner. That means he has no skin in the game, no financial risk whatsoever. SO for 1/4 million a year I expect an exceptionally high level of accountability and achievement. After all, how many other employee-only jobs are there in Blackburn that pay as much?

It is constantly quoted that he is paid a fair wage for a 50 million turnover org, which is true, but we are far from being a typical 50 million a year turnover company. Most of our income comes from one source, a source that, through it's own efforts has delivered some stunning increases. Some of that is fixed and some variable; the variable, league placing etc, derives mostly from the efforts and ability of one man, the team manager. Rovers turnover has shot up to 50 million not by the efforts of the chairman but by the PL chairman and his team, and our own dear Sam.

Another typical responsibility of an employee chairman is to manage in leiu of the shareholders, who are usually a disparate and unorganised bunch. Bu we have one shareholder owning 99%+ of the shares, who seems to tell JW what to do at crucial moments. We were led to believe it was they who pulled the trigger on Ince, and they who have decided how much money or not can be spent this summer - operational decisions taken by someone else other than the Chairman.

He does seem to have more control over the expenditure side and I am on the side of those who believe our wage bill has not been handled well. Only a couple of years ago, this messageboard was filled with predictions of how many million surplus we would have once the new deals kicked in. Not only did we never get a surplus, but we have had an unprecedented fire sale of our top stars AND accumulated a 20 million overdraft. Over the last 4 years our wage bill has gone up by a significantly greater % than the income - which has shot up during this period - to the point where we are back to paying 90% on wages. Yet we have a threadbare squad to show for all this. If we were paying the going rate, we would be losing some players for more money as there is always someone in a fix who will pay over the odds, yet I can't think of us losing anyone for money since Sherwood.

On the capital expenditure side, unlike many other club Chairmen, he has had a free ride. Jack rebuilt 3 sides of the ground and founded Brockhall. The Riverside has not been improved significantly under JW's reign. The much maligned Doug Ellis, for example, had the responsibility of finding the funding for virtually the entire refitting of Villa Park.

I am sure that when the new owners take over, they will be more hands on than have been the Trust, so JW will I believe become more of a non-executive Chairman, a bit like Bob Coar was. As an aside, Williams Jnr might well be kept on to do the local marketing - selling tickets - but the real development stuff overseas will be done by that Froggy reporting into someone at Head Office.

Summary: he's a very highly paid man by any standards and yes, on his watch we have not been relegated. But in the real world, real chairman have to shoulder a lot more responsibility.

[Amo]

What is ludicrous about people blaming JW for the Ince mistake is that he took exactly the same gamble with Ince as he did with Hughes, in fact, Ince was actually more proven at a domestic level then Hughes was. At the time, Ince didnt seem a daft choice at all.

Not really. Ince was only a lower-league manager, it's a huge step-up to the Premiership. Hughes was managing at international level, where it doesn't get any bigger, managing big personalities like Bellamy & Savage. Apart from being young managers who played for United... there's little comparison. You're making the same mistake Williams did.

[rebelmswar]

Not really. Ince was only a lower-league manager, it's a huge step-up to the Premiership. Hughes was managing at international level, where it doesn't get any bigger, managing big personalities like Bellamy & Savage. Apart from being young managers who played for United... there's little comparison. You're making the same mistake Williams did.

I 100% agree.

What is going on?

[bobsterbrfc]

John Williams is immense. The proof is there for all research. Longest run in the top-flight, small town club in a big city league. Not just surviving, but at times thriving.

To criticise his performance, on the whole, is ridiculous. He is entitled to a couple of errors, I personally only consider Ince to be a mistake of his, and that is a curious case as Sam was the obvious candidate but bed-wetter fans who shouldn't have internet access made that impossible.

[Gav]

It's nothing to do with predicting the future, it's about analysing the present.

Zurab has never been anything other than backup, and should have been paid as such. If he ever established himself in the first team over a long period of time and at a high level, then maybe we could have paid him £30k a week or whatever he was earning.

We're in no position to be a soft touch over wages. Certainly we need to keep our star players, but we can't pay over the odds for backup.

I think Zurab was playing week in week out when he signed his deal, which may explain the alleged 30k a week.

