[Archived] Other PL happenings 2010-2011

[S15]

I'm sorry but if anybody thinks that little back heel has his attempt at a freekick then there's no point arguing.

The body language of those involved said it all, just think of what happened. Why would he even pass it back to his keeper from there? It was the most obvious nudge back for the keeper to take the free kick i've ever seen.

[daren]

Spot on, this shouldn't be a question of bad refereeing but bad sportmanship. This reminds me of when we scored against Arsenal back in the 90s after a Sutton throw in that by rights we should have thrown back to them (I think we did but pressured them straight away, got the ball and scored). It was a breach of bad sportsmanship not bad refereeing and I'd put this incident in the same bracket.

Running the ball into the corner when you're winning by one goal at the end of the game is a normal tactic, every team does it including Rovers.

How many time have you shouted at a Rovers player for NOT running into the corner when we're 1-0 up in the 90th? I have plenty of times, it's not cheating or bad sportmanship.

Wow, both of these missed the point that people were making. The ball WAS thrown back to Arsenal. Their player took the ball and went towards the corner. Were we supposed to wait til he kicked it forward? If anything, I thought it was terrible sportsmanship of Arsenal - that was a very important game for us, not so much for them. Sutton jogged towards the Arsenal end, and didn't put any pressure on until the Arsenal player had made it very clear that he was time-wasting. The controversy was because we were Blackburn, don'tcha know. There was plenty of time for them to clear their lines

Of course he has the right to knock the ball to another player. As long as the player then takes it from the right place, what's the problem?

So, no-one's answered yet - if a player rolls the ball over before he's going to take the free kick, is the ball in play immediately? If not, why not?

Technically, it probably is. That isn't what happened in this instance, though. Turner made an absolute mess of it, and while it was an odd goal and there was confusion over it, it was perfectly legitimate. It wasn't like he rolled it - the ball moved a good 20 yards.

[den]

Besides, the ball had just been moved to that spot by the ref after Sunderland tried to take it closer so thinking he could move it again was stupid.

You see rovers player roll the ball back to Robinson every week. If the opposition run in and round the keeper you would be happy with that?

[Guest bluerovers]

You see rovers player roll the ball back to Robinson every week. If the opposition run in and round the keeper you would be happy with that?

No, but that isn't the issue.

[RevidgeBlue]

Of course he has the right to knock the ball to another player. As long as the player then takes it from the right place, what's the problem?

So, no-one's answered yet - if a player rolls the ball over before he's going to take the free kick, is the ball in play immediately? If not, why not?

1) The ball was already in the right place. Turner doesn't have the right to say "I don't think we'll take it from there - we'll take it from somewhere else."

2) I don't understand your point. Why would a player "roll the ball over" in that situation? However if the referee has indicated the kick could be taken, obviously yes, it would be in play.

[den]

So, no-one's answered yet - if a player rolls the ball over before he's going to take the free kick, is the ball in play immediately? If not, why not?

If it's with his foot then he has taken the free kick, if it's with his hands it's obvious that he's repositioning it.

What twaddle.

[brian_gallagher85]

I'm sorry but if anybody thinks that little back heel has his attempt at a freekick then there's no point arguing.

It wasn't actually a back heel.

[Guest bluerovers]

Just read through Fifa's rule book, it doesn't help on this issue but was surprised to learn (on an unrelated topic) that if you score an own goal from a direct free kick, it's not a goal but a corner to the opposition. I never knew that!

Ball enters the goal

• if a direct free kick is kicked directly into the opponents’ goal, a goal is

awarded

• if a direct free kick is kicked directly into the team’s own goal, a corner kick

is awarded to the opposing team

[den]

1) The ball was already in the right place. Turner doesn't have the right to say "I don't think we'll take it from there - we'll take it from somewhere else."

2) I don't understand your point. Why would a player "roll the ball over" in that situation? However if the referee has indicated the kick could be taken, obviously yes, it would be in play.

Rev

1] He wasn't telling the keeper to take it from somewhere else was he?

2] I'm arguing the technicalities, because that's the argument of the people who say the free kick was technically valid. Many players will walk over to take a free kick, but simply roll the ball over with their feet, even after the ref has blown his whistle for the free kick to be taken, maybe a couple of feet, just to find a flatter piece of ground. If an opponent was to run in and take the ball, after that first touch the referee 100 times out of 100 wouldn't allow it.

*WHY?

*answer, - because the ref would use his common sense and realise that the player wasn't actually "taking" the free kick with his first touch. The Sunderland player wasn't actually intending to take the free kick either, but for some strange reason on this occassion, the ref decided against using common sense.

[brian_gallagher85]

We should do that the next time we have one for an offside and see what the ref does*

]

*but only when we're about 3-0 up

[Guest bluerovers]

It wasn't actually a back heel.

Oh come on, to use a shiltoism it was near as dammit

[den]

Just read through Fifa's rule book, it doesn't help on this issue but was surprised to learn (on an unrelated topic) that if you score an own goal from a direct free kick, it's not a goal but a corner to the opposition. I never knew that!

That's probably because you can't score a goal from an indirect free kick?

