[Archived] Other PL happenings 2010-2011

[Ricky]

Agree with you Hughesy, mainly because Philip thinks they will

[philipl]

If the Court OKs what Martin Broughton has done before next Friday, there will be no need for RBS to put Kop Football into administration.

For the Judges and Appeal Judges to hold quick hearings there has to be real and present danger to the business- hence talking up the 9 points deduction threat with the PL helpfully joining in now despite saying last night Kop Holdings going into administration would not cause Liverpool to suffer a 9 point hit.

Ricky, you'd better revise your opinion.

What I said was that if the Dallas Court does not rescind its position, RBS would certainly look at Administration.

A Restrictive Order could affect all RBS and Wells Fargo's US operations open-endedly. Hicks is so kamikaze he is bound to use the frustration of the Dallas restraining order just as he is now seeking Martin Broughton's arrest and $50k per day fines.

In those circumstances, RBS could have no option but to remove the threat to its greater business and kill the case by eliminating Kop Football by going straight to administration. At that point Hicks has no case for protecting potential losses and he has to go for a suit recovering his losses, not a restraining order.

[PAFELL]

Ricky, you'd better revise your opinion.

What I said was that if the Dallas Court does not rescind its position, RBS would certainly look at Administration.

A Restrictive Order could affect all RBS and Wells Fargo's US operations open-endedly. Hicks is so kamikaze he is bound to use the frustration of the Dallas restraining order just as he is now seeking Martin Broughton's arrest and $50k per day fines.

In those circumstances, RBS could have no option but to remove the threat to its greater business and kill the case by eliminating Kop Football by going straight to administration. At that point Hicks has no case for protecting potential losses and he has to go for a suit recovering his losses, not a restraining order.

RBS are the ones who have set the debt settlement date. If they see a deal on the cards for liverpool, could they not choose to move the date. After all if liverpool went into administration it would devalue the club.

My understanding is that the law in the USA will not be able to effect the situation. At the end of the day liverpool football club is an english business.

[PAFELL]

Im pretty sure that no matter what, Liverpool wont go into Admin & WONT get a 9 point deduction.

Either way the 15th October 2010 will be a day to forget. Liverpool taken over and Rovers are still talking about it. As the club says, 'business as usual'.

Though for all this Due dilligence stuff we have read on this site, it shows that business / buy out schedules can be changed whenever they chose to do so. How long has it taken liverpool to be sold, 2 weeks.

[Ricky]

Ricky, you'd better revise your opinion.

What I said was that if the Dallas Court does not rescind its position, RBS would certainly look at Administration.

A Restrictive Order could affect all RBS and Wells Fargo's US operations open-endedly. Hicks is so kamikaze he is bound to use the frustration of the Dallas restraining order just as he is now seeking Martin Broughton's arrest and $50k per day fines.

In those circumstances, RBS could have no option but to remove the threat to its greater business and kill the case by eliminating Kop Football by going straight to administration. At that point Hicks has no case for protecting potential losses and he has to go for a suit recovering his losses, not a restraining order.

Administration it is then

[47er]

RBS are the ones who have set the debt settlement date. If they see a deal on the cards for liverpool, could they not choose to move the date. After all if liverpool went into administration it would devalue the club.

My understanding is that the law in the USA will not be able to effect the situation. At the end of the day liverpool football club is an english business.

Yes but the problem is that the existing owners and the prospective owners are both American. Surely be unwise for them to ignore an American Court no matter how daft the situation is.

[Hughesy]

Interesting that Hicks has been setting up a deal with Mill behind the scenes and rumours are that he's agreed to sell them to them instead....Where does that leave RBS? They have a deal with NESV, Hicks has a deal with someone else!?

[PAFELL]

Yes but the problem is that the existing owners and the prospective owners are both American. Surely be unwise for them to ignore an American Court no matter how daft the situation is.

But the football club as well as the bank owed the debt are British. Would not the British court take precedence over any other countries law, with regards to British matters or business. As you say the existing owners and the perspective owners are both American, but would only come under american law in america. Same as if any of us were arrested abroad, that countries law would take precedence. Surely the same applies here.

