[Archived] Rovers Takeover

[patrickvalery]

It is two sides of the same story..........Anyway, after watching my mob blow their best chance of a Cup final in 39 years I am frankly fed up talking about anything to do with football.

Thanks for clarifying. The whole thing seems very strange to me. For Syed to throw 250k at due dilligence suggested he was keen as mustard. I guess the board must have found some serious dirt on him for his bid to have ground to a halt. Or maybe we just aren't as good a deal as we all thought.

For the first time since the whole saga began you seem at your most convinced its not going to happen. This is what i can't understand. You have obviously heard things to make you so sure. Yet others seem equally convinced it will happen. It makes me think not all the board members or trustees are singing from the same hymn sheet.

The trouble is we have all had our heads turned. When Shah rocked up on the scene it was excitement - Millions heading our way. Then Syed trumped him with Billions. The elation grew and grew. Sadly it looks like we're now having to go through the same process in reverse. Ending up under the stewardship of the trust. Not that they have done much wrong by us. Just the thought of every transfer window being linked with the Jonathon Greenings of this world hardly sets the pulse racing!

Patrick, a man of action or inaction, dependening.

Careful Smoss! You'll make my lynching list at this rate!

[nicko]

For the first time since the whole saga began you seem at your most convinced its not going to happen. This is what i can't understand. You have obviously heard things to make you so sure. Yet others seem equally convinced it will happen. It makes me think not all the board members or trustees are singing from the same hymn sheet.

I wouldn't say 'convinced' - more like 'believe' - that there won't be a takeover now.

There has to be a deadline imposed on this soon.

And a cohesive plan for the future.

[67splitscreen]

I wouldn't say 'convinced' - more like 'believe' - that there won't be a takeover now.

There has to be a deadline imposed on this soon.

And a cohesive plan for the future.

I really don't understand why you believe a deadline has to be implemented, if no agreements is reached by a given point the trust simply do as your plan B suggests, service the requirements of the transfer window and if need be the selling price is adjusted accordingly.

It's not like Sam is going to be given 10m to spend.

Further disruption will just have to be worked around, if Sam gets his dosh, he'll be happy and the show goes on.

[Grez]

Thought I would flick onto the rovers mb. Thought it interesting that it is suspended due to "ongoing technical issues"

Maybe all their members left in protest at people knowing something/ nothing.

Personally can't see Lee not capable of not making website work after all his groundbreaking work over the years.

[JWP]

There has to be a deadline imposed on this soon.

is this why 15th october is mentioned by some.

This thread would be dead without people posting whatever bumfluff they found out by speaking to sam who did john williams tarmacing last week. If people have tit bits, they should not be mocked for simply telling them.

agree and today has been a bit lively.

[chaddyrovers]

I just think we are just have to wait and see. Guess the next couple of weeks will be interesting. Don't know whether we will be took over. Wonder if they is anything in the LET paper tomoz? The Club have been quiet for about 2 months and haven't said anything. Mike B, Philipl and BPF ahve said there is alot of things going on at rovers in recent weeks about the takeover. Their posts have been very interest and good to read.

[brian_gallagher85]

Thought I would flick onto the rovers mb.

Personally can't see Lee not capable of not making website work after all his groundbreaking work over the years.

It's always bloody down...

[den]

The rest of your post is what is getting everyone not in the loop so fraught. We are fed scraps of information shrouded in mystery. Nobody is willing to divulge anything concrete (rightly i so i guess) and this just fuels the fire. Nobody knows whether we are in the process of being bought out, let alone by who.

All of that is fair comment.

I think the truth is that a few people on here are privy to some information. None of them knows the full story, but between them they muster enough to put together a reasonable state of affairs. The sources of this information makes it on the one hand valuable, and on the other hand impossible to divulge their sources. What these guys are doing, is putting together the best information available to anyone outside the actual negotiations, and also making the best assumption of what is actually happening. They are trying to provide people with the best, up to date state of affairs that they can.

Now, it could be that their sources are misleading these people, that the people on here are misreading this info, or it could be that the sources are divulging the best info that they possibly can, or maybe a bit of everything.

