[Archived] Ins and outs

[yeti-dog]

So has Puppet on a string got somebody lined up to come in next week ?

Give it a rest it's getting boring. The 'puppet' is managing our club at present and we need to be supporting him not seeking any excuse to undermine him..

[RevidgeBlue]

So do we have any concrete interest in anyone yet?

A striker "talking to another club" hardly sounds the most promisinmg start!

(Not trying to shoot the messenger btw)

[nicko]

So do we have any concrete interest in anyone yet?

A striker "talking to another club" hardly sounds the most promisinmg start!

(Not trying to shoot the messenger btw)

The striker was watched over the past few weeks. He has had about four different price tags and the same number of agents. He is useful if the price is right.

However it is chaotic just now...once a fee is established and 'ownership' of the player then it might get more real.

This is the transfer market...but at least you can get involved now rather than waiting for half-fit players to come on trial and crumbs from Sir Alex's table.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

I agree,and that's the issue for me.

Unfortunately,I agree that the players we currently have are, for various reasons,uncomfortable playing to feet.Too many seasons of hoof-ball,poor technique,treating the ball like a hot potato,no composure..I could go on.

The lack of movement was incredible yesterday. Players had the ball and nobody was moving or making a run. Embarrasing.

[tony gale's mic]

I agree,and that's the issue for me.

There have been signs in the last two games that Kean is trying to get the players to play to feet more.Also,we now mix up throw-ins much more which always p****d me off under Allardyce..those constant long throws which slowed play down whilst defenders jogged upfield and usually led to nothing other than destroying any momentum we'd built up.

Unfortunately,I agree that the players we currently have are, for various reasons,uncomfortable playing to feet.Too many seasons of hoof-ball,poor technique,treating the ball like a hot potato,no composure..I could go on. Basically,until we get better quality players Kean is on a hiding to nothing. Ironically,this is why I'm prepared to wait and see what the transfer window brings unlike some of the drama queens on here.

Yes, the last two debacles are Allardyce's fault.

[JAL]

Give it a rest it's getting boring. The 'puppet' is managing our club at present and we need to be supporting him not seeking any excuse to undermine him..

Until he proves himself what can one do, he has no experience or background to judge against, except one point with two very unacceptably poor performances from two crucial home games.

Steve Kean has to earn it, support that is and earn it fast, otherwise we are all dead. The ball rests in Kean's court so its over to him in this challenging coming month.

[hi-jaq]

could it be a striker from Italy, I wonder???

they have funny co-ownership rules don't they???

it's not that Okaka is it???

[yeti-dog]

Yes, the last two debacles are Allardyce's fault.

Clearly not,but he's spent 2 seasons polishing the turd that is hoofball.

Until he proves himself what can one do, he has no experience or background to judge against, except one point with two very unacceptably poor performances from two crucial home games.

Steve Kean has to earn it, support that is and earn it fast, otherwise we are all dead. The ball rests in Kean's court so its over to him in this challenging coming month.

True up to a point Jal,but the ball also sits in your court and others like you. Are you magnanimous enough to support the team in the hope of getting a return back from Kean or is it more comfortable sniping at Kean/Venky's/Kentaro etc in the hope of being able to say 'told you so'?

[Amo]

I agree,and that's the issue for me.

There have been signs in the last two games that Kean is trying to get the players to play to feet more.Also,we now mix up throw-ins much more which always p****d me off under Allardyce..those constant long throws which slowed play down whilst defenders jogged upfield and usually led to nothing other than destroying any momentum we'd built up.

Unfortunately,I agree that the players we currently have are, for various reasons,uncomfortable playing to feet.Too many seasons of hoof-ball,poor technique,treating the ball like a hot potato,no composure..I could go on. Basically,until we get better quality players Kean is on a hiding to nothing. Ironically,this is why I'm prepared to wait and see what the transfer window brings unlike some of the drama queens on here.

Pretty much.