Interesting that Hicks has been setting up a deal with Mill behind the scenes and rumours are that he's agreed to sell them to them instead....Where does that leave RBS? They have a deal with NESV, Hicks has a deal with someone else!?

RBS don't have a deal with NESV. The latter has a deal with liverpool FC. RBS just want their money paid back that they loaned out. They don't lose whoever owns the club.

[Earlydoors]

I think Mill are already in it for £75m from Gilletts stake.

If they give RBS £240m + £40 late repayment and then sell to Henry / Lim for £355m they break even

Simples........

Er, hang on there's Hicks too, so his stake is worth between £1 and £75m. That would have to be added on.

[adopted scouser]

Hicks and Gillett have dropped the injunction

[den]

A good, current assessment of the situation.

[Steve Moss]

RBS are the ones who have set the debt settlement date. If they see a deal on the cards for liverpool, could they not choose to move the date. After all if liverpool went into administration it would devalue the club.

My understanding is that the law in the USA will not be able to effect the situation. At the end of the day liverpool football club is an english business.

But the football club as well as the bank owed the debt are British. Would not the British court take precedence over any other countries law, with regards to British matters or business. As you say the existing owners and the perspective owners are both American, but would only come under american law in america. Same as if any of us were arrested abroad, that countries law would take precedence. Surely the same applies here.

If the relevant contracts contain choice of law and venue clauses, those should trump other considerations.

If the contracts are silent, I agree with you that English law should control. That does not defeat the jurisdiction of the US Courts, though. It would only require that it apply English law. In the US, a simplistic test for whether a Court has juridiction over the parties (H&G, NESV and RBS) is whether they have signficiant contacts with the state in question. If yes, then it has jurisdiction. I suspect this is the case with RBS, NESV and H&G.

NESV and RBS could attempt to defeat Texas jurisidiction by alleging Liverpool FC as an entity likely has no significant contacts with Texas. H&G would respond that Liverpool FC is merely the asset being battled over, the persons doing the battling all have signficant contacts with Texas and so the breach of contract/fiduciary duty case should proceed. Without detailed information, it would be a toss up which means RBS and NESV could be in a jam.

RBS's hypothetical nightmare scenario would be that the contracts are silent as to choice of law and venue and H&G and RBS negotiated and/or signed the contracts in Texas. That would be a possibility for today's jet setting inter-national commercial types. It wouldn't defeat RBS' sale of Liverpool FC to NESV, but it would expose the parties to that sale to scrutiny of the Texas Court on the issue of whether the price was reasonable or whether breaches of fiduciary duty occurred.

Interesting that Hicks has been setting up a deal with Mill behind the scenes and rumours are that he's agreed to sell them to them instead....Where does that leave RBS? They have a deal with NESV, Hicks has a deal with someone else!?

RBS is a creditor. H&G are debtors. If the time to pay the debt is today, and H&G pay, then RBS is out of the equation. I doubt RBS can refuse timely payment from its debtors. The issue then becomes whether Broughton (a director owing fiduciary duties to the shareholders, H&G) obtained a reasonable price for Liverpool FC. If H&G don't pay RBS, then I suspect the answer is yes as he would have cleared the debt in the face of administration. If H&G pay, and there is a paper trial where H&G told him they would pay (and I suspect there is, H&G like to talk big), then he's in a jam.

[den]

Sky "sources" are reporting that the Premier have rejected a request from Mills Financial, to take the directors and owners test.

[Steve Moss]

Sky "sources" are reporting that the Premier have rejected a request from Mills Financial, to take the directors and owners test.

This is interesting. I don't like H&G. I think their arrogant, deceitful windbags. On the other hand, it is beginning to look as if a number of entities are acting in a manner designed to ensure that they can't redeem the debt they owe RBS and thus lose control of Liverpool FC. While this seems like a good thing, it will only fuel their case for damages.

