[Archived] Ins and outs

[G Somerset Rover]

Nicko who the heck will want to come and join the circus here? I know money talks but I wouldn't want to sign for Rovers right now if I had other options.

[unleaded]

Think even Big Sam would have struggled without the Likes of Samba,Jones and Roberts along with the usuall suspects who have been out injured.............. In fact Sam found that Roberts was the best of the bunch striker-wise who he bought back into the team through desperatration and not through choice.......Kean does not even have that......The 3 players are a big hit for anyone..........

Dunn is finished for me at this level....fitness wise

[mark1875]

quality goal line clearance by a chicken!

samba's replacement maybe?

[G Somerset Rover]

If we're relying on Jason Roberts who was absolute dog last season then we really are doomed.

[Majiball]

If we're relying on Jason Roberts who was absolute dog last season then we really are doomed.

Next year draw a big circle round the item in the catalogue with an arrow leading off. At the end of the arrow write 'buy me this 4 Xmas, Darling'. Remember to use an ink that stands out on the catalogue.

[Bobby G]

That could be a good ad for these guys.

[nicko]

Nicko who the heck will want to come and join the circus here? I know money talks but I wouldn't want to sign for Rovers right now if I had other options.

It's a very good question.

But it's always a very good question when it comes to Rovers - and the answer used to be simple...money.

It will be the same this time round.

The difference HAS to be that Venky's MUST come up with it. The Trustees didn't and left you in the cart.

Do I really have to point out the poverty of signings in the past two windows?

I don't think Venky's realised how potentially big the problem is...they certainly did quite quickly...and changed the manager.

Sam worked with his hands tied behind his back. But he also spent a large sum on Kalinic which is becoming his Grabbi moment. Only difference for Souey was that he bought enough good ones - and there was money about in his time.

[tony gale's mic]

I am not pro-Venky's. However you cannot judge these people until they have had a chance to spend their money. That is why they had to come in.

It is all about the January transfer window - that's why Sam was bumped. They don't trust him with their cash.

I think the same applies to Kean. Give him his chance.

Sam's record last season against West Ham and Stoke in the home games was two dull draws. So Kean is a point off the pace.

I saw West Brom yesterday. There is every chance they will tonk you tomorrow.

So it will get worse.

However the problems that need addressing are in signing players for the squad. You got away with it in the first few months because everyone was fit. The minute Kean takes over he loses three key men in 90 minutes.

This is when the new owners, the manager and Kentaro have to prove they can work it out. If they do not land the players needed it will have been a disaster.

However it the previous owners were still in charge it would have been a guaranteed disaster too - because they had pulled the plug.

I don't think hysterical ranting helps. There is a bottom line here that needs to be sorted out...quickly.

Sorry nicko but quite a few of us would disagree with this.

What possible basis did the new owners have to not trust Sam with their cash?

They freely admit they hadn't watched a game of football before they game, they have no idea about the game.

You yourself said Kentaro advised otherwise so they have taken a footballing decision contrary to all advice they were given, despite admitting they knew nothing about football.

This is indefensible.

Yes some cash in the transfer window is crucial, but even more crucial is a manager who can spend the money wisely (Sam may have had a few flops but also has had many transfer successes throughout his career) and a manager who can arrange this team to get results. We had a manager who could do that, whereas the last time we went down we had plenty of money to spend but a manager who was inexperienced.

Sam's record in those individual matches may have been draws. However his home record against bottom half teams was brilliant at Ewood and he won the vast majority of them and lost none of them.

Had we faced Man Utd and Chelsea at home just now and lost both of them, we wouldnt have been criticising Steve Kean so much even though we'd have been two points down from last season, as these were the sort of matches we'd be okay with losing. But under Sam we expected to beat the bottom half teams at home with the occasional draw here and there.

It still might be a disaster if we sign the targets - unless Steve Kean adapts fast to the steep learning curve that is the Premier League then we're still going to struggle, none of the players are hardly going to be world beaters, just handy players which might improve the side.

And I was never a big fan of the Trust, but under them we weren't getting relegated this season. We would have got minimum four points out of those games under Sam and Man Utd aside we'd been playing pretty well in the preceding few games. Even at Bolton we played decent football but lost due to poor defending.

