[Archived] Stoke Preview

[DE.]

Some people on here need a serious reality check. I'm not especially disappointed because quite frankly I never expected us to win this one. Stoke are like a more talented version of us - talent brought in with money we simply don't have. Whilst they can go out and spunk 8M on Kenwyn Jones and pay Gudjonsson whatever ridiculous wage he's on, we can't cough up the cash to afford a Bulgarian playing in an obscure league for 1.5M. That's the reality and the financial difference between the two clubs. Couple that with Stoke's excellent home form and anything other than a loss would have been a great result. Stoke aren't the same team that came up a couple of seasons back, they've spent big and spent reasonably well.

We were dire, for what it's worth, and I can see why people would be disappointed with the way we played football. The BBC interview with Allardyce was quite disheartening, he lambasted Samba and Nelsen for the goal, and when asked if he was worried by the lack of clear cut chances we create he said "no, that's not how we play" then gave his usual speech about how we haven't got 8M to spend on a Kenwyn Jones etc etc.

Fact is, we're going to struggle this year. Anybody believing we should be achieving a top-half finish needs to take off the blue-and-white specs and realise that it's simply not going to happen. It's depressing but unfortunately true. Almost every team in this league has more money than us, even Bolton and Wigan, and in time that's going to take its toll. Finishing 10th last season was a fantastic achievement, but it was achieved mainly because teams like Sunderland never got going and the three relegated clubs were shocking. This year the league is tougher - there will be less teams underachieving and the clubs that have come up are a lot stronger than those of last year.

All we can really do is hope Allardyce's tactics keep our heads above water until January and that the takeover happens before then.

[BPF]

Do you think Mourinio or Ferguson could do any better with our pathetic excuse of a squad, show me the door, Play football make me laugh. We'd lose 6 nil every week

If that was homework handed in to me, I would have marked it in the following way:

2 / 5 (E)

Strength - You have noticed one issue.

Weakness - You seem to be lacking understanding on the topic.

No board member is expecting us to play Real Madrid esq football, many of you seem to believe that to be the case.

What we are looking for is our players to look up, run into space and look for the ball. THE BASICS.

What we are sick of is:

Smack it up without looking, you never know....we may get lucky.

Sam's style of play is what I call the 'All in'

In poker if you go all in with nothing every time you will get lucky every now and again. But the majority of the time it leads to nothing and heavy losses.

Sam's football is exactly this.

[Fife Rover]

Never mind lads - come along to the Crown ground if you want entertainment, 100% commitment and brilliant one touch play, plus lethal finishing.

And THEY won 7-4 today. Hooray!!!

[imy9]

There were a number of occasions I wanted to see someone take on the defender or at least get to the by line and cross the ball.the constant hoof it into the box is not going to work the number of times we do it,i would like to see some variety.

Hand on heart I would want to see a change of management if we were bought and I am pro sam and still am.

[roversmum]

Interesting views from folks who got home pretty early from the match considering it took us until 7.15pm to get home... The boys did their best today, can't fault any of them for effort in my opinion. It wasn't all hoofball, a lot of end to end stuff as well. Stoke were quicker on to the ball, they were good at pushing our players out of the way, they fell over a fair bit for big lads, a lax moment and they scored, it could easily have been Rovers who scored, the ball just didn't fall our way. I understand Sam was upset about their goal (weren't we all) but he shouldn't berate individual players publicly, we've some difficult matches coming up and they need the confidence to go for it.

[Amo]

Interesting views from folks who got home pretty early from the match considering it took us until 7.15pm to get home... The boys did their best today, can't fault any of them for effort in my opinion. It wasn't all hoofball, a lot of end to end stuff as well. Stoke were quicker on to the ball, they were good at pushing our players out of the way, they fell over a fair bit for big lads, a lax moment and they scored, it could easily have been Rovers who scored, the ball just didn't fall our way. I understand Sam was upset about their goal (weren't we all) but he shouldn't berate individual players publicly, we've some difficult matches coming up and they need the confidence to go for it.

I'm sorry, Mum, but that's just not true. Stoke carved open a series of chances and could have put the game out of sight. We, on the other hand, created next to nothing. Let's leave the rub of the green excuses for our Sam.

[ROVERS]

The almost uniform overreaction on here is pathetic. We were crap today, no doubt about it, but there is no need for so much rubbish to be written.

The ugly football was appalling to watch but it'll work against the vast majority of sides in this division and we will stay up playing it - as we did last season. A poor game away at Stoke wont, and shouldnt suddenly scrap that.