[67splitscreen]

Deal done according to the press association. My link

Edit Sky also have the story now. My link

BBC as well My link

Done deal then. Part two to follow, let battle commence for damages.

[USRoverME]

hrm, now I have to start wondering, I live in NESN's broadcasting area, and NESN in basically NESV's TV arm for the Red Sox and other Boston aea sports. Does this mean I'm going to get Liverpool games on local TV, or just Liverpool advertising and the like shoved down my throat.

[cn174]

hrm, now I have to start wondering, I live in NESN's broadcasting area, and NESN in basically NESV's TV arm for the Red Sox and other Boston aea sports. Does this mean I'm going to get Liverpool games on local TV, or just Liverpool advertising and the like shoved down my throat.

I think you might do.

ColeJ who used to post on here a lot, but doesn't anymore, is a Dallas Stars fan. When Hicks & Gillette first got in charge, and Hicks was still at Stars, he used to get advertising which basically said 'if you're a Stars fan, you're a Liverpool fan', 'show your support to Liverpool' bla bla :angry2:

[USRoverME]

I think you might do.

ColeJ who used to post on here a lot, but doesn't anymore, is a Dallas Stars fan. When Hicks & Gillette first got in charge, and Hicks was still at Stars, he used to get advertising which basically said 'if you're a Stars fan, you're a Liverpool fan', 'show your support to Liverpool' bla bla :angry2:

Hopefully, Henry has more sense than that. There are a lot of British (mostly Irish) ties in the Boston area. I doubt that trying to force Liverpool fandom down their throats will work. But at the same time, even Non-Liverpool fans might appreciate a bit more of the sport on the TV, if they have the rights to air the games.

One possible interesting buisness side note that may or may not be an issue (sinc eI have no concept of how the TV contracts work in England).. what TV rights to the individual clubs have to their own product? I know that the league as a whole sells the rights, hence the huge income Rovers gets, even if they are rarely in featured games. However, are there local rights as well? Does LFC have any rights to that product? One of the biggest differences between the haves and have nots in Baseball, for example, is that Boston, the Yankees anda few others have MASSIVE local TV revenues, to the point of having their own TV stations, basically, whereas lesser market teams can't make that sort of money. If there's any angle for NESV and LFC to generte that sort of side business in a media form (TV or internet I'm thinking are most likely) then this may be the next 'arms race' platform in the sport in terms of generating more cashflow.

I admit, this is idle speculation that may not be possible at all, but just a thought.

[philipl]

Henry Winter tweets

Now that the Texan desperadoes have been run out of #LFC..English football needs to get those Florida carpetbaggers the Glazers out of #MUFC

[thenodrog]

Henry Winter tweets

Now that the Texan desperadoes have been run out of #LFC..English football needs to get those Florida carpetbaggers the Glazers out of #MUFC

I don't tweet gunner. Afraid it all sounds a little bit gay to me. However all they've done imo is replace one set of profiteering septics with another. Whats the big deal? Henry is in this to make money too and anybody who thinks any different is a fool. So why does Winter want the same for MU too? Does he hate em as much as everybody else! Personally I'd love to see em all crash and burn on the inferno started by their own greed!

[47er]

Henry Winter tweets

Now that the Texan desperadoes have been run out of #LFC..English football needs to get those Florida carpetbaggers the Glazers out of #MUFC

And have Manu buying Premierships again? I hope the Glaziers own them forever.

[koi]

The fitness test must be able to be done dam quick that's all I can say.

[BuckyRover]

A blatant dive and a bad red card.

Wenger you sanctimonious twonk

[Doaksie]

Apparently a bad one from Wilshere. It will be interesting to see the coverage this one receives. I'm sure Wenger won't have seen it properly yet, however I do hope Danny Murphy catches it tonight during Match of the Day.

[JoeBlueWhite]

Arsene can say it's effective and they have got to win games but the fact is the managers are sending out their players so pumped up there are inevitably going to be problems.

Your manager dictates what your players do and how you behave.