[Archived] Foreign Invasion

[Iceman]

what do you guys think of all these foreign players, that have entered into the EPL?

From a neutral point of view, im not sure that the influx of foreign players, is helping the national teams across all levels. On the one hand its great to see some of the best players, but on the other hand, its disappointing to see an England team not performing at major tournaments.

There was a programme, where it was discussed about, reducing the number of foreign players per team, and ensuring that more English players are given a chance to progress. Do you guys believe, that the reason the senior England team are under achieving, is because of too many foreign players in the league?

[rebelmswar]

Personally I feel if good English players come through they will get the chance. Competition breeds excellence.

[LeChuck]

We didn't even qualify for USA 94, that was before the foreign influx really began. It's not like we had a superb tournament record ruined, it's always been pretty pathetic.

Obviously the lack of English players doesn't help, but the root cause of the problem is something far deeper.

[BuckyRover]

what do you guys think of all these foreign players, that have entered into the EPL?

From a neutral point of view, im not sure that the influx of foreign players, is helping the national teams across all levels. On the one hand its great to see some of the best players, but on the other hand, its disappointing to see an England team not performing at major tournaments.

There was a programme, where it was discussed about, reducing the number of foreign players per team, and ensuring that more English players are given a chance to progress. Do you guys believe, that the reason the senior England team are under achieving, is because of too many foreign players in the league?

Please explain why the national team was rubbish before the influx of players into the premiership

[Gally]

I don't buy that more foreigners in our game weakens our international team. The players good enough to play for England either star for their club, or are well capable of starring for another premierleague side if for whatever reason they find themselves out of the XI. Giving the Micheal Tongues of this world a platform to play for a bigger club won't improve things.

Though, I can see it becoming a problem if too many academy sides don't have enough British players in them al la Arsenal of a few years ago.

[ABBEY]

hahaahahaha this thread is started by a foreigner hahahaha ...sweet irony ,no offence icers it has just cracked me up thats all pal.

[Iceman]

Im half English by now Abbey was just a thought, it was ruining the game in South Africa as well, where there were too many foreign players, and very little SA players playing.

[Hughesy]

I dont believe the reason England are average is down to the influx of foreign players - too many young English players make the wrong choice - they would rather sit on the bench at City/ United/ Arsenal/ Chelsea than play week in, week out at places like Blackburn/ Bolton etc or even the Championship; aslong as they are earning the big money.

Too many young players also get their head turned too soon - Perfect example being Bentley....had he stayed at Ewood then in only a further 12 months he would have been an even better player & he would be an England regular now. Now look at him, lucky if he makes the bench and not even mentioned when it comes to the England squad.

Too many believe in their own hype & too many academy players get too big headed once they get mentioned in a paper or on TV.

[Mattyblue]

Argentina, Brazil and increasingly Holland have poor domestic leagues with the majority of their national side playing abroad.

Doesn't matter because they produce enough players with the technical skills needed to thrive at international level.

[rebelmswar]

Im half English by now Abbey was just a thought, it was ruining the game in South Africa as well, where there were too many foreign players, and very little SA players playing.

Have you played enough internationals yet?

[tony gale's mic]

Personally I feel if good English players come through they will get the chance. Competition breeds excellence.

True - see how Adam Johnson is doing at City. See how, despite the many foreigners United bought over the years, they produced a core group of excellent English players. Of course Fergie didn't give two shiny shites about the England team, it's just that they produced the quality.

The English players should have a headstart over the foreigners by being accustomed to the climate, culture and footballing style of this country. The fact that the young foreigners brought here (eg Fabregas) still end up miles better than them isn't because of any sort of foreign influx.

Argentina, Brazil and increasingly Holland have poor domestic leagues with the majority of their national side playing abroad.

Doesn't matter because they produce enough players with the technical skills needed to thrive at international level.

Don't know if it was intended but you've stumbled across a reason at least as important as foreigners in our league if not more so - the reluctance of our players to play abroad.

For example - Lampard has been a fantastic Premier League player and it's heavily rumoured some of Europe's top sides were sniffing around him over the last few years, as one would expect. If he stated his desire to play abroad and develop his game in a league with a different style of football he undoubtedly could have been a far more effective player for England.

Of course it might not have worked out and he may well have been found out as only being capable of playing well in our league but still, he'd be greeted back with open arms by any of the big clubs surely.

[Tom]

I don't care personally I'd rather rovers sign a good foreigner than a worse and more pricey English alternative (or neither which is most likely the case)

[Iceman]

But, how do you develop an English youngster, if he is not given the opportunity? Oh i give up!

