[Archived] Rovers Thugs

[rebelmswar]

I respect that.

[tony gale's mic]

I don't know if it is "the" answer, but it is "an" answer, a perfectly adequate one too. Not to mention that its historically a right of a free people, as opposed to down trodden slaves and surfs..

Yep, an adequate answer. Do you think these statistics have anything to do with everyone in the states having the right to bear arms?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

Carrying a gun is no more a right of a free people than carrying a samurai sword.

It's one hell of a twisted society that puts the right to bear arms over the right to healthcare for all....

[Henwah]

If everyone has guns, nobody is free.

I would rather live in a country where guns are illegal. I will never change my views on that.

I'd agree with that - I'd rather be punched twice in the face than shot twice in the face

The 'my weapons bigger than yours' mentality only results in the escalation of relatively minor incidents and fisticuffs, to somewhat more serious ones

[rebelmswar]

Should we remove the offenders arms then. Because we cant have f offensive weapons.

[Henwah]

Should we remove the offenders arms then. Because we cant have f offensive weapons.

I'd be fine with that

[rebelmswar]

We agree on something then.

[Steve Moss]

If everyone has guns, nobody is free.

I would rather live in a country where guns are illegal. I will never change my views on that.

No one is asking you to. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is dead wrong.

Carrying a gun is no more a right of a free people than carrying a samurai sword.

It's one hell of a twisted society that puts the right to bear arms over the right to healthcare for all....

But free people do have a right to carry a samuarai sword. Not that I see many about. A pistol is far more effective. And as a bit of anecdotal evidence, plenty of people carrying pistols (poorly concealed) in Arizona and I haven't witnessed a wild west shoot out yet.

And on the issue of healthcare for all as being a "freedom", I disagree. "Free" services = someone other than the recipient paying the bill.

[LeChuck]

How can carrying a gun be a right?

The only reason you would carry a gun is with the intent of using it on another person, therefore impacting on their right to live.

Crazy!

[rebelmswar]

I personally prefer to use it on deer. But if some fool wishes to break into my house, I will gladly send them out backwards, weighing about three ounces more.

[tony gale's mic]

But free people do have a right to carry a samuarai sword. Not that I see many about. A pistol is far more effective. And as a bit of anecdotal evidence, plenty of people carrying pistols (poorly concealed) in Arizona and I haven't witnessed a wild west shoot out yet.

And on the issue of healthcare for all as being a "freedom", I disagree. "Free" services = someone other than the recipient paying the bill.

The freedom from being shot is far more important than the freedom to carry a gun.

Your anecdotal evidence means nothing in the face of the following facts:

The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36

Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07

Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10

Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04

Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10

Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10

France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49

England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03

Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02

Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0

As for universal healthcare - that argument holds absolutely no water. Should all education be provided through private measures too? What about someone whos child develops a serious illness but who can't afford the treatment and pick up the bill?! Should their child die, or is it in fact a responsibility of the society around them to ensure that everyone has a basic standard of well being?

But emotive arguments aside, the US spends DOUBLE its GDP per year on healthcare compared to countries with socialised medicine systems (around 16% vs 8%). In return for that you get a healthcare system ranked by the WHO as around 40th in the world, much lower than prety much every country in Western Europe.

[bellamy11]

I demand to hear what Nicko's opinion is on every topic mentioned in this thread.

[bob fleming]

I personally prefer to use it on deer. But if some fool wishes to break into my house, I will gladly send them out backwards, weighing about three ounces more.

Oh the irony. Your "profile" claims that you're round at my mothers house which is somewhat disturbing in it's own right - but they're away on holiday. Just get out will you and leave everything as it was.

[rebelmswar]

But the sofa is so comfortable and i love the floral pattern curtains.

I will leave some reddies on the kitchen counter for the food.

[CrazyIvan]

But the sofa is so comfortable and i love the floral pattern curtains.

I will leave some reddies on the kitchen counter for the food.

I thought you were going to say 'I will leave.... a going away present on the kitchen floor' for a moment there...

[bob fleming]

i love the floral pattern curtains.

Panic over, that's defintely not her house then. You carry on.

[broadsword]

Sounds genius to me, next time someone asks you where you come from, open fire and blow them away.

Get this drunken scum off the streets.

[Ricky]

This thread has deteriorated into petty bickering and name calling.

There seems absolutely no point in leaving it open.