Simply put, we havent got the players to be effective playing any other way. We havent got the money to purchase better players to play any other way and we have had success (relatively speaking) playing the way we are.

Am I defending Sam? No, not particularly, but im not looking at it in such a blunt one dimensional view. I know Sam would probably play this way regardless of what players he had at his disposal, however, as Ince proved, we dont have players who are capable enough to play pretty football and beat teams and that is that. Regardless of how you want to view Sam's tactics, with our players we have hardly any alternatives. Stay up ugly or go down pretty.

he played the same way even at newcastle with money at his disposal + players capable to play in many other ways.

you mean we don't have players to play any other ways??? how did you even arrive at such a statement????

[EnglishChris]

See i did say we always loose when i go to away games, oweel I'm not going to Liverpool away so can't be blamed for that defeat

[92er]

We are at the start of October, two months till the window

3 months I think.

[Parsonblue]

I thought it was a pretty even game for the most part. I felt we played pretty well at times, particularly in the first half, and looked comfortable at 0-0. We were undone when Samba allowed himself to get the wrong side of Walters. If he had stayed goalside of Walters the former Rover wouldn't have been able to race into the area. It was a moment's lapse. An individual error - that happens.

I don't think its any secret that once we go behind we are always going to struggle because of our lack of quality going forward. Matters weren't helped when El-Hadji had to be replaced after Webb had booked him early in the second half. I thought he sent in the superb crosses in the first half and was a constant threat down the left wing.

I go to every game, home and away, and I find the attitude to the manager by a section of our crowd difficult to understand. Everybody knows the style of football that Sam plays. I certainly don't think it's as bad as many would have us believe and I have certainly seen far worse over the past 50 years at Ewood. However, the manager has a set of beliefs and it was because of his past record that he was appointed the manager of the club. He has become hugely popular with the players and has delivered decent results and a mid-table position last season on a smaller budget than the overwhelming majority of mid-table clubs.

This summer he has been able to pick up a cast off from Manchester City on a free and a reserve from Old Trafford on loan. Every club in the division outspent us in the summer. The clubs who we see as our immediate rivals like Stoke, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland etc have all spent money to strengthen their squads.

I believe the manager was right to leave Kalinic out today as the game was not the type in which he would flourish. I thought Brett did a good job on the right but I would accept that we lack firepower - with or without Kalinic. However, when Sunderland can spend £8 million on Jones and we have the rely on loans and free transfers it shouldn't really be all that surprising that this is the area of the field where we struggle.

I agree with roversmum to a certain extent. There was very little between the teams and ultimately it came down to an individual positional error that presented Stoke with an opportunity they took.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

he played the same way even at newcastle with money at his disposal + players capable to play in many other ways.

you mean we don't have players to play any other ways??? how did you even arrive at such a statement????

Well do we? Do we have a fit playmaker? To play on the floor effectively you have to have creativity. We dont have that. Diouf and Pedersen on their days can influence a game but we need somebody centrally who can orchestrate regularly. Somebody of Bentley's quality is exactly who we're missing. Without that creative spark its very difficult to play a fluid game and beat teams.

The way the side played today was too far the other way. We had no plan B.

Clearly there is a middle ground and im sure another manager would probably attempt to find it. But without the ability to spend any money, Sam is playing the numbers game. He knows that our biggest strength is the physical game and is putting all the emphasis on that. When it works we take the points and when it doesnt he gets a terrible amount of people giving him abuse for playing a crap game of football. Its a hard one to balance.

[47er]

Some people on here need a serious reality check. I'm not especially disappointed because quite frankly I never expected us to win this one. Stoke are like a more talented version of us - talent brought in with money we simply don't have. Whilst they can go out and spunk 8M on Kenwyn Jones and pay Gudjonsson whatever ridiculous wage he's on, we can't cough up the cash to afford a Bulgarian playing in an obscure league for 1.5M. That's the reality and the financial difference between the two clubs. Couple that with Stoke's excellent home form and anything other than a loss would have been a great result. Stoke aren't the same team that came up a couple of seasons back, they've spent big and spent reasonably well.

We were dire, for what it's worth, and I can see why people would be disappointed with the way we played football. The BBC interview with Allardyce was quite disheartening, he lambasted Samba and Nelsen for the goal, and when asked if he was worried by the lack of clear cut chances we create he said "no, that's not how we play" then gave his usual speech about how we haven't got 8M to spend on a Kenwyn Jones etc etc.

