[Archived] Other PL happenings 2010-2011

[S15]

Ooh, got my 30p at the ready!

While Bale looks simian-like, I doubt he has the chest hair to match Giggs. Football terms - we'll see how many league medals Bale accumulates?

Giggs has more hair in his eye brows than Bale has on his entire body.

That's the sign of a real man.

[Miker]

Much as it pains me to say it - I deeply dislike Spurs - they are finally putting together some excellent players and actually getting results. Over the last six or so years Spurs have not been too far off the 'big four' in terms of quality on paper but never really threatened to gel as a team.

Now they are doing that and if you look at the depth of the squad it is even stronger than previously, plus some outstanding individuals like Van Der Vaart and Bale. Stick a Drogba or a Torres up front, get King and Woodgate fit, and they would be Premiership contenders.

Have to give Redknapp a lot of respect for what he has achieved with what has been a dysfunctional club until last season.

If they had a fit King and Woodgate they would really be a force, but even with the defenders they have now they are still very strong. They really are only missing a top quality striker, but the forwards that have come in: Crouch, Defoe and Pav are doing a tremendous job and I have always been a huge fan of the Crouch/Defoe partnership.

[Hughesy]

If they had a fit King and Woodgate they would really be a force, but even with the defenders they have now they are still very strong. They really are only missing a top quality striker, but the forwards that have come in: Crouch, Defoe and Pav are doing a tremendous job and I have always been a huge fan of the Crouch/Defoe partnership.

I know a few spurs fans & most dont rate either full backs & feel they need to sign a central defender like Gary Cahill.

[frosty]

feel they need to sign a central defender like Gary Cahill.

They've got loads of centre backs........King, Dawson, Bassong, Gallas, I think Woodgate is still alive too?

[philipl]

Bale is the true test of the PL.

He is at a club without money problems so if he were to move abroad it would prove the league is sinking into second class mediocrity.

Incidentally the folks at Spurs were always incredibly excited by this lad- even when he was the totem loser of a left back.

[G Somerset Rover]

He's already way better than Giggs ever was.

You're on a wind up surely?

Take a look at a few of the goals Giggs scored at a similar age.

[Miker]

I know a few spurs fans & most dont rate either full backs & feel they need to sign a central defender like Gary Cahill.

I've always rated Corluka as a RB, Assou-Ekotto is decent, but you're probably right... full back is their weakest position.

[Hughesy]

They've got loads of centre backs........King, Dawson, Bassong, Gallas, I think Woodgate is still alive too?

King - CROCK

Dawson - CROCK

Woodgate - FINISHED

Gallas - Ageing & coming to an end, hence his Arsenal release

Bassong - TOP defender???

[LDRover]

I remember posting that Bale would be an ideal replacement for Warnock on here about 12 months ago when he wasn't getting a look in at Spurs.

OK he's not shown it at full back (yet - I believe he still could) but it just goes to show I can spot a player.

God, I'm good.

[T4E]

After what? about 5 games this season? He's realising his potential, but to say he's already the best player in the universe after two games in Europe is madness.

Are you saying that Giggs is the best player in the universe? Because I'm certainly not. My post was more aimed as a slight on Giggs than it was a compliment to Bale.

T4E is playing the WUM... I hope

Not at all.

You're on a wind up surely?

Take a look at a few of the goals Giggs scored at a similar age.

I've never seen Giggs tear past players the way Bale does, with the pace he has. I've never seen him finish with the unerring accuracy Bale has (see the 3 goals in the San Siro, incredible accuracy). His extremely rare good runs usually involve being tackled/losing possesion only for it to break back in to his path (see the famous Arsenal FA Cup goal as an example).

The fact is, I've never rated Giggs all that highly. He undoubtedly has incredible conditioning which has allowed him to play at this level for so long. However, why has there never been a genuine bid by another club to prise him away? As far as I can remember there has never been sustained speculation about his future, unlike the Beckhams, Rooneys, Ronaldos etc that have played in the same team as him, that were genuinely great players.

