[Archived] Time for 4-4-2?

[joey_big_nose]

Realistically I can't see how we can play 442 against any of the big teams or away at mid table teams. We concede possession so much we need the cover and solidarity of the five across midfield to break up play. I would be very nervous going to Newcastle, say, with a 442 as we would be very exposed through the middle.

Only games I can see us going more attacking are home against midtable teams - so maybe 12 games out of 38. The other 26 pretty much have to be five in the middle in whatever configuration to contain the other teams.

As an aside - the defensive formations is a trend with football as a whole. Two strikers up front is being slowly wiped out mainly by the phenomenal athleticism of the top players where the wide players are both wingers and strikers. Problem for us is our midfielders lack the technique and athleticism to play the attacking 4231 that well. We are very badly set up personnel wise to cope with how the game is developing. Stoke, Sunderland etc are adapting better, mainly due to having the funds to buy the key players with the right qualities.

ps. Another very worrying thing is that clearly everyone has figured out we are putting seven or eight players up for set pieces and exploiting that. We look so vulnerable on the counter attack. This needs to be addressed somehow. Liverpool could have scored three on Sunday straight from a Rovers corner/free kick.

[Kelbo]

Realistically I can't see how we can play 442 against any of the big teams or away at mid table teams. We concede possession so much we need the cover and solidarity of the five across midfield to break up play. I would be very nervous going to Newcastle, say, with a 442 as we would be very exposed through the middle.

Only games I can see us going more attacking are home against midtable teams - so maybe 12 games out of 38. The other 26 pretty much have to be five in the middle in whatever configuration to contain the other teams.

As an aside - the defensive formations is a trend with football as a whole. Two strikers up front is being slowly wiped out mainly by the phenomenal athleticism of the top players where the wide players are both wingers and strikers. Problem for us is our midfielders lack the technique and athleticism to play the attacking 4231 that well. We are very badly set up personnel wise to cope with how the game is developing. Stoke, Sunderland etc are adapting better, mainly due to having the funds to buy the key players with the right qualities.

ps. Another very worrying thing is that clearly everyone has figured out we are putting seven or eight players up for set pieces and exploiting that. We look so vulnerable on the counter attack. This needs to be addressed somehow. Liverpool could have scored three on Sunday straight from a Rovers corner/free kick.

Great post, look how quickly Reina got the ball out to feet as soon as he collected the ball, we are open for that every time, Villa exposed it, Liverpool exposed it and so will everyone else, we are now too predictable!

[Miker]

I like the 4-2-3-1 formation or the 4-5-1 switching to 4-3-3 on the attack.

What's bizarre is that Sam has gone on record as saying that he's trying to get the team to play that system, 4-5-1 while defending, 4-3-3 while attacking, but it seems we've been stuck in a very deep 4-5-1 the entire time.

We have the potential to be a very good team and we showed that at the latter part of last season. We just need to mix it around a lot more than we have done lately. The thing about our team is that we ARE a threat at set pieces, it's a massive advantage for us. We need to continue winning the set pieces that make us such a threat to teams, but what we need to work on is having the full backs and wingers support our attacker at all times, rather than leaving him isolated. What we also need to work on is controlling possession in the same way we did against Liverpool in the last 20-30 minutes or so, especially when we have the lead.

We need a strong midfield base to support our defenders and control possession. I'd like to see us play a 4-2-3-1 formation with the following players:

----------Robinson----------

Salgado-Samba-Nelsen-Olsson

-----Jones-----Grella-----

---EDiouf---Dunn---MDiouf/Hoilett

----------Benjani----------

Jones and Grella are our only two players we have that can play effectively in that defensive midfield position. Grella as the destroyer and Jones playing more of a box-to-box role. Dunn, EH Diouf and M Diouf/Hoilett are our most creative players and really need to make things happen in the opposition half and support Benjani.

Olsson is probably better as a winger, but I do feel we need someone more attacking and mobile than Givet at left back.

I feel the team I have selected above is the best team we have at our disposal currently and it shows where our weakness lies. Jones and Grella is our best midfield pairing, yet neither are particularly brilliant in that role. If Dunn isn't fit or out of form than that position is a huge weakness as well. Benjani is decent, but we could do a lot better, and will need to long-term. Olsson may still prove to be a good quality left back, but that position should be considered a weak spot as well.

We have no issues in central defence, in goal, at right back or on the wings, but we still need 5 positions to strengthen to become a serious team that can actually challenge for Europe rather than fight against relegation or for a mid-table finish.

[Amo]

If we were going to keep with the 4-5-1 (or a flexible variant), how about something like this?

Nzonzi - Grella

Hoilett - E. Diouf - Olsson

Kalinic

The two holding midfielders could vary. Linganzi or Goulon could stake a claim yet.

Hoilett & Olsson would give us width and pace.

Diouf could play a free-role of sorts, bringing others into play and winning set-pieces. Dunn looks knackered in that role atm... well, he looks knackered full stop.

As with all formations and systems, patience is required. They might not hit it off straight away but it's certainly an idea worth thinking about.

[K-Hod]

IMO if David Dunn is fit (obviously a considerably large IF), he has to play. He's our best player by far and worth his weight in gold when he is fit. The style of play is different and we do look to get the ball down and play a bit (in the main).

[Amo]

I'm tired of pinning our hopes on Dunn and watching him lumber around. We might as well play with 10 men.

[K-Hod]

The problem is, whilst we don't have a player anywhere near his class as they, along with good goalscoring strikers cost the most money.

Plus, the fact that he is home-grown means there is far too much sentiment attached to the mere subject of David Dunn.

All things considered, if he can re-create some of the form he showed for large parts of last season he will once again be invaluable.

[MarkBRFC71]

Realistically I can't see how we can play 442 against any of the big teams or away at mid table teams. We concede possession so much we need the cover and solidarity of the five across midfield to break up play. I would be very nervous going to Newcastle, say, with a 442 as we would be very exposed through the middle.

Only games I can see us going more attacking are home against midtable teams - so maybe 12 games out of 38. The other 26 pretty much have to be five in the middle in whatever configuration to contain the other teams.

We're in a bit of a quandary as I see it.

The way BFS employs the 4-5-1 means we are constantly under pressure, and we concede possession pretty much all the time. We lump it forward towards Niko battling against 4 defenders (a losing battle), completely bypass midfield who don't/can't get forward quick enough even if Niko does win it, and the ball inevitably ends up with the opposition and we're straight back under pressure. If we win it back, the cycle starts again.

So there are two ways forward for me; (1) if Sam is adamant that long-ball, bypassing-midfield football is the way forward - then 4-4-2 makes miles more sense if only by virtue of the fact that 2v4 is doubling the chance of a 'hoof' being won by one of our strikers, or (2) we persist with 4-5-1 and start to play through the midfield, slowing play down to suit our lack of pace. This would allow the midfielders to get forward with the ball, and provide support to Niko.

Seems simple to me - something has to change as to continue playing the way we are now will take us down.