Are Wigan, West Brom and Blackpool leagues ahead of us in personnel? No, they're not, and yet they can mix it about and play some decent stuff on the deck. It takes time to develop a new playing style and can't be done with a click of the fingers, especially during a busy period of fixtures.

Of course, if Venky's had any sense, they would have waited until the Summer for a new manager to make an impact, instead of derailing our season, but c'est la vie. Kean's in charge now and he deserves our backing.

[tony gale's mic]

Clearly not,but he's spent 2 seasons polishing the turd that is hoofball.

True up to a point Jal,but the ball also sits in your court and others like you. Are you magnanimous enough to support the team in the hope of getting a return back from Kean or is it more comfortable sniping at Kean/Venky's/Kentaro etc in the hope of being able to say 'told you so'?

Funny that, I was thinking our previous two home performances against Villa and Wolves were actually pretty decent, although we took the foot off the gas.

More importantly, we won both.

And it's possible to support the team and and still be highly critical of the owners and be sceptical about our managers' credentials. They're hardly mutually exclusive.

[Billy Castell]

Sounds like this striker is another example of why having 4 agents is a mad idea. All sounds confusing, potentially expensive and lonng winded. Hope there are other easier options if this drags on.

[yeti-dog]

Funny that, I was thinking our previous two home performances against Villa and Wolves were actually pretty decent, although we took the foot off the gas.

More importantly, we won both.

And it's possible to support the team and and still be highly critical of the owners and be sceptical about our managers' credentials. They're hardly mutually exclusive.

Fill your boots tgm,like I said earlier I'm prepared to wait and see what the transfer window brings. Two or three decent signings and I'm confident we'll be okay this season.

[RovertheHill]

Pretty much.

Are Wigan, West Brom and Blackpool leagues ahead of us in personnel? No, they're not, and yet they can mix it about and play some decent stuff on the deck. It takes time to develop a new playing style and can't be done with a click of the fingers, especially during a busy period of fixtures.

Of course, if Venky's had any sense, they would have waited until the Summer for a new manager to make an impact, instead of derailing our season, but c'est la vie. Kean's in charge now and he deserves our backing.

Good post - I remember when Allardyce first joined and he was trying to convert us to a "more direct" style (some call it hoofball on here) and all the pro-Allardyce people were bemoaning the fact that the anti-Allardyce people weren't giving the team time to adopt to the style of play. Same rules apply now but plenty have forgotten that.

Time to get behind the team and support it. And the team includes the manager.

[greco]

Good post - I remember when Allardyce first joined and he was trying to convert us to a "more direct" style (some call it hoofball on here) and all the pro-Allardyce people were bemoaning the fact that the anti-Allardyce people weren't giving the team time to adopt to the style of play. Same rules apply now but plenty have forgotten that.

Time to get behind the team and support it. And the team includes the manager.

major difference is, that sam took over, after the most incompetent manager ever, who had left the squad in a mess, so he needed time.

kean took over a squad, which performed fine and was safely midtable, so even with change in style, the results and the performance should be better.

[Tooogs]

A few players i would like to see bought in January are box-to-box midfielder Yohan Cabaye, possibly his team mate Rio Mavuba, and the young Rennes defensive midfielder Yann M'Vila.

It's okay saying we already have N'Zonzi, Goulon and Linganzi but N'Zonzi is injured and the other two are gash.

[John]

Thing was with Sam is that he has a proven track record of getting results.

We don't know what we are going to get with Kean - plus with the advisers/owners calling the shots on playing style and also potentially transfer targets it is a very uncertain/worrying time.

[Kelbo]

Pretty much.

Are Wigan, West Brom and Blackpool leagues ahead of us in personnel? No, they're not, and yet they can mix it about and play some decent stuff on the deck. It takes time to develop a new playing style and can't be done with a click of the fingers, especially during a busy period of fixtures.

Of course, if Venky's had any sense, they would have waited until the Summer for a new manager to make an impact, instead of derailing our season, but c'est la vie. Kean's in charge now and he deserves our backing.

