[Archived] Rovers Vs Fulham

[RIML]

How does Hughes have the cheek to moan about our goal when their keeper shouldn't have been on then say the handball is just one of those things.

Typical match of the day show countless replays of that but not the handball after the game.

And the free kick leading up to Fulham's goal, that was never a free kick Nelsen didn't touch him.

[DE.]

True, But I dont think we are fortunate to have the points total we have, I think our play so far has merited the points, we were a little unlucky not to get anything from the birmingham game and I felt we did enough (from our first half performance)to get something from the arsenal one too. the point im making is even if our play is good in games, I dont know where our goals will come from. Dunn was our highest scorer last year and I doubt he will get as many as he did last year this year. Niko does not look like hes going to get 15 goals this season and MD i would put at 8 max. Jones/grella/peds and diouf havent scored to many and doubt they will anytime soon.. so again my point is we dont have an actual goal scorer and if we are depending on luck/refs/mistakes whatever to get our goals that's the scary part.

There's a lot of could, would, should when it comes to talking about luck and whatnot in games.... I think we're somewhat lucky to have the points we have but the fact is we have them and that's all that really matters.

You're right, the issue is where our goals are going to come from - but we knew this was going to be an issue in the summer and our solution was Mame Diouf on loan and Benjani on a free.

Fact is, Allardyce sets his teams out to score 1 a game. Well, I assume this to be true, because whenever we score a goal we instantly sit back and invite huge pressure on ourselves and inevitably concede.

We need to push on after we score our first and get another, but the question is whether the issue is Allardyce's tactics or the players not being good enough to use his tactics properly (he suggested in the after-match interview that the players were to blame - but then, I've never heard him take the blame for anything during his time here so that shouldn't come as a surprise).

[ABBEY]

GO NOW ZZZzZaam that's the worst game and negative crap I've ever seen..10 quid a ticket ? Overcharged it wasn't worth 10p ...PATHETIC

[Clitherover]

Crap, rubbish and various other derogatory words. Massive waste of two points.

[47er]

Having seen Match of the Day, what a terrible performance by the ref!

No wonder El Hadj Diouf got man of the match.

People should look more closely at our first goal. Its certainly a foul on the keeper by EHD and he had got away with it before. But watch Hangeland-----he has both arms wrapped around Kalinic and ends up wrestling him to the ground with one arm around

Niko's neck! An absolute stonewall penalty not spotted by any commentator I've heard. Apologies if anyone has already posted this, must admit to not having read much of this thread.

[47er]

Effin odd that we had one headed off the line then.

Consider this.

1. Allardyce wanted to strengthen midfield but the money necessary was denied him.

2. As with Everton and Arsenal Fulham are stronger in midfield than we are.

3. What sort of logic would recommend us taking them on head to head in theior sytrongest department?

Allardyce has said time and again that it is stupidity to play to our opponents strengths.

Our tactics might not be easy on the eye and it might not be pretty football for the purist but it certainly isn't football's equivalent of suicide is it? Please cast your mind back a couple of years if you are able and rem how Ince kept banging on about playing good football and all we saw was square passing until we lost possession wrong side of the ball and gave soft goals away.

Fair comment but if you start at home against an average side with Jones and Grella as your 2 central midfielders you are really advertising what sort of game its going to be. Add that EHD and Pedersen are your other midfielders and the situation looks really dire from a creative point of view. A fit Dunn would have made so much difference but I thought N'Zonzi would have helped. He can pass and he can score. I'd have given Hoilett a go, at least do something.

Lack of money is important but so is team selection. The defence is terrific, the front 2 are OK but midfield is crying out for pace and invention.

[Blue n White Rover]

Announcer: "Todays Peter Jackson MOTM goes to, El Hadji Diouf"

Fans: "Eh?"

Woman walking past: "He's probably the one that pushed the keeper for our goal".

Best part of the game for me.