Just a pure guess

[92er]

In the Arsenal example, at the time Arsenal were blatantly wasting time. We were getting frustrated with them and after the throw-in from us to them they again were'taking their time' so Sutton quite rightly improved the situation by getting in their face and nicking the ball.A tuesday evening in Winter in London as I remember and we were getting anxious in the last 5 minutes away at Arsenal...good days.

I'm pretty sure it was a Saturday afternoon.

I was at the match and didn't realise what all the fuss from the Arsenal fans was about till I got home.

[RevidgeBlue]

Rev

1] He wasn't telling the keeper to take it from somewhere else was he?

2] I'm arguing the technicalities, because that's the argument of the people who say the free kick was technically valid. Many players will walk over to take a free kick, but simply roll the ball over with their feet, even after the ref has blown his whistle for the free kick to be taken, maybe a couple of feet, just to find a flatter piece of ground. If an opponent was to run in and take the ball, after that first touch the referee 100 times out of 100 wouldn't allow it.

WHY?

1) He was (Wrongly) assuming the keeper could just take the free kick from wherever it came to rest - after the referee had already indicated where it should be taken from. He wasn't saying to the keeper "here's the ball put it back on the correct spot where I'm stood."

2) If the referee has indicated it's good to go and the attacker tries moving the ball by foot I can't see anything wrong with defenders closing the ball down.

[Guest bluerovers]

Rev

1] He wasn't telling the keeper to take it from somewhere else was he?

If the ball was in the right place why not run forward leaving the ball and let the keeper come to it to take it? What benefit is it to kick it to the keeper for him to only have to replace it back where Turner kicked it from anyway?

2] I'm arguing the technicalities, because that's the argument of the people who say the free kick was technically valid. Many players will walk over to take a free kick, but simply roll the ball over with their feet, even after the ref has blown his whistle for the free kick to be taken, maybe a couple of feet, just to find a flatter piece of ground. If an opponent was to run in and take the ball, after that first touch the referee 100 times out of 100 wouldn't allow it.

WHY?

Firstly I don't think this happens nearly as much as you are implying. IMO a player is far more likely to use his hands to reposition the ball (for goal scoring free kicks anyway) if not the only reason he should be kicking it is to move it closer to the position the ref has indicated it should be taken from. The reason another player can't run in at this point is because the ball hasn't been taken from the correct position yet. In this case the ball was stationary and in the correct position before Turner kicked it, that is why it was a valid free kick and why a player moving the ball with his feet isn't.

It goes without saying that you can't move the ball to a flatter piece of land, it has to be taken from where the foul occurred.

[den]

1) He was (Wrongly) assuming the keeper could just take the free kick from wherever it came to rest - after the referee had already indicated where it should be taken from. He wasn't saying to the keeper "here's the ball put it back on the correct spot where I'm stood."

2) If the referee has indicated it's good to go and the attacker tries moving the ball by foot I can't see anything wrong with defenders closing the ball down.

1] No he wasn't Rev, you have no reason to think that.

2] It never happens because players know the ref wouldn't allow it.

[92er]

That's probably because you can't score a goal from an indirect free kick?

Just a pure guess

The way I read it was that scoring an own goal from a direct free kick to your team cannot stand-so that any player taking a direct free kick, turning round and beating his own keeper instead of kicking in the direction of the opposition's goal will not have the satisfaction of seeing the goal stand for the other team.

All he'll have given them will be a corner.

Very obscure.

[S15]

Oh come on, to use a shiltoism it was near as dammit

That picture tells the entire story.

Can anybody hand on heart tell me that looks like a player taking a free kick?

[Hi Mack]

People who play football will say the goal should have been disallowed!

People who dont understand football entirely will say it should be given as a goal!

And to say Turner has no right to kick the ball back to the keeper

It is blatantly obvious the keeper was suppose to take the free kick!

It all just proves again Attwell isn't yet up to it.........yet!

[S15]

People who play football will say the goal should have been disallowed!

People who dont understand football entirely will say it should be given as a goal!

Perfectly put.

[RevidgeBlue]

2] It never happens because players know the ref wouldn't allow it.

It does happen sometimes when two players are over a direct free kick and they roll the ball a foot sideways. The defenders then charge the ball down.

The attackers can't then say "sorry we weren't ready"

[Guest bluerovers]

[den]

lol, fair do's on that one

[RevidgeBlue]

People who play football will say the goal should have been disallowed!

People who dont understand football entirely will say it should be given as a goal!

And to say Turner has no right to kick the ball back to the keeper

It is blatantly obvious the keeper was suppose to take the free kick!

It all just proves again Attwell isn't yet up to it.........yet!

What absolute rubbish!

Why was the keeper supposed to take the kick? The referee indicated where the kick should be taken from and that was where Dawson was stood.

How does that translate into the keeper "obviously" taking the kick?

Edit: And Turner obviously can do whatever he wants, play it back to the keeper properly or flick it a few yards. He can't however choose to do that and pretend it isn't in play.

[S15]

Rev, just look at the picture.

Are you telling me he's taking a free kick?