Bottom line is, anyone who thinks John Williams has done, and is doing a bad job should lay of the crack and mentholated spirits.

What next? Jack Walker never did anything for us....

[LeChuck]

I think Zurab was playing week in week out when he signed his deal, which may explain the alleged 30k a week.

Bottom line is, anyone who thinks John Williams has done, and is doing a bad job should lay of the crack and mentholated spirits.

What next? Jack Walker never did anything for us....

Zurab has never held down a regular place for a significant period of time.

I'm sure I started out by saying Williams has done a fantastic job. If I didn't say it here then I've said it plenty of times elsewhere. I hope he stays in his current role if we are taken over.

That doesn't mean there isn't room for constructive criticism though. We are paying our backup players too much, we wouldn't have so much trouble offloading them otherwise.

[Amo]

What next? Jack Walker never did anything for us....

Yeah, because they're really comparable.

[47er]

I think Zurab was playing week in week out when he signed his deal, which may explain the alleged 30k a week.

Bottom line is, anyone who thinks John Williams has done, and is doing a bad job should lay of the crack and mentholated spirits.

What next? Jack Walker never did anything for us....

In other words anyone who thinks differently than you. I've never attacked Williams in any post but that doesn't stop me listening to those who have formed a different view to the herd.

What are mentholated spirits by the way? Do they get you p***sed while curing your throat tickle?

[Gav]

Zurab has never held down a regular place for a significant period of time.

I'm sure I started out by saying Williams has done a fantastic job. If I didn't say it here then I've said it plenty of times elsewhere. I hope he stays in his current role if we are taken over.

That doesn't mean there isn't room for constructive criticism though. We are paying our backup players too much, we wouldn't have so much trouble offloading them otherwise.

Yeah, because they're really comparable.

In other words anyone who thinks differently than you. I've never attacked Williams in any post but that doesn't stop me listening to those who have formed a different view to the herd.

What are mentholated spirits by the way? Do they get you p***sed while curing your throat tickle?

Have you three got girlfriends?

No seriously?

Because I wasn’t having a go at either of you, but clearly you’re spending too much time on sites like this looking for arguments that are not there.

Get out and see a bit of the world instead of spending every waking hour on here.

Just a thought

[LeChuck]

Stop being a dick. When did I even attempt to argue with you? If you can't separate good-natured discussion from arguments in your thick head then that's your problem.

For what it's worth, I have internet access at work a job that requires me to be at the computer all day long.

[Gav]

Stop being a dick. When did I even attempt to argue with you? If you can't separate good-natured discussion from arguments in your thick head then that's your problem.

For what it's worth, I have internet access at work a job that requires me to be at the computer all day long.

great stuff!

[LeChuck]

great stuff!

Glad it amused you.

Nice tactic for digging yourself out of that hole by the way. A bit crass possibly, but definitely effective. Next time people pull me up for something stupid I write I'll give it a whirl.

[OhmiBRFC]

Williams desearves his own Topic after this latest Comedy show..........I for one think JW is not Good for BRFC any more and needs to think about Retiring..........Some of the things He should Explain:

Why is the wages-to-Income problem not come down when he knows this has been the problem for the last Few seasons...........so much so that you ended up with Benjani on a Pay as you play Deal!!..Why? because we are stuffed so much with the likes of Richters,Roberts,Zurab,Flynn,Andrews that no other clubs can afford them....

-Benni Money?

-Why Allow Sam 3 Right Backs?

-Wheres the Money gone which they have been bidding for these Mystry Strikers All summer long............This Saga was a total disgrace and i have never seen anything like it......What did they get in the end for their seceracy?

I can go on and on but hope Williams doesnt.

How much did/do you pay for your ST?

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10303~2143221,00.html

There we go, another move by Rovers to alianate the fans, JW clearly doesnt know what he's doing. Clearly all the money he makes off us just goes to help 'run the club', who needs that? We need a bulgarian lightweight attacker far more then financial stability.

I demand that he come round my house and present me with a powerpoint slideshow involving every detail of our finances over the past 2 years. I feel it is my right to know exactly how much Morten spends on hair gel, and how this impacts on us in the transfer market.

And unless JW cooks me a fry up each match day, flies me personally from Brighton to the Ewood Park centre circle and allow me first pick of all the Rovers' players WAGS post match, then I dont see I can support him or the board.