I do know that they aren't intentionally misleading anyone on here, or holding back on anything that they don't need to.

At the end of the day, they tell you how they see it, so take that or leave it. There's no other option really.

[nicko]

I really don't understand why you believe a deadline has to be implemented, if no agreements is reached by a given point the trust simply do as your plan B suggests, service the requirements of the transfer window and if need be the selling price is adjusted accordingly.

It's not like Sam is going to be given 10m to spend.

Further disruption will just have to be worked around, if Sam gets his dosh, he'll be happy and the show goes on.

I think there has to be a deadline and I think there will be.

You can't have a repeat of the summer when 'business as usual' meant keeping the debt down and waiting for a billionaire buyer.

The people who run the club are not mugs. They will have seen the current strength of the squad, know the manager's feelings about the need for investment and be ready to release the funds for a couple of key captures.

After all it is the owners who will suffer more than anyone if Rovers went down. The chances of a sale would dip and the value of their 'asset' slide badly - with a payroll still to manage in the Championship.

There was obviously a calculated plan for the last window. Try to pinch a freebie or a loan and save the cash for the benefit of the balance sheet.

You can only do that once.

You can't go into the next window with that kind of disruption.

I have got to say that throughout this period the manager has talked a lot of sense about what it actually meant...he said the Syed thing was unlikely in public before anyone else and revealed it had been disruptive.

[TimmyJimmy]

The people who run the club are not mugs. They will have seen the current strength of the squad, know the manager's feelings about the need for investment and be ready to release the funds for a couple of key captures.

Totally agree. I posted the same sentiments last week. Of course the Trust will invest if no sale is made. Window dressing is a part of business life and it's legit, risky in our case but legit.

On the subject of hounding. It's clear to me that there are some on here who have their own agendas and reasons for saying things. Asking a bigot to be more tolerant is a waste of breath. Why not just leave folk alone and let them post what the heck they believe to be true, isn't that the purpose of a message board? I can make my own mind up about how much credence I give it thank you. Being a fan and exchanging ideas and banter with other fans is supposed to be fun. So what if someone is consistently wrong or is a blowhard, I'd prefer to read crap rather than stare at a blank screen weeks on end.

No body truly has all the answers because no one has total control over events, every day is a voyage of discovery. You learn something that answers one question then discover something else that needs to be addressed moments later. Stuff just swings backwards and forwards all the time. Right now last weeks favourites are well and truly on the back-burner and it's looking more likely that the outsider will take the lead or even that the Trust may decide not to sell as Nicko and others have said. I'm confident in saying that right now, but tomorrow it could have become a nonsense because the game has moved on.

The decision to sell will be taken on someone's gut reaction to all the facts on the table, and by definition that is unknowable for us even if we do know all the facts. We'll be told of that decision once it's taken, in the interim chill and let anyone post what the heck they want.

There a handful of posters on here who have very good knowledge about the daily grind of this situation and I find their posts very interesting. You all know who they are. Let's try not to hound them off the board as well or life is going to get awfully dull very quickly.

[67splitscreen]

^ Frame that post.

[tony gale's mic]

Sorry but I think this rubbish about MikeB being "hounded" off the board is just that.

Point to me when anyone has said anything abusive to him here?

He's posted repeated things that have turned out to be codswallop and it is detrimental to this thread. He posts something about Bharti Mittal, we all go on for pages about the man and it turns out he's most probably nowhere near any takeover bids currently. Similarly stuff about the Riverside redevelopment, it being game set and match to Mr Ali etc etc..

Now he's perfectly entitled to post this, and shouldnt be subject to abuse this I agree. But nothing he's recieved so far has been anything like abuse. On the other thread I just posted saying I believed either his sources were telling him porkies or he was telling us porkies (a fair comment given everything he's told us has been wrong) without any form of personal abuse, the guy throws a few bits of genuine personal abuse in my direction and then announces he's leaving the board. Then I get accused of hounding him away!

I can't see anything wrong that anyone's said to him here in this thread, unless he's got some abusive PMs which would be uncalled for. If he wants to go after that then the fault is his own and not anyone else's.

