[Archived] Rovers Takeover

[Mattyblue]

Indeed, AS, think we have bigger things to be getting our knickers in a twist about at the moment!

[Mandrake]

People are so eager to panic

Even though Venky's buys the club with their own cash, it doesn't mean they will hand over 46 million in suitcases, nor does it mean that they transfer the money from their own shopping account. Of course a bank would do the transfer. If you had 46 million pounds, the funds would SURELY be placed in a high-interest/investment banking facility.

The bank is obviously proud to be involved in faciliating this deal with a premier league club, and the promotion is well appreciated. After all, this is a historic and super huge event in India. Even though the bank would provide the funds, the liability is surely towards VH groups belonings and not Blackburn Rovers.

In the light of recent Man Utd and Liverpool debt takeovers, do you really think John Williams would be a fool enough to let a debt takeover happen? The man is NOT a tool, and won't expect to recieve millions or move on after this deal, he would be WORKING still at the club. His interest are therefore in the best of the clubs and the fans. In addition, the Premier League would not accept ANOTHER a club debt takeover in the light of recent events.

So stop being so naive, please. Investment would also be in place. After all, do you think Blackburn Rovers, VH group and the others from the club benefit from a statement of: We will bring in 100 billion dollars in transfer funds! The price for a Keith Andrews would go from 2 to 20 million pounds in an instant.

The fact that John Williams is approving and supporting the deal is enough for me. The trust aren't about to throw x number of years of Rovers relations out of the window just like that.

We should be exited..by looking at that Indian tv report I atleast was. This is a HUGE deal in India, and numerous of big companies are presumably fighting to become a Blackburn Rovers sponsor...The day the takeover happens, the Blackburn Rovers fanbase would not only double, but many more times over..Merchandise sales is bound to increase..as well as finances in general.

So stop pretending a presumably loose rock by the Empire State Building is a sure sign that it is going to fall please..

Mandrake

[nicko]

Would it not just be an idea to leave the money stuff to the experts?

The REAL experts and not some of the hysterics around here who don't want this deal to succeed for their personal, petty reasons. The U-turning of one chap is getting to the 'dizzy' stage now. In fact it may need medication if he thinks The Sun have been able to catch up with or even overtake the Mirror and the People.

Thankfully there are sensible people - like 'iamarover' - who can actually see a big picture and put it in some perspective. What an excellent piece of work that was.

Makes me howl to see some of the spin in the papers today. There is an apparent effort to distance Kentaro from VH which is quite ridiculous considering they have been tied at the hip throughout this.

Who will be boss? Who will make the signings? January will provide those answers.

In the meantime I will be trying to break the names of targets while the number-crunchers and the amateur detectives go about their vital work.

[iamarover]

Also from John's link:

Venky's, which had a £1bn turnover and made a profit of £118m according to its 2009-10 annual report

http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=12704330

Turnover - 7.1b

EBITDA (profit)- 926m

exchange rate of (roughly) 70 to 1 gives a turnover of 100m and a profit of (roughly) 11.8m...

It can't be a coincidence that my numbers are exactly the same as theirs but for the extra 0...

EDIT: I promise it wasn't me who questioned the LT's numbers on their site, never posted there. Must have been spanster then....

Balwer did you get a satisfactory answer to this pretty fundamental question!? I have spent the last hour looking at this

http://www.valuenotes.com/ApekshaShah/Apeksha_Venkys_27Aug10.asp?ArtCd=154668&Cat=C&Id=36

At first I was looking at the business fundamentals like debt ratios and pbt v revenue. I ignored the Crore as the currency as even in India most business trades in US dollars. So I am not used to it as a currency.

But running this through....... A crore at 200k$ US the balance sheet looks small. Just twice the size of Rovers. Your 0 calculation is right I think!

I pray not.

There must be an explanation.... Er ?

[brian_gallagher85]

A massive well done to the genius in charge of the sites advertising of late for the capture of this lot

[LeftWinger]

Finally if we can be guaranteed 10th or 12th every season I'd take it like a shot.

Exciting times ahead indeed. Mid-table mediocrity for years to come.

[Bobby G]

Maybe they are being very careful with their words.

That would be the smart thing to do.

