[Archived] Rovers Vs Fulham

[Hughesy]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:29, thenodrog said:

Good player Dempsey but I don't rem him making the ESPN World X1 picked from all the teams in this summer's world cup do you Hughesy? I'm not sure how (even though he'd have walked into the England team in hindsight) but Ryan Nelsen did.

Ryan Nelsen stood out for a sh!te team thats all. He was a premier league player in a League 1 side basically!

[thenodrog]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:38, Hughesy said:

Ryan Nelsen stood out for a sh!te team thats all. He was a premier league player in a League 1 side basically!

That @#/? that they were the only unbeaten team in the entire World Cup.

[only2garners]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:11, Hughesy said:

Nelsen lacks pace, often gets caught ball watching & just hoofs the ball whenever he can.

I presume your constant nagging about Nelsen is to prove that you can criticise something about Rovers. Try looking a bit closer. I agree he could have more pace but he more than makes up for that with his football brain - he is usually in the right place at the right time. That's why you don't see him often making last ditch lunging tackles like Samba - he's got himself in the right place already and tidies up with the minimum of fuss. Samba is a great prospect but he still finds himself in the wrong place - he has the pace and the long legs to get himself out of trouble. He can only benefit from playing alongside Nelsen and that's why they are the first choice pair of centre backs. As time goes on Nelsen will get more vulnerable but he's a way away from that now. The best centre backs are as good in their mid 30s as they were in their mid 20s because their knowledge has replaced their pace.

[thenodrog]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:57, only2garners said:

I presume your constant nagging about Nelsen is to prove that you can criticise something about Rovers. Try looking a bit closer. I agree he could have more pace but he more than makes up for that with his football brain - he is usually in the right place at the right time. That's why you don't see him often making last ditch lunging tackles like Samba - he's got himself in the right place already and tidies up with the minimum of fuss. Samba is a great prospect but he still finds himself in the wrong place - he has the pace and the long legs to get himself out of trouble. He can only benefit from playing alongside Nelsen and that's why they are the first choice pair of centre backs. As time goes on Nelsen will get more vulnerable but he's a way away from that now. The best centre backs are as good in their mid 30s as they were in their mid 20s because their knowledge has replaced their pace.

I just wish he could pass to someone in the same coloured shirt more often.

[only2garners]

  On 22/09/2010 at 09:05, thenodrog said:

I just wish he could pass to someone in the same coloured shirt more often.

I'd agree but he is probably bound a bit by his instructions to get the ball forward asap.

[roversmum]

and the lack of movement from most of the squad who don't seem to have heard the words "move into a space"

[92er]

I guess this is turning into comments about Nelsen, but, as I have posted elsewhere, the thing that struck me about the 1 World Cup match I watched involving New Zealand, was his ability to find colleagues and his his ability to pass it on the ground.

[Henwah]

Nelsen is a great defender in a seige situation - putting his body on the line, last ditch defending etc, its always been the case at Rovers, and its backed up by the fact he did well at the world cup when New Zealand were the underdogs in every game, and had to do a lot of their defending in their own area, scrambling it away etc.

I think the problem is that he defends in this same way when we are under relatively little pressure, and if anything this can cause unnecessary panic to spread, and often presents the ball back to the opposition too easily.

In games where we are expected to take the initiative, or at least be 'equal' to our opponents I believe Jones is a better option then Nelsen due to being a bit more 'tidy' and composed, on the flipside in situations where we are pushed back into our own area for large spells and we have no option but to clear the ball/last ditch tackles/scrambles in the 6 yard box then Nelsen comes into his own.

It's horses for courses at the end of the day

[Iceman]

  On 22/09/2010 at 09:18, roversmum said:

and the lack of movement from most of the squad who don't seem to have heard the words "move into a space"

Do you think the ball thinks the same mum?

[RIML]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:11, Hughesy said:

They are actually both the same - 6ft 1, however its more a case of how it looked then - Dempsey rose high above your lovechild & once again he was at fault for the goal.

Official profiles

Ryan Nelsen 183cm

Clint Dempsey 185.5cm

A whopping 1 inch bigger

At fault? Have you seen where Salgado was? Salcido was in acres of space. We play as a team, we defend as a team.

[daren]

  On 21/09/2010 at 14:07, gumboots said:

That's tactics. When to use your subs is nowadays as much a part of the game plan as anything else and allardyce did not do anything to change things when it was obvious that Fulahm were coping with the long balls and Hangelaand was always going to beat Diouf to them. I agree Fulham did not lokk like scoring much of the time but they always had at least one in them which is why it was imperative that we either scored a second or deprived them of the ball instead of simply hoofing it back to them

Perhaps you're correct, however making a substitution too early is nearly always a mistake. We steamrolled Fulham for the first 20 minutes, and were awful for the next 25. Sam talked to them at half time and decided to see what the results of his team talk was. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable position, and we were still 1-0 up. The players DIDN'T respond (if anything, Grella and Pedersen got worse) and were substituted. The point is that these were the same players that were all over Fulham for 20 minutes, so it's not totally unreasonable of him to take a chance that their performance would improve again. Mind you, what the hell he's doing putting Grella anywhere near a football pitch is beyond me, but then I'm not at training every day.

Unfortunately Salgado gets caught a mile out of position, in an otherwise good performance from him, and Salcido puts in a great ball that Dempsey puts in the net very competently. That was pretty early in the second half and the changes came soon after.