Jones needs to be on the bench or in CD. He is not a midfielder. Why waste Nzonzi's talent on the bench?

Edit: Why was Pedersen not using the long throw today? Today's game showed how one dimensional we are without the use of set pieces. We lack creativity, and rely too much on the long throw.

Could it be that Syed was at the game and Sam was told not to emply the long throw, as it is classed as "ugly" football? Or am I reading into things too much?

[Steve Moss]

. . . why the hell is Grella starting (and wasting 70 minutes) ahead of Nzonzi this season?

I can think of three possible reasons. First, maybe Sam is focused on the cup match against Villa and trying to keep his intended team reasonably fresh. It would also explain why he took Kalinic off. Second, Grella's in the shop window and Sam is hoping to convince potential buyers in January that he's fit? Third, N'Zonzi is young and the future of the club. Why not put the burden on Grella, whose not long for the club even if we can't offlaod him, while polishing N'Zonzi into the finished article? I suspect that we'll be seeing a lot more from N'Zonzi shortly.

A point against Fulham isn't a terrible result but there's no way we'll finish top half this year judging from the way we've played so far. . . .

I actually think we'll finish top half. We're off the a better start than last season and until today we really haven't played badly. This is just a bump in the road. Sam and the squad will learn from it and move on.

On the plus side, Benjani does not look like he's going to be a waste of a signing. Again demonstrating Sam's eye for older "has been" players who still have something left to give to the game.

[Miker]

I actually think we'll finish top half. We're off the a better start than last season and until today we really haven't played badly. This is just a bump in the road. Sam and the squad will learn from it and move on.

On the plus side, Benjani does not look like he's going to be a waste of a signing. Again demonstrating Sam's eye for older "has been" players who still have something left to give to the game.

I reckon both us and Fulham can finish top half this season. Lots of respect for Sam and Hughes as managers, they will continue to get results.

We played well against Fulham up until the goal, then the team switched off, presumably to protect the lead?

Benjani looked very lively. We should be ok up until January at the least with him and Kalinic in our squad.

[Eddie]

Allardyce can talk about deserving a big job, but he is quickly earning the reputation as the worst second-half manager around. Time and again we get a lead, usually deserved, and then either directly after the lead or as soon as the half-time teamtalk is done we begin to drop back, become even less adventurous and ask teams to attack us. Now I simply can't believe that the players are doing this on such a consistent basis unless these are the instructions.

[philipl]

Allardyce can talk about deserving a big job, but he is quickly earning the reputation as the worst second-half manager around. Time and again we get a lead, usually deserved, and then either directly after the lead or as soon as the half-time teamtalk is done we begin to drop back, become even less adventurous and ask teams to attack us. Now I simply can't believe that the players are doing this on such a consistent basis unless these are the instructions.

There is something in that based on what has happened thus far this season.

Sam was totally out thought in the Half Time dressing room by both Wenger and Hughes, that's for sure.

Our first half record reads W4 D1 L0

Second half reads W0 D1 L4

[47er]

Allardyce can talk about deserving a big job, but he is quickly earning the reputation as the worst second-half manager around. Time and again we get a lead, usually deserved, and then either directly after the lead or as soon as the half-time teamtalk is done we begin to drop back, become even less adventurous and ask teams to attack us. Now I simply can't believe that the players are doing this on such a consistent basis unless these are the instructions.

I must be suffering from a failing memory because I thought last season we came back from behind on a significant number of occasions ( too lazy to check).

That isn't to excuse yesterday's performance by the way which was truly disappointing. However till we are taken over and can afford a better midfield, performances like yesterday will be common I'm afraid.

[Exiled_Rover]

You knew it was a blatant foul on the keeper because the Rovers TV guys never showed a replay of the goal (as far as I'm aware). That said, their keeper was looking for the foul every time the ball came into the box. Football has gone really soft when any sort of contact on the keeper results in a foul. Edit: having seen it again, never a foul. He's gone down like a sack of potatoes.