[Balwer]

Balwer did you get a satisfactory answer to this pretty fundamental question!? I have spent the last hour looking at this

http://www.valuenotes.com/ApekshaShah/Apeksha_Venkys_27Aug10.asp?ArtCd=154668&Cat=C&Id=36

At first I was looking at the business fundamentals like debt ratios and pbt v revenue. I ignored the Crore as the currency as even in India most business trades in US dollars. So I am not used to it as a currency.

But running this through....... A crore at 200k$ US the balance sheet looks small. Just twice the size of Rovers. Your 0 calculation is right I think!

I pray not.

There must be an explanation.... Er ?

I did not, so I will take some of the above advice and leave the financial analysis to the professionals at the LT and get back to my day job....of financial analysis

[1874]

Could the 5 million January transfer money refer to the 5 million the trust had comitted to spending.

The trust could have included this as part of the sale which is why that figure is in the public domain.

[den]

Could the 5 million January transfer money refer to the 5 million the trust had comitted to spending.

The trust could have included this as part of the sale which is why that figure is in the public domain.

Someone mentioned this earlier, but I don't think the trust had promised anything.

Today's LT articles.

[BuckyRover]

I would hate to be involved in an acquisition with Phil. Just imagine, you spend months working on something for the common good, then suddenly without warning he starts saying it's doomed and he wants no part in it.

Strange.

(Maybe he is being paid to discredit the VH bid)

[Mc Love]

Ali Syed and his people still think they can complete their purchase???

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Could the 5 million January transfer money refer to the 5 million the trust had comitted to spending.

The trust could have included this as part of the sale which is why that figure is in the public domain.

Personally not too hung up on the alleged additional transfer funds - as they say in their statement that they haven't decided yet on future investment.

At the end of the day - unless they are prepared to support a huge wage bill - in the same way City and Chelsea owners are currently doing - they need to increase our revenue stream to support increased wages (irrespective of transfer fees paid).

They seem to have a plan to grow Rovers - rather than continually pouring money into the pit that is the Premiership. This was always Jack's dream - and possibly one of the reasons why the Trust went with them. Make no mistake - they will want us to be successful - as it will reflect on their brand. However - why promise the earth initially - until you have put into place the strategies for growth ? All makes sense to me.

[modes98]

Would it not just be an idea to leave the money stuff to the experts?

The REAL experts and not some of the hysterics around here who don't want this deal to succeed for their personal, petty reasons.

Makes me howl to see some of the spin in the papers today. There is an apparent effort to distance Kentaro from VH which is quite ridiculous considering they have been tied at the hip throughout this.

Hmm, as fans I think it is our duty to ask questions about the financing of the deal. I remember people saying that Pompey fans had no right to complain as they didn't care where the money came from. I obviously trust the experts to make a sound decision but I would also like any questions to be cleared up without revealing to many in depth details. Overall I am not particularly fussed who buys the club as long as they have a sound business model and the financial backing to support the club.

I like the fact they have only said there is £5m for a budget, if they come out and say here's £100m (Mr Ali Syed) you then get fleeced by every other club.

I wouldn't see the need for Kentaro to distance themselves, there is nothing illegal in them being involved and it offers us a nice platform with which to get players in.

[den]

I found the LT articles rather more reassuring. The PL test should prove their ability to fund the club, while the bottom line for the fans is this: For this to work, they must keep Rovers in the PL. They know that will cost money.

[1874]

Personally not too hung up on the alleged additional transfer funds - as they say in their statement that they haven't decided yet on future investment.

At the end of the day - unless they are prepared to support a huge wage bill - in the same way City and Chelsea owners are currently doing - they need to increase our revenue stream to support increased wages (irrespective of transfer fees paid).

They seem to have a plan to grow Rovers - rather than continually pouring money into the pit that is the Premiership. This was always Jack's dream - and possibly one of the reasons why the Trust went with them. Make no mistake - they will want us to be successful - as it will reflect on their brand. However - why promise the earth initially - until you have put into place the strategies for growth ? All makes sense to me.

I agree they have stated already that they have started receiving sponsorship enquiries from big Indian companies (Money we would never have got)

I'm quite optomistic as I can see the benefits for both parties

[adopted scouser]

I can’t get excited about this takeover at all.

