[Archived] Stoke Preview

[MarkBRFC71]

Lazy postings. Alternative names please gentlemen.

Tony Parkes until the takeover goes through, then Slaven Bilic please.

[RIML]

I wanted to comment on the fact that the only time Stoke seriously caused us problems was when instead of Samba marking Jones, Givet or Nelsen did instead. Jones would beat them in the air every time. The move for the goal they scored came about when Jones outjumped Nelsen and created space for Etherington. If Samba was there, it wouldn't have even reached Etherington to make the brilliant pass for Walters. Samba for his part, failed to cut out the pass, but the easier task would've been to stop Jones from heading the ball in the first place.

If Sam has to be berated about something then it has to be that because that's a bizarre tactical decision. Samba should've been instructed to mark Jones AT ALL TIMES.

One thing's for sure, we weren't defending deep The header was lost almost on the half way line. Where was the midfield?

Samba was in a great position in front of Walters, Nelsen tried filling the gap left by the non-existent midfield, Salgado and Givet were ball watching and Nzonzi just stood still. Jones won the header near the centre circle, that is the one place on the pitch where you can get away with Jones winning a header, his header wasn't goal bound, Nzonzi was too slow, Nelsen was out-jumped, Salgado left Etherington in acres of space and Samba let in Walters.

EDIT: Also Samba was playing Walters and Etherington onside, maybe his positioning wasn't great

[Hughesy]

we were poor and couldn't string 2 passes together.

Watch the match and then come back and tell me if you disagree with what I said at 0-0 and 1-0.

Did you attend the match??

[nicko]

First time I have seen Rovers in the flesh this season...

Stoke City are a very strong side these days, a variety of the physical and the skillful. A bit like Bolton at their best under Sam ironically.

They will finish in the top half.

Rovers are clearly short, weaker than last season. There is no point moaning about the tactics. Those bullying ways got you safe last season when you could have gone down.

Stoke just play that style better and have superior players to back up that tactic when it fails.

Sam has definitely got into the 'I know best' mode that angers some, but it is just the way it is. He has been given a shocking hand by the money men and has to do what he can.

However the Kalinic issue will be hurting him. You cannot spend that much and leave a player on the bench before sending on Benjanio [hopesless] and Hoilett [not developped]. I thought he was stuck there because the fans wanted him - but only the manager knows that answer.

You will still bully enough teams to win points, but this is a very competitive league this season. So it could be a long hard one on current evidence.

[92er]

Samba was in a great position in front of Walters, Nelsen tried filling the gap left by the non-existent midfield, Salgado and Givet were ball watching and Nzonzi just stood still. Jones won the header near the centre circle, that is the one place on the pitch where you can get away with Jones winning a header, his header wasn't goal bound, Nzonzi was too slow, Nelsen was out-jumped, Salgado left Etherington in acres of space and Samba let in Walters.

So Salgado was out of position again?

[RIML]

So Salgado was out of position again?

I don't need to answer that question, the picture does that for you.

[Amo]

When noticing Dan on top form at 0-0 and 1-0 I havent checked back since as I know what to expect so Im not going to bother.

I expected a defeat, although hoped for a draw. Tough away day for everyone at Stoke, we have now lost their for the last 3 times - anyone expecting anything much difference with ZERO investment must think we are miracle workers.

1 poor defensive lapse and we lost - cruel world this prem footy. Next home game - 3 points please.

Ah, so expecting more than a draw at Stoke these days is pie in the sky?

Listen to yourself...

[chaddyrovers]

I went to the game. Was disspointing with the way we played. thought we could hav pass the ball more to feet. Also thought he should have brought on Kalinic on before Benjani. Big Sam did change the formation when Olsson and Benjani came on to 3-5-2 but when we put crosses in we haven't got somebody to win the ball like K. Jones. We all know that Big Sam wanted him but yet again we couldn't afford him. I think a striking partnership of Kalinic and Jones would be very good and would score about 30 goals a season. Would like to see us playing 4-4-2 alot more but can understand why he doesn't play it. But we need a playmaker midfield like Tugay. Hope the takeover happens and we can give Big Sam some more money to buy better players. I think Big Sam is the right manager for us and with some transfer money can improve the squad with 4 to 6 players coming in. One player I would like to sign would be Landon Donovon.