This thread is a joke.

[USRoverME]

Don't forget, JW also owes you for the cost of getting the letters and number of your favorite player attached to your jersey, and then having the lad's squad number changed. He's a devious manipulator, that JW.

[John]

John Williams has been an excellent Chairman for us, Ince aside (which was a horiffic decision) - also, he is as passionate about Rovers as any of us.

This thread beggars belief, or maybe I should not be surprised.

[rebelmswar]

John Williams has been an excellent Chairman for us, Ince aside (which was a horiffic decision) - also, he is as passionate about Rovers as any of us.

This thread beggars belief, or maybe I should not be surprised.

Beggars has been a very often used word here lately.

While I do not demand Mr. Williams scalp, nor do I desire him to be tarred and feathered, nor do I subscribe to some of the vitriol that has been slung – much akin to a monkey with his fecal matter in a zoo – I do have concerns. Valid concerns in my opinion, concerns that have been poking their heads up out of their holes from many members.

Just because the opening statement in this thread is more knee jerky than an epileptic gymnast does not mean that all of our concerns should beggar, or peddler, belief.

Mr. Williams is a man and should be held to account for his errors, as few and far between as they are, and I am sure that he would refute any claim that he walks on water. Gav and co seem to think that any error made by a representative should be forgiven as soon as it occurred - mainly due to Mr. Williams not being Dr X. I think that these problems should be aired and dealt with and people should be able to say what they feel.

We have been told about saving the powder and all of that mess, we seem to use less powder than Switzerland. The Ince abortion….. never mind about that. Shudder. We have been told that money has been used for such and such and that should be the end of it. Why? I do not want Mr. Williams in my office with a Powerpoint presentation, but I should be able to voice disappointments etc. without being classed as a heretic.

[Gav]

Glad it amused you.

Nice tactic for digging yourself out of that hole by the way. A bit crass possibly, but definitely effective. Next time people pull me up for something stupid I write I'll give it a whirl.

You clearly take this messageboard stuff a little too seriously LeChuck, please see my comments above, girlfriend/boyfriend maybe? Give it some thought

[47er]

You clearly take this messageboard stuff a little too seriously LeChuck, please see my comments above, girlfriend/boyfriend maybe? Give it some thought

4 posts on this page alone Gav. You should get out more!

[Gav]

Beggars has been a very often used word here lately.

While I do not demand Mr. Williams scalp, nor do I desire him to be tarred and feathered, nor do I subscribe to some of the vitriol that has been slung – much akin to a monkey with his fecal matter in a zoo – I do have concerns. Valid concerns in my opinion, concerns that have been poking their heads up out of their holes from many members.

Just because the opening statement in this thread is more knee jerky than an epileptic gymnast does not mean that all of our concerns should beggar, or peddler, belief.

Mr. Williams is a man and should be held to account for his errors, as few and far between as they are, and I am sure that he would refute any claim that he walks on water. Gav and co seem to think that any error made by a representative should be forgiven as soon as it occurred - mainly due to Mr. Williams not being Dr X. I think that these problems should be aired and dealt with and people should be able to say what they feel.

We have been told about saving the powder and all of that mess, we seem to use less powder than Switzerland. The Ince abortion….. never mind about that. Shudder. We have been told that money has been used for such and such and that should be the end of it. Why? I do not want Mr. Williams in my office with a Powerpoint presentation, but I should be able to voice disappointments etc. without being classed as a heretic.

The problem with this site is far too many people have no middle ground, its either love or hate.

The Ince appointment was a disaster, but not just down to JW it was the boards decision, and I have no problem whatsoever with him paying Zurab and Roberts 30k a week, its was needed at the time to back the manager.

John Williams does walk on water for me, he’s done a tremendous job at the football club and long may it continue.

[Iceman]

John Williams is

[Gav]

4 posts on this page alone Gav. You should get out more!

1667 posts in 2yrs 47er?, people in glass house and all that

I'll get yer coat

[thenodrog]

..... and I have no problem whatsoever with him paying Zurab and Roberts 30k a week, its was needed at the time to back the manager.

Me neither. It's the length of contract that is the kicker (and has tied SA's hands together this summer) and not the annual amount.