What would have happened the following season? Who knows. We would've got money from the eventual sale of Phil Jones which couldve been reinvested back in the side, there's some good young players that are coming through...even if we went down though at least it wouldve been as a result of natural causes rather than the footballing kamikaze mission which appears to be the case here.

[Majiball]

Money doesn't solve everything.

[AggyBlue]

I don't think Venky's realised how potentially big the problem is...they certainly did quite quickly...and changed the manager.

On whose advice. It wasn't the manager that needed changing but the dross in the dressing room.

[Baz]

Nicko given our position with a manager appointed only to the end of the season, surely this would put off most current Premier League players. Does this mean we would be looking at loans from other Premier League teams and / or foreign siginings on loan or permanent deals.

I agree also with Unleaded, given our current injuries Kean has got very little options, but also Dunn looks finished as a starter to me, possibly as an impact sub but he cant run any more.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I am not pro-Venky's. However you cannot judge these people until they have had a chance to spend their money. That is why they had to come in.

It is all about the January transfer window - that's why Sam was bumped. They don't trust him with their cash.

Yes Nicko,lets wait and see if their 5 million is enough to guarantee us Champions league football eh!.

Make no mistake my friend,watching this lot lead our club is like watching a car crash in slow motion...and you and your media friends damn well know it.

Sam was not trusted to spend their money so they replaced him with an relatively unknown rookie manager.....EH? where's the sense in that?

Sam was shockingly stabbed in the back,he deserved much better than that.

[nicko]

Nicko given our position with a manager appointed only to the end of the season, surely this would put off most current Premier League players. Does this mean we would be looking at loans from other Premier League teams and / or foreign siginings on loan or permanent deals.

I agree also with Unleaded, given our current injuries Kean has got very little options, but also Dunn looks finished as a starter to me, possibly as an impact sub but he cant run any more.

You can only loan ONE more player from the Premier League. So you would have to use that option very carefully.

Make no mistake, there is a big job on here.

But at least you have money to spend for a change...

The pressure is bang on all concerned. However you can come out of the other side in better shape.

I got slaughtered for suggesting you had left yourselves well short in the last window. 'Too good to go down' and all that kind of stuff.

And, by the way, would Sam really have got better results against West Ham and Stoke with the players missing that Steve Kean had?

This is one king-sized reality check for all involved.

[philipl]

Yes, Sam would have got better results than Steve Kean would have- he wouldn't have been out smarted by Tony Pulis the way Kean was. And we wouldn't have let two rooky keepers smoke cigars all game either.

We were in a much better position the day before Sam was fired than we are now.

[deftangel]

Stoke are not a bottom half team.

West Ham had been improving and went to Craven Cottage and beat Fulham yesterday. I don't think an Allardyce team would have lost yesterday but with the squad and injuries we've got, four/six points was nothing like guaranteed. There are enough reasons to be sceptical about whether Kean will be able to do the job without needing to over-egg what Sam would have done.

One point off the pace is about right. The performances should be giving more cause for concern. We are missing Jason Roberts. Repeat that to yourselves and then ask how we managed to get into a scenario where we are missing Jason Roberts. It's got just as much to do with the previous regime as it has with Kean.

Had we appointed an established manager we would not be throwing ourselves off the cliff after 2 games. If we lose at West Brom, I genuinely don't think he'll be here after the Liverpool game anyway. If anything, they sacked Sam too early because by the time Kean gets to spend some money he's going to be on severely thin ice. That is not a good environment for bringing in the fresh faces that are desperately needed and having them hit the ground running.

Venky's might well plough in a lot of money in January but that's going to be into a side on a horrible run lacking confidence with a manager still searching for his first win and likely very unsure about his position. We can definitely judge them on the timing of their managerial changes which are clearly disastrous whether you agreed with shifting the big man or not.

[Iceman]

Nicko,you failed to mention Sam giving the likes of Jones, Hoilett, Olsson, Hanley and Morris a chance. Granted he wasted money on Kalinic, but there is no denying what a top job he did with the younger players.