[Mattyblue]

I don't care personally I'd rather rovers sign a good foreigner than a worse and more pricey English alternative (or neither which is most likely the case)

The premium put on the heads of English players is crazy.

It cost Real Madrid about £20 million for Ozil and Khedira, Villa recieved £24 million plus Stephen Ireland for James Milner!

[Shabani]

More English players need to have some experience playing abroad

We'll never get anyhwere with 99% of Englishmen playing in England. the skills they learn abroad from other players and other leagues are invaluble

[tony gale's mic]

But, how do you develop an English youngster, if he is not given the opportunity? Oh i give up!

The ones who are good enough have been given opportunities. Most of them will have been impressing in training, in youth games, in reserve games etc. I'm sure there's some who have been missed but that's to be expected.

This league is packed full of some excellent managers and if a good young talent is at the club, it would take a poor manager not to blood them through as if they're already in your ranks, surely they'd be much better than buying any foreign import, no matter how cheap they are?

[LeChuck]

But, how do you develop an English youngster, if he is not given the opportunity? Oh i give up!

They are given the opportunity, but probably at a lower level.

If you go back ten years or so, you had the likes of Ray Parlour, Dixon, Winterburn at Arsenal. Bruce, Pallister etc. at Man Utd.

Nowdays 'average' English players (i.e. not international quality) like that don't get near the top teams like they could back then. If those players I listed were around today they'd probably be playing for the likes of Everton and Sunderland, not teams chasing the title.

That shift means the English players that were mid-table PL quality a decade ago now find themselves with yo-yo relegation teams, or even in the Championship.

You could still make a pretty comprehensive list of English players who are regulars in the Premier League but not playing for England, so I don't think it's 'quantity' that is the issue, rather 'quality'.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

True - see how Adam Johnson is doing at City. See how, despite the many foreigners United bought over the years, they produced a core group of excellent English players. Of course Fergie didn't give two shiny shites about the England team, it's just that they produced the quality.

The English players should have a headstart over the foreigners by being accustomed to the climate, culture and footballing style of this country. The fact that the young foreigners brought here (eg Fabregas) still end up miles better than them isn't because of any sort of foreign influx.

Don't know if it was intended but you've stumbled across a reason at least as important as foreigners in our league if not more so - the reluctance of our players to play abroad.

For example - Lampard has been a fantastic Premier League player and it's heavily rumoured some of Europe's top sides were sniffing around him over the last few years, as one would expect. If he stated his desire to play abroad and develop his game in a league with a different style of football he undoubtedly could have been a far more effective player for England.

Of course it might not have worked out and he may well have been found out as only being capable of playing well in our league but still, he'd be greeted back with open arms by any of the big clubs surely.

How many of the Spanish team play abroad? How many of the German team play abroad? Up until the moves of Khadeira/Ozil to Madrid (Only after they had starred in SA) the vast majority of those two squads were made from players who played within their respective nation's league. The majority of the French team play in other countries and that really hasnt worked out.

The problem we have is at grass roots. Players who are encouraged to hoof it long instead of taking a few extra touches and beating a man. Kids are shouted at for trying something a bit different and are then applauded if they can hit Row Z when defending, instead of trying to pass their way out of difficult positions.

We lack a creative lynchpin. The Ozil/Kaka/Xavi/Iniesta/Sneijder/Pirlo type who can weave passes as well as go box to box. Gerrard is the closest we have but he doesnt have the fluidity or creativity of any of the players above. And that is typical of the English approach to football. No nonesense and nothing flash. Other teams incorporate both the funcionality of our play with guile and exceptional close quarter technique.

You look at Lampard for Chelsea - his role is to arrive in the box late, he doesnt create, he works off the likes of Essien and Malouda. Gerrard, as shown last year - relied terribly on either Mascharano or before him Alonso to get into scoring positions. The vast majority of decent English players rely very heavily on the foreign players working around them.

Ashley Cole is the only player in the England side who would get into a world XI. The rest are undoubtedly fighting for positions but are certainly behind several European players in each position i would say.

[LeChuck]

We lack a creative lynchpin. The Ozil/Kaka/Xavi/Iniesta/Sneijder/Pirlo type who can weave passes as well as go box to box. Gerrard is the closest we have but he doesnt have the fluidity or creativity of any of the players above.

The problem is that a rigid 4-4-2 formation doesn't allow you to play the type of players you have listed there to the best of their ability. That's why we've spent the last decade or so trying to fit the likes of Joe Cole (and more recently Gerrard) into the team on the left wing. 4-4-2 was fine when we just wanted to whip crosses into the box to the likes of Shearer and Les Ferdinand, but the game has moved on.