He's also played in every Premier League season, and only just scored his 100th goal. Thats 19 seasons, averaging 5 goals a season. Playing in an attacking position for by far the most dominant team in that period. He's a good player, and his longevity cannot be questioned, but he's nowhere near as good as people think. I just don't subscribe to the notion that sticking around for longer than everyone else makes you great. If it does then Brett Emerton is our best player.

Bale on the other hand is a genuine Worldie.

Bale is the true test of the PL.

He is at a club without money problems so if he were to move abroad it would prove the league is sinking into second class mediocrity.

Incidentally the folks at Spurs were always incredibly excited by this lad- even when he was the totem loser of a left back.

Do you have to tag something that implies you have inside knowledge on the end of every bloody post? Up until that point your observation was spot on, why let your ego ruin it?

[47er]

King - CROCK

Dawson - CROCK

Woodgate - FINISHED

Gallas - Ageing & coming to an end, hence his Arsenal release

Bassong - TOP defender???

The above is why we should be really worried---Samba/Jones

[jim mk2]

I've never seen Giggs tear past players the way Bale does, with the pace he has. I've never seen him finish with the unerring accuracy Bale has (see the 3 goals in the San Siro, incredible accuracy). His extremely rare good runs usually involve being tackled/losing possesion only for it to break back in to his path (see the famous Arsenal FA Cup goal as an example).

The fact is, I've never rated Giggs all that highly. He undoubtedly has incredible conditioning which has allowed him to play at this level for so long. However, why has there never been a genuine bid by another club to prise him away? I just don't subscribe to the notion that sticking around for longer than everyone else makes you great

Dear oh dear.

Sometime you can let the rubbish posted on here go unchallenged but this is too much.

You obviously never saw the younger Giggs flying past defenders while the older Giggs has been and continues to be one of the best players in the PL and one the best players this country has produced over the past 25 years. He has proved his quality season after season for the past 18 years, testament to his fitness and longevity as a player and his ability to survive at United which is well known as a club for getting rid of players once they reach their sell-by date. Why should he leave OT ? Beckham would still be there if he hadn't fallen out with RFW.

Bale by contrast has had half a good season. Let's see if he's still around 5 years from now never mind flying past geriatric full backs shall we ?

[T4E]

Giggs has not proved his quality season after season, thats the point. From his attacking position he has only managed to score more than 10 league goals twice in 19 seasons. He has scored 5 or less in 13 of them. For someone playing his position in such a fantastic team, that is a very poor return for someone apparently so talented.

Opinion is one thing - I respect that yours is different to mine - but the figures seem to back up my view that he's not as good as people think.

[Mattyblue]

Interesting points T4E, I agree Giggs has never scored bundles of goals, but to say Bale, who has turned it on in a dozen or so games- who knows this could be a golden run of form is 'way better than Giggs ever was', a player that has been at the top for TWENTY YEARS is a bit of a sretch!

[T4E]

I probably shouldnt have said "way better". I do however think that Bale has shown things this season that Giggs hasn't shown in 20. He's a more talented player in my opinion.

[DE.]

Giggs' lack of goals may seem surprisingly initially but it should probably be remembered that United regularly played two up front for much of the time Giggs has been there (up until RVN's arrival, anyway), and the two up there were normally world-class strikers banging in the goals. As long as Giggs created opportunities for said strikers they'd probably score, so I'd say goalscoring is not really representative of his real talent.

[Majiball]

Doesn't Ryan Giggs hold the record for the most assists in the premier league period???

[T4E]

Giggs' lack of goals may seem surprisingly initially but it should probably be remembered that United regularly played two up front for much of the time Giggs has been there (up until RVN's arrival, anyway), and the two up there were normally world-class strikers banging in the goals. As long as Giggs created opportunities for said strikers they'd probably score, so I'd say goalscoring is not really representative of his real talent.

Just to expand on that, I'll compare Giggs to two other players, Scholes and Beckham.

In all competitions (comparable statistic for league games only at the end) -

Giggs has scored 157 goals in 847 games, 0.19 goals per game. (0.18)

Beckham scored 87 goals in 399 games, 0.22 goals per game. (0.23)

Scholes has scored 150 goals in 655 games, 0.23 goals per game. (0.22)

I don't have the same stats available for assists, but I wouldnt be surprised to see Giggs 3rd of the 3 on that either. For an apparently brilliant left winger to be outscored by a dead ball specialist like Beckham really does say it all for me.