What happened to Kamy (though I don't know the full details) was a disgrace as obviously he was getting some serious abuse/threats for it to be a police matter, and he gave us good info with it though to be honest that should be a secondary consideration. That's hounding someone off the board, MikeB throwing a hissy fit certainly is not.

[Steve Moss]

Careful Smoss! You'll make my lynching list at this rate!

At least I'd be on someone's list. The dinner invitations have dried up since that whole dancing on the table incident.

[Paul]

As usual Paul I still want to know what you wish for. Anyone can bang on forever about what's gone wrong with other takeovers (which we all know about anyway) but where does that get us? Are you still arguing we should "stick with the Trust"?

Besides that being totally impractical, it would leave us dead and buried anyway unless you intend to be one of the 9000 following us in a crumbling Ewood in the slow descent from the Championship to the old Div 3.

No takeover is without risk but the Trust have one last duty to perform and that is to sell the club to the owner they believe will look after us best. That's it really, its modern football like it or not. There is always a choice--no-one has to follow this club.

Perhaps we might turn out like QPR or Stoke. Who knows? One thing I am certain about is that we can't carry on as we are and, moreover, we won't. The Trust will see to that.

So what is it that you want Paul? No takeover? You know that's so unlikely as to be impossible. Or do you just want to be able to say "I told you so" if a takeover goes wrong?

I'm asking you again what is your solution? If you've ever put one forward I've missed it.

Sigh here we go again. I see there are another ten pages or so to the thread so I'd best answer this before I read those. The point of my post was to highlight, again and, yes, I've been saying it for around 6-7 years now, that money is having a terrible impact on our sport. As far as I can see, and I have re-read it several times, I did not say I was against the takeover, I believe it is an inevitable consequence of the financial mis-management which has been endemic in the PL since it's inception. The people running this game are collectively irresponsible and incompetent. At a time when the game is "enjoying" untold wealth the majority of our clubs are virtually insolvent. I really would like people to take a look at this and think about it, it's very necessary, because the sad fact is many fans don't look beyond "which striker can we buy?" or "how do we strengthen the midfield?" The game has changed immeasurably in the past 20 years and these changes are accelerating, if you believe English football clubs should be the plaything of rich Arabs and Russians or nothing more than overseas investment this is fine, I don't mind. I remember a time when football had soul. If you want everthing distorted by money, that's OK, I don't. Manchester City are spending more on wages than their turnover - this is unfair competition. It is frankly plain bloody stupid.

Before I continue let me try to make a few points absolutely clear:

it is not my role to find an alternative to a takeover. I'm a football fan not a club chairman. No one else on here as a viable alternative either. If I had one I wouldn't be getting up for work at 6.00 every day.

I am against the financial lunacy which is the PL

Given we compete in the PL I see the takeover as necessary, this does not mean I have to think it's a good thing

I believe it's really important to examine what is happening in the modern game and for fans to queston it. If we look again at Liverpool and Utd, the first has been destroyed by Hicks and Gillett in 3.5 years. The club is on the verge of administration and effectively being sold for £0, that's zero. One of the greatest club's the game has created destroyed by two foolish "businessmen" men. I await Friday with great interest it raises massive questions should the court case fail, I refered to all of this earlier:

Wiil the PL deduct 9 points from Liverpool? This is not Portsmouth, this is Liverpool. I wonder just how hard the PL worked to save Pompey and how hard they will work to save Liverpool - I think we might see a tangibly different approach on Friday. In one sense I'd like to see Liverpool in Administration to test this. It would give the PL an opportunity to prove their worth - one way or another. If Rovers are in this position in a few years who will rush to save us? No one.

Will RBS let them go under? Many other businesses probably yes. A football club, Tranmere, probably, Liverpool and all the adverse publicity, no, I very much doubt it.