[Exiled_Rover]

  On 22/09/2010 at 08:56, thenodrog said:

That @#/? that they were the only unbeaten team in the entire World Cup.

Congratulations to the Kiwis on their World Cup triumph.

Oh, wait....

  On 22/09/2010 at 09:18, roversmum said:

and the lack of movement from most of the squad who don't seem to have heard the words "move into a space"

That's been a problem at Rovers for years. A player will receive the ball, pass it to a team mate, then simply stop running thinking his job is done. It's school boy stuff.

[thenodrog]

  On 22/09/2010 at 16:45, Exiled_Rover said:

Congratulations to the Kiwis on their World Cup triumph.

Oh, wait....

Very churlish and a little bit silly too ER. They were everybodies whipping dogs and to go through their group unbeaten was quite some achievement.

[thenodrog]

Just browsing the match reports and this was from a Fulham fan from the the Observer fans view...

ADAM WILLIAMS, Observer reader

It was a typical away game at Blackburn – the referee struggled to deal with typical physical Allardyce tactics. I don't know how he thinks he could manage Real Madrid playing like that. Their goal was a clear foul on the keeper, though Schwarzer does look shaky. But after that we stood up and didn't let them intimidate us. Dembélé had an excellent game and we had a really good spell in the second half. The goal came from a great cross by Salcido, who was probably my star man. We're impressed with Mark Hughes – we've played in a similar vein to under Hodgson and look better away too.

What a plonker! 'Typical away game at Blackburn'! In recent years they've played us just once before Saturday under Allardyces management! Once under he who shall not be named and for the previous 4 years our manager was MARK HUGHES!

[gumboots]

  On 22/09/2010 at 16:29, daren said:

Perhaps you're correct, however making a substitution too early is nearly always a mistake. We steamrolled Fulham for the first 20 minutes, and were awful for the next 25. Sam talked to them at half time and decided to see what the results of his team talk was. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable position, and we were still 1-0 up. The players DIDN'T respond (if anything, Grella and Pedersen got worse) and were substituted. The point is that these were the same players that were all over Fulham for 20 minutes, so it's not totally unreasonable of him to take a chance that their performance would improve again. Mind you, what the hell he's doing putting Grella anywhere near a football pitch is beyond me, but then I'm not at training every day.

Unfortunately Salgado gets caught a mile out of position, in an otherwise good performance from him, and Salcido puts in a great ball that Dempsey puts in the net very competently. That was pretty early in the second half and the changes came soon after.

The problem was that I and most of the other fans who hadn't fallen asleep at Ewood on Saturday could see the need for changes before Fulham scored and didn't need to wait till they scored. They had been threatening a goal for so long that the general response when it happened was " well, that's no surprise is it?" Surely if we could see fulham building up that head of steam, the manager, who is the only one in a position to change anything, could see it too and should have been a bit more proactive, rather than sitting back like his team until the inevitable happened. No, you shouldn't fling all your subs on too early, but your subs should be part of your gameplan as far as injuries allow and not just a reaction to events, by which time it's often too late. And Allardyce should know by now what the effects of his team talks are by now - we generally play worse after them this season.

[roversmum]

  On 22/09/2010 at 09:35, Iceman said:

Do you think the ball thinks the same mum?

No, of course not. The ball has been primed to get to, as fast as possible, a player who is a) not the goalkeeper and b ) is not wearing a blue and white shirt. Daft comment, Isgak

  On 22/09/2010 at 16:45, Exiled_Rover said:

That's been a problem at Rovers for years. A player will receive the ball, pass it to a team mate, then simply stop running thinking his job is done. It's school boy stuff.

I know, ER. It's so obvious to us, why doesn't the Manager see it and do something about it. Otherwise, they just stand and wait for the pretty ball to come to them, and of course, someone with a bit of nous and speed nips in and nicks it (inevitably an opposition player ...)

  On 22/09/2010 at 21:55, gumboots said:

The problem was that I and most of the other fans who hadn't fallen asleep at Ewood on Saturday could see the need for changes before Fulham scored and didn't need to wait till they scored. They had been threatening a goal for so long that the general response when it happened was " well, that's no surprise is it?" Surely if we could see fulham building up that head of steam, the manager, who is the only one in a position to change anything, could see it too and should have been a bit more proactive, rather than sitting back like his team until the inevitable happened. No, you shouldn't fling all your subs on too early, but your subs should be part of your gameplan as far as injuries allow and not just a reaction to events, by which time it's often too late. And Allardyce should know by now what the effects of his team talks are by now - we generally play worse after them this season.

I wish I knew - how come we can see it and the Manager can't? He's moaning tonight about the result (Carling Cup at Villa) but as soon as you go defensive a team with pace like Villa will crucify you (although there were a couple of other reasons which I won't talk about in this thread).

[daren]

  On 22/09/2010 at 21:55, gumboots said:

The problem was that I and most of the other fans who hadn't fallen asleep at Ewood on Saturday could see the need for changes before Fulham scored and didn't need to wait till they scored. They had been threatening a goal for so long that the general response when it happened was " well, that's no surprise is it?" Surely if we could see fulham building up that head of steam, the manager, who is the only one in a position to change anything, could see it too and should have been a bit more proactive, rather than sitting back like his team until the inevitable happened. No, you shouldn't fling all your subs on too early, but your subs should be part of your gameplan as far as injuries allow and not just a reaction to events, by which time it's often too late. And Allardyce should know by now what the effects of his team talks are by now - we generally play worse after them this season.

I agree with you. I did say that we should have put them on at half time