Jack Walker’s dreams and the subsequent glory days are long behind us now, and a club with great tradition and history in the North West now has to feed from the scraps left on the table. An under resourced club playing dull football, it’s little wonder Ewood’s always half empty with fans who could possibly be the quietest in the league.

You can change your religion, change your politics but you can never change your club. I can handle the misery most of the time, as I still get a buzz making my way to Nuttall street with my daughter, but I sometimes feel like Jack’s passion for his club and his roots in the town could now be regarded as a folly.

Mates of mine from the blue and red halves of Liverpool and Manchester take the mick on a regular basis. “Half your town are p***s, and hardly any of them go’t the game”

And now the last worthy local icon, founder of the football league, will be owned and run by Indian chicken farmers.

[47er]

What happens if Venky's takes us over and decides it was a mistake, can they flog us to any passing chancer, or will they have to jump through the same hoops that the Trust had to jump through?

If Venky's have such a great development plan (and aren't looking for Man City-style investment, but more like Crewe-style financing), then why haven't the Trust - the custodians of Jack Walker's vision - tried something similar? Are they not the custodians of Jack's wishes? Why haven't they tried all practicable means to run the club within a given budget before selling it off?

I don't like the club being in foreign hands, and I have an unspecific anxiety that this will all end in tears. If it all does go horribly wrong, then the Trust will be bricking it, because they're likely to see some aggro coming their way.

If they realise they've taken on a white elephant, what's to say they don't shoot it?

You don't like us being in foreign hands;

So how well are we travelling in British hands?

Which British conglomeration do you expect to rescue us?

And if it all goes wrong how will the Trust be bricking it? They'll have got rid------just as they wanted. Do you expect Rovers fans to fly to to Jersey and throw things at them?

Can't we have some rational decision as opposed to having"an unspecified anxiety"

[iamarover]

I did not, so I will take some of the above advice and leave the financial analysis to the professionals at the LT and get back to my day job....of financial analysis

Jesus wept. Well he would do if he had just read this as a Rover. Philip.? Nicko.......... Can you get an accountant mate to spend 5 minutes on this? Massive story.

I am sure Balwer and I have read this right. I have just spent three days looking at balance sheets although I don't do it as a day job. The fundamentals are right. Those change if it is Bernard Cribbins rather than Bernard Matthews that is buying us.

[Balwer]

Nicko I am curious as to your personal thoughts on this. I know you don't like to divulge that very often but it was abundantly clear you felt this site was initially too harsh on Saurin Shah and too nice to Ali Syed. Your initial skepticism regarding the Venkys group seems to have been replaced by cautious optimism, although maybe I am misreading.

I have one fundamental concern (taking financial stuff out of it), if we do adopt this model regarding player loans.

How can we guarantee that the manager will be allowed pick the team that gives us the best opportunity to win and not a team that gives exposure to Kentaro players to ensure the maximum return is received on the investment?

Surely at some point there will be a conflict. Even if there have been assurances made that Sam/whoever will be allowed to pick the team, I can't see how the two viewpoints won't overlap at some stage. Surely the primary motivation of any football club has to be success on the pitch first, with profit a close second, rather than the other way around? The two are linked, but not wholly reliant on each other....

[nicko]

Hmm, as fans I think it is our duty to ask questions about the financing of the deal. I remember people saying that Pompey fans had no right to complain as they didn't care where the money came from. I obviously trust the experts to make a sound decision but I would also like any questions to be cleared up without revealing to many in depth details. Overall I am not particularly fussed who buys the club as long as they have a sound business model and the financial backing to support the club.

I like the fact they have only said there is £5m for a budget, if they come out and say here's £100m (Mr Ali Syed) you then get fleeced by every other club.

I wouldn't see the need for Kentaro to distance themselves, there is nothing illegal in them being involved and it offers us a nice platform with which to get players in.

Questions are good. However there has been some deliberate panic started.

In layman's terms you have a big business family with quite a lot of cash stashed away between them. I did say there were about a dozen over last week.

In recent times they have looked to expand and get a bit more 'glam' than their frankly awful website page. So they try for an IPL cricket team...and then find out they can buy a club in the Prem.