And guess what the lunatics are getting ready to do it all again. Here's what Rick Parry said about Hicks / Gillett in 2007 "They are bringing to the table tremendous relevant experience, real resources and a committment to invest in the playing squad. We now have the right partners for the future" Hicks himself said, commenting on the Glazers, "There's no debt involved. We're not here to milk the franchise"

Last week Martin Broughton, Liverpool chairman said of NESV, " Look at what they've done at Boston, what they said in Boston, what they've done in terms of investing in players there - I think you get a high degree of confidence that they will do that here. These are the right people." I can't find the quote but the NEVS people are saying there will be debt but sensible levels of debt. In other word we haven't got any real money and are going to leaverage the club, again!

Manchester United LOST £80m last year. The Glazer purchase has COST United £583m in five years. They had to sell Ronaldo to be able to continue down this path. Ultimately, as far as I can see, Utd is a busted flush. The Glazers want £1.5bn for the club which has massive debts, if they go under what happens to the football club.

"Or would Wayne Rooney just have had to settle for cheaper whores" What a great thread title!!! I'm not a David Mitchell fan but this article is worth reading, he does a far better job of discussing the PL and money than I. He doesn't like football, I do (did?).

So let me be plain, again, I am disturbed by what our game has become. I do not believe it is significantly better than the game I started watching more than 40 years ago, when one considers the amount of money that has been spent. Within in the context of modern football the takeover is a necessary evil but I stll say:

Be careful what you wish for..........................it's possible in a few years we won't have a club.

The last thing I do is say "I told you so" as I've been discussing this for years in a variety of forms. Simply put, I have no other way to express it.

[Iceman]

absolutely spot on Paul. that comments by Rick Parry is just scary, when you consider that Hicks took ii thnk Corrinthians for the same ride, as what he is doing with Liverpool. the fact that Liverpool did a nothing job on his background, is what has landed them in big trouble. for all the impatient folk like myself, ii now understand why, the trust are taking their time in choosing the right buyer for Rovers.

[47er]

Sigh here we go again. I see there are another ten pages or so to the thread so I'd best answer this before I read those. The point of my post was to highlight, again and, yes, I've been saying it for around 6-7 years now, that money is having a terrible impact on our sport. As far as I can see, and I have re-read it several times, I did not say I was against the takeover, I believe it is an inevitable consequence of the financial mis-management which has been endemic in the PL since it's inception. The people running this game are collectively irresponsible and incompetent. At a time when the game is "enjoying" untold wealth the majority of our clubs are virtually insolvent. I really would like people to take a look at this and think about it, it's very necessary, because the sad fact is many fans don't look beyond "which striker can we buy?" or "how do we strengthen the midfield?" The game has changed immeasurably in the past 20 years and these changes are accelerating, if you believe English football clubs should be the plaything of rich Arabs and Russians or nothing more than overseas investment this is fine, I don't mind. I remember a time when football had soul. If you want everthing distorted by money, that's OK, I don't. Manchester City are spending more on wages than their turnover - this is unfair competition. It is frankly plain bloody stupid.

Before I continue let me try to make a few points absolutely clear:

it is not my role to find an alternative to a takeover. I'm a football fan not a club chairman. No one else on here as a viable alternative either. If I had one I wouldn't be getting up for work at 6.00 every day.

I am against the financial lunacy which is the PL

Given we compete in the PL I see the takeover as necessary, this does not mean I have to think it's a good thing

I believe it's really important to examine what is happening in the modern game and for fans to queston it. If we look again at Liverpool and Utd, the first has been destroyed by Hicks and Gillett in 3.5 years. The club is on the verge of administration and effectively being sold for £0, that's zero. One of the greatest club's the game has created destroyed by two foolish "businessmen" men. I await Friday with great interest it raises massive questions should the court case fail, I refered to all of this earlier:

Wiil the PL deduct 9 points from Liverpool? This is not Portsmouth, this is Liverpool. I wonder just how hard the PL worked to save Pompey and how hard they will work to save Liverpool - I think we might see a tangibly different approach on Friday. In one sense I'd like to see Liverpool in Administration to test this. It would give the PL an opportunity to prove their worth - one way or another. If Rovers are in this position in a few years who will rush to save us? No one.

Will RBS let them go under? Many other businesses probably yes. A football club, Tranmere, probably, Liverpool and all the adverse publicity, no, I very much doubt it.