For something to be deserved,it must be earned and for me he has earned nothing yet!!

[philipl]

In the 17 games this season he picked up 21 points.

In the same 17 fixtures last season - against the same sides [with two 'swaps' for teams who went up and down] - the total was 26 points.

So the 'point' is that this team and squad was five points worse off when he left compared to where they were a season ago.

Not Sam's fault...just a reflection of how the squad is weaker and, probably, that the opposition is a bit better.

This is the League table at Christmas last season nicko:

1 Chelsea 18 13 2 3 9 0 43 15 +28 41 2.28

2 Arsenal 17 11 2 4 5 2 44 20 +24 35 2.06

3 Manchester U 18 12 1 5 7 5 37 17 +20 37 2.06

4 Aston Villa 18 10 5 3 7 1 29 14 +15 35 1.94

5 Tottenham 18 10 3 5 4 4 40 22 +18 33 1.83

6 Manchester City 17 7 8 2 4 2 33 27 +6 29 1.71

7 Birmingham City 18 8 4 6 7 4 19 18 +1 28 1.56

8 Fulham 17 7 5 5 5 4 23 17 +6 26 1.53

9 Liverpool 18 8 3 7 5 4 34 25 +9 27 1.50

10 Stoke City 17 5 6 6 6 6 15 20 -5 21 1.24

11 Sunderland 18 6 3 9 3 5 25 28 -3 21 1.17

12 Everton 17 4 6 7 2 3 23 31 -8 18 1.06

13 Wigan Athletic 17 5 3 9 3 4 20 38 -18 18 1.06

14 Wolverhamptons 18 5 4 9 3 6 17 31 -14 19 1.06

15 Blackburn 18 5 4 9 5 10 17 32 -15 19 1.06

16 Burnley 18 5 4 9 3 6 21 37 -16 19 1.06

17 Bolton 16 4 4 8 0 4 23 33 -10 16 1.00

18 Hull City 18 4 5 9 3 7 17 37 -20 17 0.94

19 West Ham United 18 3 6 9 2 4 26 35 -9 15 0.83

20 Portsmouth 18 4 2 12 5 7 17 26 -9 14 0.78

Rovers 19 points from 18 games.

Any more mumbo jumbo?

[John]

Sure Sam was saying earlier this season we traditionally get stronger in the second half of the season.

Anyway we are going off topic in this thread.

[imy9]

Phillip- he did say like for like fixtures.

[nicko]

Phillip- he did say like for like fixtures.

Steady now. It took him a couple of hours to come back with a league table...

Of the 17 games, by the way, only two results were better, ten [astonishingly] the same outcome and five worse.

Weaker squad, stronger league.

Needs investment.

[Bobby G]

No one denies investment is NEEDED.

[OscarRaven]

No one denies investment is NEEDED.

Agreed, in fact January is more likely to define Venky's tenure and be somewhat more influential in the long term than December.

If they thought the sacking of Sam resulted in a backlash, not investing/the wrong type of investment in January will be a magnitude up in the 'standings'.

[Yorick]

Of course, if Venky's had any sense, they would have waited until the Summer for a new manager to make an impact, instead of derailing our season, but c'est la vie. Kean's in charge now and he deserves our backing.

Kean deserves sweet FA yet. If he wants our backing and support he must bloody well earn it. If it ever comes out that he was involved in any skullduggery with the new owners and Kentaro then he's history as far as I am concerned and I'm sure that there are thousands who share my opinion.

btw As far as I am concerned that goes for Alan Nixon too.

[andymo]

No one denies investment is NEEDED.

everyone agrees we need investment in the team but we didnt have a massive anti feeling after the 2 defeats v united and bolton (sorry forgot sam was in charge!!) give this set up a chance judge them after they spend some money ,remember we support the team thru thick and thin , didnt agree with the sacking ,but the same fans in the bbe slagging them at present are the same fans giving sam boom boom treatment for his football.