Rooney is his new-found role could be the answer to this problem. He's playing an almost identical role to that which Ozil and Sneijder play, and he's definitely our best player when on form. I think the problem is that we still don't have a definite choice to play the main striker when Rooney plays deep. Defoe is fine against smaller countries, but I don't think he does enough when he's not scoring against the bigger teams.

[tony gale's mic]

You look at Lampard for Chelsea - his role is to arrive in the box late, he doesnt create, he works off the likes of Essien and Malouda. Gerrard, as shown last year - relied terribly on either Mascharano or before him Alonso to get into scoring positions. The vast majority of decent English players rely very heavily on the foreign players working around them.

I disagree with this, it's peddled by a lot of people as a potential explanation to things but it's simply not true. Lampard relies on Essien and Malouda just as much as Essien and Malouda rely on him and the same with Gerrard at Liverpool. Last season Lampard in 50 games scored 27 goals and provided 20 assists. That's absolutely phenomenal and puts paid to people saying he's not a creative player. He also did the business in the Premier League and in Europe showing he doesn't just do it against Premier League sides. Gerrard's got a fantastic range of passing and is an excellent tackler as well as knowing where the net is.

At club level they're both brilliant players, even in England colours both of them have very good goalscoring records for midfielders, it's just they haven't performed when it's really mattered.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I disagree with this, it's peddled by a lot of people as a potential explanation to things but it's simply not true. Lampard relies on Essien and Malouda just as much as Essien and Malouda rely on him and the same with Gerrard at Liverpool. Last season Lampard in 50 games scored 27 goals and provided 20 assists. That's absolutely phenomenal and puts paid to people saying he's not a creative player. He also did the business in the Premier League and in Europe showing he doesn't just do it against Premier League sides. Gerrard's got a fantastic range of passing and is an excellent tackler as well as knowing where the net is.

At club level they're both brilliant players, even in England colours both of them have very good goalscoring records for midfielders, it's just they haven't performed when it's really mattered.

Dont get me wrong, Gerrard is a fantastic player, as is Lampard. But their roles are complimented greatly by foreign players playing in roles which no other English player can fill. That is my point. We dont have an Essien, a Xabi Alonso or Mascharano. Im not taking away from how good Lampard or Gerrard are, my point is that role which we cannot seem to fill is the second midfield role ie, the players who aid Lampard at Chelsea and Gerrard at Liverpool are not English, and it is those types of player that we fail to breed in this country.

[joey_big_nose]

Dont get me wrong, Gerrard is a fantastic player, as is Lampard. But their roles are complimented greatly by foreign players playing in roles which no other English player can fill. That is my point. We dont have an Essien, a Xabi Alonso or Mascharano. Im not taking away from how good Lampard or Gerrard are, my point is that role which we cannot seem to fill is the second midfield role ie, the players who aid Lampard at Chelsea and Gerrard at Liverpool are not English, and it is those types of player that we fail to breed in this country.

I agree with this. We seem to have a growing number of problem areas - most of the players we produce are attacking midfielders and defenders. Keeper, strikers, and ball playing defensive midfielders seem to be a real issue. Why that is seems to be confusing - it must be related to how the academies are playing football. Our main defensive midfielder is Gareth Barry who is a converted full back, decent but nowhere near the class of Busquets or Mascherano. Joe Hart gives us some hope in nets but he is a lone light in a pretty desperate keeper situation, and bizarrely a nation once famed for its quality strikers does not have a single convincing proper striker. Rooney is brilliant but the areas he plays is far more akin to Joe Cole than Alan Shearer.

It needs to be addressed somehow. Stick a Mascherano and a David Villa into the England team and you have potential tournament winners. But unless we produce that sort of quality in those key positions we are going to be also rans. Adam Johnson is a real boon because he can play left wing to give us a bit of balance, and Wilkshire looks promising although similar to a lot of players we have produced recently (Gerrard, Lampard, J Cole). Future of English football looks mediocre at present. Best 'proper' striker coming through in the new generation is Andy Caroll which is a bit sad really.

I suppose it could be connected to the fact that if you are a manager with a bit of money to spend - as most English clubs do in comparison to abroad - then you will look to get a striker in as a priority and a midfield general as a priority. You will get the best you can and that will take you to foreign climes to find the quality. Striker has to be the most under represented English position in the Premiership.

[philipl]

Too many English players do a Bentley and develop their drinking and socializing techniques instead of their football.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We've plenty of players who can run after the ball but hardly any who can run with it. What would a Bryan Douglas be worth now ?

[EWOODACE1]

its not as though the english players set the championship alight though is it. england just dont breed world beaters. well not enough anyway