Fact is, we're going to struggle this year. Anybody believing we should be achieving a top-half finish needs to take off the blue-and-white specs and realise that it's simply not going to happen. It's depressing but unfortunately true. Almost every team in this league has more money than us, even Bolton and Wigan, and in time that's going to take its toll. Finishing 10th last season was a fantastic achievement, but it was achieved mainly because teams like Sunderland never got going and the three relegated clubs were shocking. This year the league is tougher - there will be less teams underachieving and the clubs that have come up are a lot stronger than those of last year.

All we can really do is hope Allardyce's tactics keep our heads above water until January and that the takeover happens before then.

Agree with every word of that except I thought we played some good football in the first half especially EHD and Pedersen. Your prognosis on the future without a takeover is depressingly accurate.

[47er]

We can not keep clean sheets, we can not create chances, and on the odd occasion we do, we cant score. All this equals relegation. Well don Sam.

That is ridiculous. We won last week so people with your views stayed quiet. We win, you brood. We lose, you come to life. Given that we are a very average team, this means that we will be "in crisis" every other week which is totally demoralising. And, in case you hadn't noticed Sam is the manager who SAVED us from relegation. Its not his fault he wasn't allowed to strengthen the team and build on the admirable 10th spot we achieved last season.

[beerwins]

Well as its been said before, Sam has'nt got a lot to work with, Stoke have a way better squad than us and they have more spending power and they are better at playing the football we try to play. Today it seemed Kalinic was rested as he would have got no change from the Stoke centre halves, the gameplan seemed to be keep the longballs low and let M. Diouf run onto them, if only the other players were told about this as Diouf tried to pluck balls from the sky.

We did'nt have a plan b and we have'nt had for some time once we went one down it was game over, with our tactics we were never going to get back in the game as Stoke were never really worried by our set pieces, I do however really rate Olsson, he still is very raw and a bit unorthadox but he does get forward and can change a game, players like him can change a defensive game into an attacking one if used right.

As for Sam, well his Tactics were'nt right today, in all fairness with the way we are playing at the moment im not sure any tactics in Sams book would have won us the game, there always seems to be a lynch mob for who cost us the game, to me its as Sam says, the defence was bad today, Samba was off the pace for there goal, Givet is a bloody liability atm (and still is never a left back) and Salgado I just dont rate as highly as some on here, his pace is shot and finds himself out of position more often than not.

Come January I expect us to have been took over and some money be available for transfers, I think that Sam will get the money to spend and I think he certainly has earned it but if he does'nt spend it wisely and change this god awful footballI dont think he will be our manager come the end of the season, he had some brass to spend last year and I think his dealings were average at best, Kalinic is a very good striker but in no means is the player that fits into the striking role needed for these tactics, the right back fiasco was just pathetic and not having a recognised left back at the club is just plain stupid.

More and more fans are jumping on the blame the manager bandwagon and with the football on display its hard not to blame them, Big Sam takes the creativity and fluidity out of teams until you are left with the percentage football that we play but when we come across a team that does the same but with a better squad its nice to have more strings to your bow than just moaning about how much we have had to spend in comparrison.

[Commondore]

We were always going to loose today, playing away against a team doing exactly the thing we do but with significant investment... The thing that bothers me most today is the painfully obvious lack of forwards: Kalinic is a good player but never a target man in a 4-5-1, same goes for Mame Diouf and Benjani is probably past it + lacking match fitness. For games lake these I'm pretty sure our only hope is to switch tactics and try to challenge on the ground, which is clearly something Allardyce would disapprove of.

BTW: Walters sure came back to haunt us... It's just no use, we could probably release a player after he'd been ran over by a bulldozer and he'd still make a remarkable comeback and score against us.

[Hughesy]

When noticing Dan on top form at 0-0 and 1-0 I havent checked back since as I know what to expect so Im not going to bother.

I expected a defeat, although hoped for a draw. Tough away day for everyone at Stoke, we have now lost their for the last 3 times - anyone expecting anything much difference with ZERO investment must think we are miracle workers.

1 poor defensive lapse and we lost - cruel world this prem footy. Next home game - 3 points please.

[Presty On Tour]

No suprise we lost to Stoke, they lumped it into our box more than us and got lucky.

Are there any supporters who enjoy our style of football and hoofball tactics?

Pass the ball to feet ffs, it is called football after all! The pitches these days at the top level are like carpets, no excuses!

Does anyone play football or fifa and think right i'm going with 1 up front and hit it into the mixer at every opportunity? I've even called my mixer at home which I use to blend my protein shakes "the Allardyce"

Get the ball under control, pass to a team mate, move into the space, keep possession, it's basic. Our players are the best of the best out of millions who would love to be in their position.