And guess what the lunatics are getting ready to do it all again. Here's what Rick Parry said about Hicks / Gillett in 2007 "They are bringing to the table tremendous relevant experience, real resources and a committment to invest in the playing squad. We now have the right partners for the future" Hicks himself said, commenting on the Glazers, "There's no debt involved. We're not here to milk the franchise"

Last week Martin Broughton, Liverpool chairman said of NESV, " Look at what they've done at Boston, what they said in Boston, what they've done in terms of investing in players there - I think you get a high degree of confidence that they will do that here. These are the right people." I can't find the quote but the NEVS people are saying there will be debt but sensible levels of debt. In other word we haven't got any real money and are going to leaverage the club, again!

Manchester United LOST £80m last year. The Glazer purchase has COST United £583m in five years. They had to sell Ronaldo to be able to continue down this path. Ultimately, as far as I can see, Utd is a busted flush. The Glazers want £1.5bn for the club which has massive debts, if they go under what happens to the football club.

"Or would Wayne Rooney just have had to settle for cheaper whores" What a great thread title!!! I'm not a David Mitchell fan but this article is worth reading, he does a far better job of discussing the PL and money than I. He doesn't like football, I do (did?).

So let me be plain, again, I am disturbed by what our game has become. I do not believe it is significantly better than the game I started watching more than 40 years ago, when one considers the amount of money that has been spent. Within in the context of modern football the takeover is a necessary evil but I stll say:

Be careful what you wish for..........................it's possible in a few years we won't have a club.

The last thing I do is say "I told you so" as I've been discussing this for years in a variety of forms. Simply put, I have no other way to express it.

1) You continue to wring your hands about the state of the Premier League and the corrosive influence of money on what used to be the people's game. WE ALL AGREE.

2) You've used that dissatisfaction to pour cold water on a takeover from Day 1.If you didn't actually say you were against one, as far as I recall your posts about a takeover have been overwhelmingly negative.

3 )Yet nothing you can say or do will change the set-up of the Premier League and only with a takeover can we compete on a more equal level.

4) I can't blame you for not coming up with an alternative because there isn't one imo.

5)I asked you what you wished for and its an obviously impractical complete overhaul of the entire system. If we wait for that we most likely won't have a club, at least not one that much resembles what we have now.

[philipl]

There have been some superb contributions recently. Paul is absolutely right but Rovers are a cork on the wave, not the wave making machine.

I am really glad there is now a plan B for no sale which includes the Trust making a contribution in some form.

That gives JW and Sam a baseline to plan from which is essential in running any organisation, especially a £50m+ business like Rovers.

It has probably also helped clarify a lot of thinking about what is needed from an incoming new owner and re-energised the Trust's approach after a very intense twelve weeks or so.

The club is in the very fortunate position of having three suitors at an advanced stage. By the law of Premier League ownership averages, we have to guess that two will be Pompey/Liverpool/Man U/Leeds/Charlton calibre and one will be better. If Rothschilds have been doing their job well, those odds will be tilted more in Rovers' favour but succeeding where so many exiting shareholders have failed at so many clubs is a massive challenge for the Trust in the coming days.

Nobody should begrudge them if days turn into weeks.

[Ricky]

Can I just add that the comments I aimed at mikeb are nowhere near the unwarranted abuse kamy had. Feel free to look back through mikeb's posts and you'll see that all the 'facts' he has reeled off have been incorrect. This is the man who said he had seen syed's plans for a new riverside stand, that the syed bid was a done deal, and also given us two dates for the deal to be done by. One has passed and the other will pass this week.

He's loving the attention of people hanging on his every word.

[47er]

There have been some superb contributions recently. Paul is absolutely right but Rovers are a cork on the wave, not the wave making machine.

I am really glad there is now a plan B for no sale which includes the Trust making a contribution in some form.

That gives JW and Sam a baseline to plan from which is essential in running any organisation, especially a £50m+ business like Rovers.

It has probably also helped clarify a lot of thinking about what is needed from an incoming new owner and re-energised the Trust's approach after a very intense twelve weeks or so.