Doesn't Ryan Giggs hold the record for the most assists in the premier league period???

Considering he's played in every season, there's a chance he does. Impressive as it would be, it needs to be compared to others over shorter periods to measure his effectiveness.

[Commondore]

Just to expand on that, I'll compare Giggs to two other players, Scholes and Beckham.

In all competitions (comparable statistic for league games only at the end) -

Giggs has scored 157 goals in 847 games, 0.19 goals per game. (0.18)

Beckham scored 87 goals in 399 games, 0.22 goals per game. (0.23)

Scholes has scored 150 goals in 655 games, 0.23 goals per game. (0.22)

I really don't see how you could slag Giggs solely based on his goalscoring. Do you think Lampard is a greater player than Zidane as well?

[Majiball]

Just to expand on that, I'll compare Giggs to two other players, Scholes and Beckham.

In all competitions (comparable statistic for league games only at the end) -

Giggs has scored 157 goals in 847 games, 0.19 goals per game. (0.18)

Beckham scored 87 goals in 399 games, 0.22 goals per game. (0.23)

Scholes has scored 150 goals in 655 games, 0.23 goals per game. (0.22)

I don't have the same stats available for assists, but I wouldnt be surprised to see Giggs 3rd of the 3 on that either. For an apparently brilliant left winger to be outscored by a dead ball specialist like Beckham really does say it all for me.

Considering he's played in every season, there's a chance he does. Impressive as it would be, it needs to be compared to others over shorter periods to measure his effectiveness.

Scholes has played almost every season as well, Giggs is above him for both goals and assists. Ryan Giggs has created more goals than another other player in the history of the premier league, fact. And that's based on stats since 2001, almost every season he had created at least 8 goals, thats great going for a winger. Even last year he created 11 goals, Bale is not even in the top 20. I believe he is credited with 289 assists in just over 535 games, 1 in 2 although apparently records are unclear before 2001.

Bale if he maintains his form will be a great player, but Giggs is a great player.

[DE.]

http://futbal.org/EC1.scorers.php

Giggs is also the top British scorer in ECL/European Cup history, so it's not all bad as far as goalscoring goes

[T4E]

I really don't see how you could slag Giggs solely based on his goalscoring. Do you think Lampard is a greater player than Zidane as well?

Zidane has never played in the Premier League, all my comparisons have been between players in directly comparable situations.

Scholes has played almost every season as well, Giggs is above him for both goals and assists.

Giggs has played 193 games more than Scholes and scored 7 more goals. Pro-rata he is well down. Scholes didnt debut until the 3rd season of the Premier League, Giggs was a regular the season before the league started. That stat does not reflect well on Giggs.

The assists bit is interesting, I'll take your word for it. I would still like to know his assists/games compared to Scholes - do you have access to that info?

http://futbal.org/EC1.scorers.php

Giggs is also the top British scorer in ECL/European Cup history, so it's not all bad as far as goalscoring goes

I can't see what you are referring to on that link? Impressive stat though if true. According to wiki he has 27 goals in 129 games in the Champions League, 0.21 per game. Having said that he's played the third most games in the history of the competition. I think this backs up my overall point again - his productivity isn't as high as it should be for someone that has been around so long.

[Ray-Von]

Neither Bale or Giggs were as good as John Barnes was in his late 80's pomp for Liverpool.

Only my opinion of course

[Sparky Marky]

Neither Bale or Giggs were as good as John Barnes was in his late 80's pomp for Liverpool.

Or Noel Brotherston...

[Majiball]

Giggs has played 193 games more than Scholes and scored 7 more goals. Pro-rata he is well down. Scholes didnt debut until the 3rd season of the Premier League, Giggs was a regular the season before the league started. That stat does not reflect well on Giggs.

The assists bit is interesting, I'll take your word for it. I would still like to know his assists/games compared to Scholes - do you have access to that info?

Data before 2001 is patchy its only because Giggs has the most that I can readily extract it, but I wouldn't say it was 100% accurate. I can however provide Scholes from 2001, 29 assists, to Ryan's 100. Those figures include this season as well and cover all competitions.