Surely when they were scouted as kids they wern't given trials with professional clubs because they could hoof it! I just cannot understand why Sam gives the players instructions to lump it at every opportunity, it's frustrating and makes you want to squirm.

Imo Sam has taken us as far as he can. He did a great job after the Ince nightmare but I really think it's the end of the road for him. It's no "knee jerk" reaction as his tactics, interviews, notlob I'm the expert persona have worn to thin for me. He has no plan B when it's going wrong either.

It really is time for a new chapter.

[Steve Moss]

Sunderland at home.

Liverpool away

Chelsea at home.

Will be lucky to get a point from those next three games.

I actually think we'll get 4-6 points from the next three.

We can expect nothing else from the team since the powers that be continue to shirk their responsibilities to invest.

The powers that be have no responsibility to "invest". The Trust has been very good to the Rovers in many ways in lieu of cash infusions, which have the same practical result.

John Williams needs to grow some balls and tell Sam his tactics aren't working, instead of sitting next to him looking gormless. Surely he has to question what is going on? No other team would want BFS as their manager, there is a reason.

I'm fairly sure that JW has "balls". He has never struck me as a wall flower. On the other hand, he does not control the Trust's bank account. Can't fault him for making do with the finances available, same as Sam.

And I think there are more than a few clubs who would not turn their noses up at Sam. He has an excellent record and I would expect that if a few managers are shown the door in the next month or two that a couple of clubs may come sniffing around.

I've always been a Sam supporter, only on the basis he gets results.

I'm assuming that is the justification for the rest of the pro-Sam camp.

But, if results continue to go badly this season and there is no takeover, what manager of quality would take us on? Average squad, near the bottom of the league, low confidence and zero transfer budget.

This is pessimistic. With all the negatives, Sam and JW will keep us mid-table.

Interesting views from folks who got home pretty early from the match considering it took us until 7.15pm to get home... The boys did their best today, can't fault any of them for effort in my opinion. It wasn't all hoofball, a lot of end to end stuff as well. Stoke were quicker on to the ball, they were good at pushing our players out of the way, they fell over a fair bit for big lads, a lax moment and they scored, it could easily have been Rovers who scored, the ball just didn't fall our way.

I only watched the game on TV, but I shared the same thoughts. It wasn't pretty but we were doing well enough to grind out a point, but then the mistake. And it happens so let's move on.

I count myself in the optimist camp every weekend but when we don't win I'm surprised at those who come out demanding Sam's head. We can't win every match, will lose some we should win and we'll win some we should lose, but all in all I expect that we surpass last seasons 50 points. Have faith. We'll get there, take over or no take over.

[jim mk2]

I thought it was a pretty even game for the most part. I felt we played pretty well at times, particularly in the first half, and looked comfortable at 0-0. We were undone when Samba allowed himself to get the wrong side of Walters. If he had stayed goalside of Walters the former Rover wouldn't have been able to race into the area. It was a moment's lapse. An individual error - that happens.

I don't think its any secret that once we go behind we are always going to struggle because of our lack of quality going forward. Matters weren't helped when El-Hadji had to be replaced after Webb had booked him early in the second half. I thought he sent in the superb crosses in the first half and was a constant threat down the left wing.

I go to every game, home and away, and I find the attitude to the manager by a section of our crowd difficult to understand. Everybody knows the style of football that Sam plays. I certainly don't think it's as bad as many would have us believe and I have certainly seen far worse over the past 50 years at Ewood. However, the manager has a set of beliefs and it was because of his past record that he was appointed the manager of the club. He has become hugely popular with the players and has delivered decent results and a mid-table position last season on a smaller budget than the overwhelming majority of mid-table clubs.

This summer he has been able to pick up a cast off from Manchester City on a free and a reserve from Old Trafford on loan. Every club in the division outspent us in the summer. The clubs who we see as our immediate rivals like Stoke, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland etc have all spent money to strengthen their squads.

I believe the manager was right to leave Kalinic out today as the game was not the type in which he would flourish. I thought Brett did a good job on the right but I would accept that we lack firepower - with or without Kalinic. However, when Sunderland can spend £8 million on Jones and we have the rely on loans and free transfers it shouldn't really be all that surprising that this is the area of the field where we struggle.

I agree with roversmum to a certain extent. There was very little between the teams and ultimately it came down to an individual positional error that presented Stoke with an opportunity they took.

One of the few sensible posts in relation to this match. All those berating the manager and the team should read and digest.