[Dan]

Did you attend the match??

I watched the game. Did you?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I can't comment on the game because I didn't go, in fact I didn't even bother setting the DVD player to record MOTD, it's just too depressing. If you'd have told me I wouldn't have bothered to do that three or four years ago I'd have laughed in your face. I'm also running out of patience with this style of "football", I know we're short on players of the required standard but any team that plays four centre halves out of ten out field players will struggle to create chances from open play. Someone " Rovers Mum " said " The ball just didn't fall for us today ", that's the problem we're playing the sort of football were we rely on pure luck.The goalie won't drop the ball at Kalinic's feet every week. Add to that the fact that inspite of having six players who rarely cross the half way line we still give away at least one goal every game. Combine these facts and a long hard winter looms. I'm not sure that even with significant investment in January the current management will make the right choices.

[Darwen Rover]

I actually believe we have some decent players who could take advantage of the non long ball game.. Hoillett / Kalinic / olsenn / both dioufs... Just don't think we are maximising there potential.. When we played through teams on occasions utilising these guys we looked v good...

[Amo]

I actually believe we have some decent players who could take advantage of the non long ball game.. Hoillett / Kalinic / olsenn / both dioufs... Just don't think we are maximising there potential.. When we played through teams on occasions utilising these guys we looked v good...

Anyone who believes the team is incapable of playing football, and isn't just blindly following Big Sam's handbook, seriously needs a reality check. There are teams in this league with less talented players and smaller wage bills than us who can do it. All I'm asking for is the team to break up the percentage game. It's not so much to ask for from players on upwards of £20-50k p/week, playing at the top level. If you have the temerity to ask this, however, you'll be accused of wanting 'Total Football' and be reminded of the woes of West Brom & Burnley. There must be a mental block somewhere, because people say this over and over again and totally miss the point. There is a world of difference between playing a direct game interspersed with passing moves, and playing high-tempo one-touch football week in, week out. I don't know why some of our fans are unable to understand this.

[gumboots]

Anyone who believes the team is incapable of playing football, and isn't just blindly following Big Sam's handbook, seriously needs a reality check. There are teams in this league with less talented players and smaller wage bills than us who can do it. All I'm asking for is the team to break up the percentage game. It's not so much to ask for from players on upwards of £20-50k p/week, playing at the top level. If you have the temerity to ask this, however, you'll be accused of wanting 'Total Football' and be reminded of the woes of West Brom & Burnley. There must be a mental block somewhere, because people say this over and over again and totally miss the point. There is a world of difference between playing a direct game interspersed with passing moves, and playing high-tempo one-touch football week in, week out. I don't know why some of our fans are unable to understand this.

I agree. I don't want total football - in fact I don't like watching the tippy tappy stuff Arsenal play most of the time. What I want is a mix. there are times to hit the ball long and times to play it to feet. The problem seems to be that the manager is convinced only one way works or will work for us and gradually the players are beginning to forget how to do the other. We do better when we don't rely solely on big hoofs upfield, especially when we're playing a bigger stronger team who do it better and with better skilled players at it than we have. Stoke have beaten us every time we've played at the Britannia since their promotion. Surely it was time to do something different and try to get about them differently. I didn't go to the game so i can't comment on the actual play yesterday, but from what I saw on tv and from what I've read here we were never likely to score bar another disaster from their team and they didn't gift us a goal, so we were never likely to score. I don't see the manager changing his ideas and so, despite the fact that I don't know who could come in and do a better job (but then it's not up to me to name anyone anyway - I'm just a fan) I do have to wonder whether his time here is approaching its end and we should be looking around to see who could possibly replace him if we slip too far down the table. Not knee jerk - I'm not shouting Allardyce out immediately - but, as my dad always says, there's no harm in looking.