The club is in the very fortunate position of having three suitors at an advanced stage. By the law of Premier League ownership averages, we have to guess that two will be Pompey/Liverpool/Man U/Leeds/Charlton calibre and one will be better. If Rothschilds have been doing their job well, those odds will be tilted more in Rovers' favour but succeeding where so many exiting shareholders have failed at so many clubs is a massive challenge for the Trust in the coming days.

Nobody should begrudge them if days turn into weeks.

So much for the "exemplary owners" then. Made a big misjudgement in my view. Looks like they gambled on an early takeover and refused to even allow the manager money already ear-marked for transfers. It means we missed out on a creative player like Guti or Popov and all for nothing if a takeover doesn't eventuate. No wonder there were reports of an unhappy manager.

Plan B is only any good if there's real money in it and I won't be holding my breath there.

[philipl]

So much for the "exemplary owners" then. Made a big misjudgement in my view. Looks like they gambled on an early takeover and refused to even allow the manager money already ear-marked for transfers. It means we missed out on a creative player like Guti or Popov and all for nothing if a takeover doesn't eventuate. No wonder there were reports of an unhappy manager.

Plan B is only any good if there's real money in it and I won't be holding my breath there.

Nicko's writings on this particular subject should not to be treated as gospel. OK I probably get more window dressing from inside than he does but the transfer process was not consciously stopped last summer and Popov did not go for peanuts and get paid in Turkish Delight at the club he went to.

I am pretty certain we missed out on a player with that one (and others) but this summer was a "###### happens" window in addition to being careful with the cash.

To be honest, I am more concerned about the availability of good players willing to come to Rovers than I am of the money in the January window.

[Iceman]

1) You continue to wring your hands about the state of the Premier League and the corrosive influence of money on what used to be the people's game. WE ALL AGREE.

2) You've used that dissatisfaction to pour cold water on a takeover from Day 1.If you didn't actually say you were against one, as far as I recall your posts about a takeover have been overwhelmingly negative.

3 )Yet nothing you can say or do will change the set-up of the Premier League and only with a takeover can we compete on a more equal level.

4) I can't blame you for not coming up with an alternative because there isn't one imo.

5)I asked you what you wished for and its an obviously impractical complete overhaul of the entire system. If we wait for that we most likely won't have a club, at least not one that much resembles what we have now.

to be fair 47er, Paul in some aspects are correct. The game has changed so much, that its more about who has more money. Its no longer about the football, its now which club can maintain their PL status, not by avoiding relegation, but by avoiding unecessary debt. There doesn’t have to be a drastic overhaul, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, to avoid further chaos, and the mess that some clubs find themselves in. The game has drifted away from being about football, and has now become about growing and increasing peoples bank balances.

[Ferrit]

Personally can't see Lee not capable of not making website work after all his groundbreaking work over the years.

I know it's hard to judge, being over the web and all, but I take it that's sarcasm?

[philipl]

Rovers use a web site format/provider that is common to most League clubs. But it does seem to have technical problems when other club sites are not doing.

I have noticed the official MB has rather dwindled away of late.

[Kelbo]

I am pretty certain we missed out on a player with that one (and others) but this summer was a "###### happens" window in addition to being careful with the cash.

We also could have taken a gamble on Zigic who is struggling at Birmingham, Jelovic who doesnt look all that great at Rangers, in those instances we hit lucky, as for Guti and Popov, yes we missed out on a flair and quality!

[Bobby G]

Nicko's writings on this particular subject should not to be treated as gospel. OK I probably get more window dressing from inside than he does but the transfer process was not consciously stopped last summer and Popov did not go for peanuts and get paid in Turkish Delight at the club he went to.

I am pretty certain we missed out on a player with that one (and others) but this summer was a "###### happens" window in addition to being careful with the cash.

To be honest, I am more concerned about the availability of good players willing to come to Rovers than I am of the money in the January window.

To be fair he moved for 1.5 million Euros. And I doubt his salary would be anything more than 15k UK Pounds a week going up to a maximum of 20k and I would be very surprised if its the latter.