And yes he should have been off earlier for handling the ball outside the box - and we should have had a penalty in the first half for when Niko was mugged in the penalty area. You win some you lose some.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

so again my point is we dont have an actual goal scorer and if we are depending on luck/refs/mistakes whatever to get our goals that's the scary part.

I don't think having a goal scorer is necessarily the problem. How many half or clear cut chances has Kalanic had this season - in the Fulham match I can recollect one maybe two half chances.

The problem is more about our service to the front men - which is invariably a long ball. I will give Fulham some credit - they pushed up on our defence - which meant (other than the odd Samba run) most of out balls were long from defence.

While we continue to play an ultra defensive midfield of Grella and Jones - we will always struggle to hold the ball and create chances. I think Jones will end up being a star in central defence - and in midfield his tracking, tackling and all round effort was first class - but he treats the ball like a hot potato, often lumping aimlessly forward. Why we continue to play a centre half in midfield (no matter how good he is) when we have a good midfield player in Nzonzi on the bench is beyond me (always thought the Nzonzi/Grella pairing showed great promise - the few times Grella was fit last season).

Overall yesterday was a boring match between two boring teams. Not always been a Pedersen fan - but thought he was unlucky to be subd'd yesterday - personally I would have taken off Jones and put Emo in centre midfield.

[philipl]

Jones wasn't going off because at one point one of our centre backs took a fearful knock ad there had to be a question over his ability to continue.

I'd hold fire on dismissing what Sam is doing until we have Olsson and Dunn back. The team he picks then will be a true test of what he is trying to achieve.

[47er]

I don't think having a goal scorer is necessarily the problem. How many half or clear cut chances has Kalanic had this season - in the Fulham match I can recollect one maybe two half chances.

The problem is more about our service to the front men - which is invariably a long ball. I will give Fulham some credit - they pushed up on our defence - which meant (other than the odd Samba run) most of out balls were long from defence.

While we continue to play an ultra defensive midfield of Grella and Jones - we will always struggle to hold the ball and create chances. I think Jones will end up being a star in central defence - and in midfield his tracking, tackling and all round effort was first class - but he treats the ball like a hot potato, often lumping aimlessly forward. Why we continue to play a centre half in midfield (no matter how good he is) when we have a good midfield player in Nzonzi on the bench is beyond me (always thought the Nzonzi/Grella pairing showed great promise - the few times Grella was fit last season).

Overall yesterday was a boring match between two boring teams. Not always been a Pedersen fan - but thought he was unlucky to be subd'd yesterday - personally I would have taken off Jones and put Emo in centre midfield.

Agree with all that. At the mo we are better off for strikers than for some time and way better than last season. Kalinic did some great thing yesterday eg controlling the ball that came over his head and hitting that superb pass for M Diouf, Benjani looked the goods despite the dire expectations on here and Roberts is a very adequate 4th striker for a club like ours.

The problems are in midfield--------strikers run all day to make position but the ball either fails to reach them or comes at such a height and pace it is impossible to control and usually reaches them when they have no support. At themoment I'm failing to see Pedersen justifying his new contract and when/if Dunn and Olssen are fit he'd be out for me. A four of Dunn, N'Zonzi, Olssen and Diouf or a 5 with Grella/Jones is the best we could do right now (sadly).

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Edit: Why was Pedersen not using the long throw today? Today's game showed how one dimensional we are without the use of set pieces. We lack creativity, and rely too much on the long throw.

Could it be that Syed was at the game and Sam was told not to emply the long throw, as it is classed as "ugly" football? Or am I reading into things too much?

Would have thought it more to do with the fact that Hangeland is even more dominant in the air than Samba. Now if Nzonzi had been on from the start the long throw may have been useful as Hangeland couldn't pick up both.

[Plastic Head]

Jones wasn't going off because at one point one of our centre backs took a fearful knock ad there had to be a question over his ability to continue.