[des]

I agree. I don't want total football - in fact I don't like watching the tippy tappy stuff Arsenal play most of the time. What I want is a mix. there are times to hit the ball long and times to play it to feet. The problem seems to be that the manager is convinced only one way works or will work for us and gradually the players are beginning to forget how to do the other. We do better when we don't rely solely on big hoofs upfield, especially when we're playing a bigger stronger team who do it better and with better skilled players at it than we have. Stoke have beaten us every time we've played at the Britannia since their promotion. Surely it was time to do something different and try to get about them differently. I didn't go to the game so i can't comment on the actual play yesterday, but from what I saw on tv and from what I've read here we were never likely to score bar another disaster from their team and they didn't gift us a goal, so we were never likely to score. I don't see the manager changing his ideas and so, despite the fact that I don't know who could come in and do a better job (but then it's not up to me to name anyone anyway - I'm just a fan) I do have to wonder whether his time here is approaching its end and we should be looking around to see who could possibly replace him if we slip too far down the table. Not knee jerk - I'm not shouting Allardyce out immediately - but, as my dad always says, there's no harm in looking.

here here, football is about playing both the long and short pass, both keeping on the deck and playing the high ball. Godd teams can and do play both style in the same game, the key is knowing when to play the correct style, and not stating that in a game you can only play one way.

we have the players to play both types. Its dowm to Sam to let them play both styles.

[moerpho]

I seldom post and only watch Rovers on TV as I'm stuck in Norway, but there's one thing I find curious(sp?) that noone mentions: We don't get enough players into the box. Whenever Diouf wriggles free on the left and sends a cross into the box (quite frequently these days) there's usually 2, perhaps 3, Rovers-players surrounded by 5-6 players from defending team and no midfielders challenging the area outside the box. The lack of movement up top is worrying and there seems to be a mentality of not believing that we will win the challenge and get a cross in - thus no movement in the box. The way Rovers play these days is not unlike the way the norwegian national team played in the 90's and what made that work was midfielders bombing forward to get to "second balls" outside the box in addition to muscle and height up top. The lack of goals scored from midfield and the lack of movement/belief is what should really worry us. Don't think this is entirely down to Sams tactics. I feel that both Gamst and N'Zonzi/Grella/Jones should be bombing up towards the edge of the box when Diouf start to make a run down the left in belief that he will get past his man and whip a cross in. Do you guys who are lucky enough to see Rovers in the flesh every week feel the same way or is TV lying to me (again)?

Oh...and btw - english commentators yesterday actually offered some praise for both Stoke and Rovers. When the game started they said they expected a though battle but halfway through the first half they were praising both teams for mixing it up believe it or not.....

[RoyRover]

Someone " Rovers Mum " said " The ball just didn't fall for us today ", that's the problem we're playing the sort of football were we rely on pure luck.The goalie won't drop the ball at Kalinic's feet every week. Add to that the fact that inspite of having six players who rarely cross the half way line we still give away at least one goal every game. Combine these facts and a long hard winter looms. I'm not sure that even with significant investment in January the current management will make the right choices.

I didn't see the highlights of the game. I'm not too disappointed by the result. Stoke are a good side, who've spent quite a bit of money over the summer. We can't win every game we play. Our style of play is a problem and I'm in total agreement with you Tyrone. This is something that I've been saying for months; our tactics for scoring are based solely on getting the ball into the box and creating a scramble and hoping that one of players manages to scrap the ball into the net. I was explaining this to a Spurs supporting friend of mine on Friday night and he said how depressing that sounded. Big Sam looks to maximise the advantages we have in our team, like size and power. However, whenever play a team that is equally as strong and can defend set pieces properly we have no other game plan. We don't hold onto the ball and stay patient, but persist with lumping the ball up the field in the hope that something happens.

[riverside returns]

Personally, I would say that in the first half there were some really good passages of football from Rovers and they seemed to be getting some close opportunities but as usual, the ball didnt drop kindly, Stoke have some obdurate performers who get a toe in and ruin chances and some Rovers players seem scared to shoot.

I did note as the second half got underway that we were seeming slow and I feared what happened that we would get mugged. After that, we just stopped doing what we had done in the first half and the football was just punched into the box. Totally unedifying football.

On the players, Jones needs a rest and perhaps a return to the ressies to have a re charge.

Didnt see anything in Benjani to excite me. Salgado was excellent in the main and Robinson deserved better.