[nicko]

Yes Nicko,lets wait and see if their 5 million is enough to guarantee us Champions league football eh!.

Make no mistake my friend,watching this lot lead our club is like watching a car crash in slow motion...and you and your media friends damn well know it.

Sam was not trusted to spend their money so they replaced him with an relatively unknown rookie manager.....EH? where's the sense in that?

Sam was shockingly stabbed in the back,he deserved much better than that.

The size of the budget and the height of their ambitions was one of many naive comments. But I don't think beating yourselves up over it helps.

I believe there is more money that that instantly available. Everyone said as much last week after the meeting in India. There is further evidence in that they did not want Sam to have it.

However the test is what is produced in the next month or so.

If they spend - properly and in decent amounts - you will have no reason to complain. If they don't then it's a major mistake.

Nicko,you failed to mention Sam giving the likes of Jones, Hoilett, Olsson, Hanley and Morris a chance. Granted he wasted money on Kalinic, but there is no denying what a top job he did with the younger players.

Sam HAD to give the kids a chance. He had no option with the budget he was dealing with.

[tony gale's mic]

Also I would say someone only "deserves" a chance if they'd done enough to deserve that chance. TBF both Kidd and Harford had assistant managed and played key roles in Premiership successes. They deserved a chance to have a crack at the big time, even if they both failed miserably.

All this stuff about Steve Kean being a highly rated coach is something that doesn't really wash with me. His name was barely talked about before he became our manager, he spent his career before Rovers following Chris Coleman around a few second rate clubs.

Steve Kean has it all to prove and does not deserve this chance he's been given. That's not to say we shouldnt get behind him, but his a poor manager until he proves otherwise.

[philipl]

Apart from the total shambles behind the scenes at Ewood the Venky's have caused.... Nicko?

[roversam]

11 wins and 4 draws for sam against bottom half teams suggests he probably would have taken more than 1 point from westham, stoke.

You keep saying that venkeys have money. A 5million figure has been branded about. 5 million is peanuts. Venkeys long term project is to make money through acquisitions and sales. Isnt this exactly what the trust were doing?

January is a difficult time to sign players. Its even harder when you have crackpot owners and a clueless manager.

[nicko]

Yes, Sam would have got better results than Steve Kean would have- he wouldn't have been out smarted by Tony Pulis the way Kean was. And we wouldn't have let two rooky keepers smoke cigars all game either.

We were in a much better position the day before Sam was fired than we are now.

Sam would also have been able to mend Phil Jones's knee injury and fix Jason Roberts's hamstring with the laying on of hands.

Plus he could have changed the calendar to make sure that January 1st was last week.

[John]

If good Premier League players are available, and other clubs are also in for them, why would they come here?

Can't wait for us to severely rack up the debt in January!

[T4E]

Sam's track record in home games against the smaller sides suggest that he would have been more than capable of bettering 1 point out of 6.

The real question is, if they don't trust Sam with their money, why do they trust Kean? That doesn't make any sense at all. He has no experience spending money. It seems pretty obvious to me - they want someone in charge that won't question the influx of Kentaro players that we're going to get.

It now all rests on two things - Kean's ability as a coach, and the standard of the players we get in. Win 3 of the next 6 and we're on 31 points with 13 games to go. That would be a strong position for staying up - coupled with a good transfer window and the morale will be totally different by the end of January.

[nicko]

11 wins and 4 draws for sam against bottom half teams suggests he probably would have taken more than 1 point from westham, stoke.

You keep saying that venkeys have money. A 5million figure has been branded about. 5 million is peanuts. Venkeys long term project is to make money through acquisitions and sales. Isnt this exactly what the trust were doing?

January is a difficult time to sign players. Its even harder when you have crackpot owners and a clueless manager.

Suggests? Factor in injuries to that stat, eh.

Venky's have said they have money. The manager who met them confirmed the same and went on record about it last week.

January is a difficult time to sign players. But it's impossible if you have no dough - as you have seen for the past two windows.

[John]

January is a difficult time to sign players. But it's impossible if you have no dough - as you have seen for the past two windows.

Even clubs with considerably more money than us have struggled to buy anyone decent in January.