[Miker]

I wanted to comment on the fact that the only time Stoke seriously caused us problems was when instead of Samba marking Jones, Givet or Nelsen did instead. Jones would beat them in the air every time. The move for the goal they scored came about when Jones outjumped Nelsen and created space for Etherington. If Samba was there, it wouldn't have even reached Etherington to make the brilliant pass for Walters. Samba for his part, failed to cut out the pass, but the easier task would've been to stop Jones from heading the ball in the first place.

If Sam has to be berated about something then it has to be that because that's a bizarre tactical decision. Samba should've been instructed to mark Jones AT ALL TIMES.

I thought it was fairly even in general, second half they pressured us more though and we were very much devoid of ideas.

Stoke have a better team, they've been able to spend money on some quality players. But it's not an excuse for us playing so poorly, our worst display this season.

[steo]

i find it amazing that people on this mb are still defending our manager ,he hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics,he constantly criticises his own players,never admits he made a mistake it's always someone elses fault,sadly sam's days as rovers manager must end in my opinion if we are to survive,i had so much optimism going into the season but the football we are playing is atrocious at times.next three games i don't expect anymore than 3 points,hopefully at home to sunderland,

[Jim Royle]

i find it amazing that people on this mb are still defending our manager ,he hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics,he constantly criticises his own players,never admits he made a mistake it's always someone elses fault,sadly sam's days as rovers manager must end in my opinion if we are to survive,i had so much optimism going into the season but the football we are playing is atrocious at times.next three games i don't expect anymore than 3 points,hopefully at home to sunderland,

Sorry pal, but you lost any credibility by this statement alone!

Yes we ended 10th last season, but did you hibernate through the transfer window when every other club spent money, added new players, filled gaps in their personnel, signed players of better quality than they had previously. Now put that against what Rovers delivered and you still had optimism!!

Hope is a cruel mistress, better being a realist - the "pending" takeover basically sucked away any transfer funds that may have been available - this term is all about hanging on in there, pithe helmets on and hope that finances are better come Jan.

[Brfcrule1]

I have to say reading the comments I think it is an over-reaction calling for Sam's head. I do believe we do need to mix it up a bit I am not advocating we play total football as we will come unstuck in this division more often than not. One thing though which has to be levelled at Sam when we go one down we need to have a plan B and play it on the ground. Although Stoke do play some hoofball they also have the ability to mix it up a bit and play along the ground. Also one thing is is painfully obvious over the summer we had the pick of many strikers free agents etc. I can't believe Benjani was the best we could have gone for out of all of them we could easily have gone for either Gudjohnssen on loan or even Tuncay. Although he works hard the one thing he lacks from last year is the pace when he has played against us he was awesome although now with all the injuries he has seriously lost it. Also I do think when the takeover happens in time for Jan he should be one of the first out of the door because he is not even a target man it is hard to see how Benjani would fit into any system we play. Also I do believe the new owners have to drum it into Sam instead of hoofing it all the time which makes our football so predictable and one dimensional when it is clearly not working we need to mix it up and have a plan B. I also agree bringing Kalinic on would not have helped as he would have got no change out of Shawcross or Faye as they are far too muscular.

[Yorick]

Imo Sam has taken us as far as he can. He did a great job after the Ince nightmare but I really think it's the end of the road for him. It's no "knee jerk" reaction as his tactics, interviews, notlob I'm the expert persona have worn to thin for me. He has no plan B when it's going wrong either.

It really is time for a new chapter.

i find it amazing that people on this mb are still defending our manager ,he hasn't a clue when it comes to tactics,he constantly criticises his own players,never admits he made a mistake it's always someone elses fault,sadly sam's days as rovers manager must end in my opinion if we are to survive,i had so much optimism going into the season but the football we are playing is atrocious at times.next three games i don't expect anymore than 3 points,hopefully at home to sunderland,

Lazy postings. Alternative names please gentlemen.

[Dan]

When noticing Dan on top form at 0-0 and 1-0 I havent checked back since as I know what to expect so Im not going to bother.

I expected a defeat, although hoped for a draw. Tough away day for everyone at Stoke, we have now lost their for the last 3 times - anyone expecting anything much difference with ZERO investment must think we are miracle workers.

1 poor defensive lapse and we lost - cruel world this prem footy. Next home game - 3 points please.

Stoke should have beaten us by 3 or 4. It wasn't one lapse that cost us, we were poor and couldn't string 2 passes together. I'm not totally against long ball, but our 'hoof ball' doesn't work.

Watch the match and then come back and tell me if you disagree with what I said at 0-0 and 1-0. I was merely stating that Stoke were all over us and we couldn't create anything. The footage from the game will back me up, as will the match statistics