[92er]

I seldom post and only watch Rovers on TV as I'm stuck in Norway, but there's one thing I find curious(sp?) that noone mentions: We don't get enough players into the box. Whenever Diouf wriggles free on the left and sends a cross into the box (quite frequently these days) there's usually 2, perhaps 3, Rovers-players surrounded by 5-6 players from defending team and no midfielders challenging the area outside the box. The lack of movement up top is worrying and there seems to be a mentality of not believing that we will win the challenge and get a cross in - thus no movement in the box.

It's been noticeable about our lack of numbers in the penalty area for quite some time.

I'm not sure if it;s tactics, or whether we just don't have the right kind of players to make the runs and then do anything with the ball.

On a different note, yours was a good post.

[Iceman]

our players have been brain washed by Sam, and have been told you are only allowed 1 style of play. the players are not allowed to express themselves. some are quite capable of playing good football, but its Sam who is restricting them from doing that. sam knew about DUnn's injuries, yet failed to find a creative midfielder. ii like Sam as a manager, but his tactics are becoming really frustrating, and his team selections really pathetic.

[Inta Beaver]

I was at the game and was constantly getting annoyed with the delivery of free kicks, corners, and crosses, all we kept doing was clipping it in the box it was bread and butter for Stoke.

How dangerous was Pedersons crosses 2-3 seasons ago?he used to whip it in, I can only think Sam is instructing the players to dolly it into the box, the percentage game! It's boring, we are waiting for the opposition to make a mistake.

Yesterday was one boring match to watch, and not a good advert for premierleague football.

[Miker]

The thing is we do mix it up on occasion, arguably not enough, but generally we do play a short passing game especially once we have possession in the opponent's half.

Our usual strategy has been to lump it into their half, bring the ball down and then try and create something.

Against Stoke though, especially in the second half, that didn't happen.

We weren't able to bring the ball down because we couldn't win the aerial challenges, so Sam sent Samba up there but it didn't really change much.

Stoke do a similar thing which is how they scored their goal.

I simply disagree with people that say all we do is lump it into the box every game.

ii like Sam as a manager, but his tactics are becoming really frustrating, and his team selections really pathetic.

I'm sorry but in what way have his team selections been pathetic?? Surely that's not something that he can be fairly criticized on ...

[Iceman]

miker, as much as Jones is a good player, as a midfielder he is not good enough. yesterday, Olsson should have started, and Kalinic should have started. against better opposition,i can understand 1 striker, but against teams in and around us, we should really be going for an attacking lineup.

[LeChuck]

Olsson should have started

Olsson was awful when he came on.

Last season was a blip, he's a Championship winger at best. Might yet make a good attacking full back, but he's too limited as a wide player in this league.

[sambo]

Whilst he has (in places) done a very good job, we almost always know what to expect. His post match interviews are always the same - crediting himself or blaming the players, and his tactics are always the same. As a loyal supporter, I have seen many feeble performances on the road which has led me to question why I bother. It is clear he isn't that bothered about the fans; he made this obvious with those stupid comments a few weeks ago.

I have a dislike of the man, like many do. His attitude stinks and he shows contempt for everyone inside Ewood, talking down to us on occasions, saying we 'bought the league', he hardly ever says 'we'. He feels almost no affiliation to the club.

He can't see what we can at times... everyone knew long ball v Stoke was a disaster, it has been blatantly obvious in the past two seasons, yet we go through the same rubbish again.

Hughesy: are you Big Sam? Your comments seem strangely familiar to his interview! That one mistake may have cost us, but we were poor all game and offered very little.

I love this club, and hate to see the mistakes being made. Mix it up, like we did at the end of last season. It is hardly pie in the sky is it? Nobody expects us to pass like Arsenal, but I also don't expect us to hoof it aimlessly. Good players are being ruined. Kalinic is being wasted and has to rely on dodgy defending to score, feeding off scraps. He is undoubtedly a very good player, but we are wasting his potential, and probably draining his confidence.

Same goes for Jones - why put square pegs in a round hole? He can play midfield when ravaged by injuries, but he is a classic, old fashioned centre half, and arguably a future England player. Not in centre midfield he's not!

Rant over!

[G Somerset Rover]

Le Chuck I like your posts but that's absolute rubbish writing Olsson off as a left winger in the PL. Last season near the tail end he was our one major outlet and imo played very well. He may well end up going back to left back and making it there but it's very premature to write him off as you've done.