Sounds like a plan. Doesn't cost the earth, gets them known globally and there is a way of having some sport and making money.

Kentaro ARE deep into this. Yet some media outlets have tried to put distance between them today. I can only presume this has been done by the current owners.

I don't know why, but I can guess. They don't like the idea of being a 'shop window' club. I don't imagine it will be that extreme, but wuestions will clearly be asked when players start arriving and most belong to the same group.

Again, so what? Some people just get precious and protective.

The bottom line is your club will have cash to spend when it has had none and a new way of getting players.

It's not a master stroke, but it can work.

Nicko I am curious as to your personal thoughts on this. I know you don't like to divulge that very often but it was abundantly clear you felt this site was initially too harsh on Saurin Shah and too nice to Ali Syed. Your initial skepticism regarding the Venkys group seems to have been replaced by cautious optimism, although maybe I am misreading.

I have one fundamental concern (taking financial stuff out of it), if we do adopt this model regarding player loans.

How can we guarantee that the manager will be allowed pick the team that gives us the best opportunity to win and not a team that gives exposure to Kentaro players to ensure the maximum return is received on the investment?

Surely at some point there will be a conflict. Even if there have been assurances made that Sam/whoever will be allowed to pick the team, I can't see how the two viewpoints won't overlap at some stage. Surely the primary motivation of any football club has to be success on the pitch first, with profit a close second, rather than the other way around? The two are linked, but not wholly reliant on each other....

I thought Shah was way too short in terms of finance and ideas and said as much way back. I seem to recall mentioning how poor the PR stuff was around him.

I thought Syed was way too brash and making claims and dropping figures that did not feel right. I know that there were grave suspicions in high places about him from the start.

VH have gone about it quietly and all of the info about them has been unearthed rather than handed out. Ironic too that I mentioned Kentaro and suddenly that is a stick to beat them with.

Nobody knows how that relationship will work, but it is like the takeover - in the end, it will come down to the players on the pitch. That is the beauty of football. The great reducer.

So if Kentaro want to find some good players and stick them at your club that will be good news.

If they dump any old rubbish on you that will be a disaster - but for the owners more than anyone.

Let's presume they want to make a success of this.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

it’s little wonder Ewood’s always half empty with fans who could possibly be the quietest in the league.

Mates of mine from the blue and red halves of Liverpool and Manchester take the mick on a regular basis. “Half your town are p***s, and hardly any of them go’t the game”

And now the last worthy local icon, founder of the football league, will be owned and run by Indian chicken farmers.

You need to go into the Darwen End - though the football isn't brilliant at the moment - I find the atmosphere the best it has been since the ground was redeveloped.

As for the second point - I would change your friends if they still refer to the Asian community in that way. Over the last few years there has been a marked increase in the Asian community attending matches.

[rog of the rovers]

I'm trying to picture the scene the paranoid people must be thinking of:

Venky representative - (rings Rothchilds, then ringing stops) Hello, I'd like to buy Blackburn Rovers.

Rothchilds - No problem, do you have the necessary funds?

Venky - Well not really but it will boost the clubs image in India if I buy it

Rothchilds - Good point, I'll put you through to the chairman.............

John Williams - Hello

Venky - Hello, I want to buy the club

John Williams - Do you have enough money?

Venky - How much do I need?

John Williams - Well you need £250k just to enter due diligence, then probably a bid of around £40m to buy the club outright

Venky - Well I run a business that is currently turning over about £200k per year so can I pay you in stages?

John Williams - Yeah no problem

Venky - We wont spend any money, if we take charge

John Williams - Yeah thats fine

Venky -In fact, we'll probably put the club into loads of debt

John Williams - Your just what we're looking for....when can you sign?

Venky - 10 days?

John Williams - done!

[47er]

Exciting times ahead indeed. Mid-table mediocrity for years to come.

And your alternative is.............?

[47er]

You need to go into the Darwen End - though the football isn't brilliant at the moment - I find the atmosphere the best it has been since the ground was redeveloped.

As for the second point - I would change your friends if they still refer to the Asian community in that way. Over the last few years there has been a marked increase in the Asian community attending matches.

Well said that man. An excellent reply to an unedifying post. In reality race is never far away on this board is it?