I'd hold fire on dismissing what Sam is doing until we have Olsson and Dunn back. The team he picks then will be a true test of what he is trying to achieve.

If we're waiting for a fit Dunn it could be a long wait.

[jim mk2]

Point im trying to make is 3 our of the 5 goals were gifted to us and those 3 gifts have given us all our 5 points we have so far

Most goals are the result of mistakes either technically or tactically and there are very few that can be put down to sheer good play.

That said, it is unusual that some of our goals have come from goalkeeping mistakes - perhaps the Robert Green effect is rubbing off on all PL keepers.

[cletus]

Not read any of the previous posts on this thread (not had time) but thought yesterdays result was a bad one for Blackburn Rovers.

Rovers REALLY need to be winning teams like Fulham, or we`ll end up in the relegation mire.

Thought we started off well but it soon tapered off & we showed little or no imagination. I could see Fulhan`s goal coming from the 2nd half kick-off. Rovers lacked a midfielder with vision.

Having El Haj Diouf as man of the match was wrong, as i thought both Samba & Salgado had better games than Doofy.

Most exciting bit of the game? The beach ball being lobbed around the Darren End

[thenodrog]

Damn phone...what I meant to say was

I agree 100% with this, but regardless of tactics, why the hell have we failed to show up in the second half in over half the games so far this season?

I've been thinking about this and it's becoming regular now where we go in front playing 4-4-2 and then are pressed back by teams with stronger midfields before we inevitably capitulate. I'd love to be able to re-run that match and take off Diouff Mk2 at HT and replace him with Dunn and revert to a more solid 4-5-1.

Come on 'drog, that was 'created' by one of our famed hoofs into the box that the keeper spilled - don't argue for the sake of it.

Arguing? Wrong. I'm just dealing in the facts LDRover.

btw Spilled??? you are taking it very lightly that Schwarzer handled a goal bound shot outside the area and under the refs nose and should have been sent off.

[ABBEY]

Just heared the brainless ones interview again after the match..yet again when we win its him who is the expert and someone else is to blame this time the ref and the players for sitting back. Well I'm sorry but surly zzzzzam if you don't want them to do this its YOUR resposibity to bolluck them and tell them to change! WTF has the player of the year done to be made to sit on the bench whilst a young def is played out of position ? He's worse than ince!

[thenodrog]

Great point about the comparisons with Hughes as opposed to Ince. Any comparisons with Ince should be consigned to the bin as it was just a monumental error from the board - the comparisons with Hughes however are very relevant.

Remember how Hughes tried to elevate the aspirations of what Rovers could and should achieve and from relegation contenders we became top 6 material. For me Allardyce is doing exactly the opposite so that anything he achieves is magnified to be better than it actually is.

Nonsense! Comparison to Ince is very very valid. In fact comparison to them both is. Why are you trying to re-write history by forgetting the Ince debacle ever happened? Are you in denial of the holocaust and a member of the flat earth society to boot LD?

Ince made all the sorts of noises some less knowledgeable people on here like yourself love to hear about playing football on the ground and proper footballing principles etc. The result was that we ended up on our arses. Allardyce said 18 months ago that if anyone thinks we can take bigger spenders on by footballing them off the park is an idiot, and that our job is to negate their obvious stengths and try to play to ours. Last season we confounded all the experts by finishing 10th.

Nobody rates Mark Hughes as a manager more than I do but it is without question that Hughes enjoyed much more financial support in the early days than Allardyce is getting. Why are you conveniently forgetting that? All the same Hughes wanted away to the Mags and six months later Mark Hughes went first chance he got after the purse strings were pulled together and he was not allowed the funds for a. Diarra, b. Huddleston and c. Koumas.

[ABBEY]

As for spit being motm .? Jhc the Peter jackass people must be on drugs he was crap.

[thenodrog]

As for spit being motm .? Jhc the Peter jackass people must be on drugs he was crap.

It must have been down to his 'assist' for Samba's goal abbs.